Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

After posting in a thread earlier about a navy recruiter who wanted to share his opinion on his job, and it turned into a mud slinging match against the US military, I felt like there should be a place for all the slingers to get their shots in.

The United States Military is not always popular, but it is necessary, unless you want it spelled Amerika. You see, other people from other countries risk their lives to come here. So maybe it ain't such a bad place. I kind of like it. The Millitary is made up of people from all walks of life. Some are spoild brats who stopped getting handouts from mommy and daddy. Some are poor kids from the hood who wanted to get out of that life style. Some are normal people from the suburbs and country who realy had no idea what to do with their lives so they joined. Not too many of the ones I met were at all interested in war. Just wanted to be in the military and server their country. War happens, and when you take that oath, you are painfully aware that you may have to go. I don't think too many people are into killing others for fun. Granted there are some and I know one. He is quite unstable, but I am glad he is on my side.

A little history. When troops came back from Viet Nam (a very unpopular war) they were treated really bad. Treated way worse than most dogs. We as a country seemed to have grown out of that dumbass mentality, or so I thought. Did all the returning soldiers kill innocent children? no. Did they come home and turn into crazed killers? no. They came home and a lot of them tried to hide from the stupid ones here. (there were a lot of them) Most of the Vietnam Vets I know are normal folks and don't bring up the war if at all possible. I respect them a great deal because I actually learned the history of what they endured while over there.

Now when you are spouting really ignorant garbage about how they are mindless drones working for rich people and nothing but hired killers, I want you to ask your self a question.
If they did't enlist and there was no military, who would make sure another country didn't decide to take YOUR stuff? Would you personally stand up and try to stop them? Would you ask for help from your neighbors? Would you form an organized group and fight the enemy away? Or would you roll over, curl up into a ball and hope they didn't hurt you too bad? Be careful how you answer. You might start an army.

The ones here who would spit on a soldier simply because they don't like the Government are the ones who would curl up. They are the weak. They are the talkers in a world full of doers. If you want to vent and tell me how evil the Navy recruiter is, or how evil the SSgt in the Army is because he/she had the guts to enlist in the service of the great USA to protect freedom, go ahead. I will listen. I will use every muscle in my body to restrain myself from actually vomiting on you as you spew hate. Yes they are protecting your freedom. Maybe you don't think we should have gone to Iraq. Me neither. But we did, and they (I) did what was ordered of me, and would again in a second if I was needed. I don't care that you don't like the idea. It was not my job to care about your feelings. I was my job to care about your freedom. So when you spew the hate, think about the (no military) aspect. Think about a band of bullys with guns walking up to you and taking that Twinkie right out of your hand. Think about how nice it is that you will never have to worry about answering that question for real because of a soldier.

"The soldiers who protect America" huh?

Let me explain to you why there's a big difference between the treatment of Vietnam vets, and vets today.

The draft. Two words, explains it all.

The treatment the Vietnam vets received was atrocious, in great part because they had no say in whether they wanted to go to the jungle or not. They got a yellow card in the mail, and off they went. Or they went to jail. Their choice - not much of a choice, is it? Also, you might want to note that a large portion of their poor treatment came from the sort of people who are now waving flags and screeching "support the troops" - then, as now, these people didn't support the troops, but instead supported the war, and when the Vietnam vets came back without a victory, they caught hell for it.

Now let's look at the modern military. It's a volunteer force. You have to make a conscious decision that you want to be in the armed forces to get in today. You sign the papers, get a contract deal, it's a job. The big difference is, the point of any military is to kill people. And here you are, volunteering to do just that.

Vietnam was no threat to the US (neither was Cambodia for that matter). Iraq and Afghanistan were not, either. These are all colonial wars of dominance and conquest, entirely optional, fought for the benefit of business lobbies that control Washington. None of these actions were in defense of our country (and considering the casualties of Vietnam, or the rise in terrorism due to Afghanistan / iraq, actually killed more Americans and made us less safe)

If you're volunteering to be a conquistador, you deserve all the slings and arrows that may come your way.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

Great post,and i agree. My grandpa who recently passed away was in vietnam. i respect him and what he did for this country. i have good friend in Iraq right now and i respect him for what he is doing though i do not agree with the war at all. Thank you to all the men and women who put there life on the line for our freedom. It just makes me sick how some people treat our soldiers...





PEACE!!!

Originally posted by network dude

The United States Military is not always popular, but it is necessary, unless you want it spelled Amerika.

No need to go further than that. Star & flag.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
If you're volunteering to be a conquistador, you deserve all the slings and arrows that may come your way.

That's funny. I was talking to some Airmen in my section and we brought this up. You know, any person out there that decides to exercise their freedom of speech by calling one of us a baby killer or whatever the catchphrase of the anti-war crowd is.

One kid said, "Well, that's their right, and they are allowed to exercise it. Just as I can exercise mine by busting the teeth out of their head. Both have their consequences."

Iraq was not about protecting us and neither will Iran be.

The problem is, that the solders are going to be used not to protect the people from outside threats, but to protect the government from the people. There are already troops here to do just that.

Oh and to make the rich boys in government lots mo money.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


so by your logic, we should not have a well trained Military, we should wait until we have to draft a bunch of kids into a situation they don't want. Got it.
Please comment on the question in the OP. What would you do if there was nobody to protect you?

I am not arguing that war is good. No war that has happened has been an overwhelming success, unless you judge success by how many people die. If I had my way, the ones who wanted a war would go to a cage match pay per view event and fight to the death. The soldiers would be there for security and to sell soda, and popcorn. It ain't up to me.

I'm curious as to how a solder protects our freedom now days.

If a person enlists to go fight a war for our tyrannical government knowing that each time we invade a country that same government has another excuse to shred the constitution a little more and enact more laws to steal more of our freedoms... How is that fighting for freedom?

It is in fact doing the very opposite.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by Sundancer]

A lot of people exercise rights they have not paid for, and thats fine...not putting anyone down for their beliefs or level of service to the country...but to call us baby killers or paid killers for the govt..not fair, not right...some of us have felt a call to honor as it were...I could have gone to college, woldn't have been Harvard..but local and would have earned a degree...I chose like my father and his father and brother to serve my country in the military...I'm 46 now and back in school to earn that degree I didnt get when I was 19...

And I don't regret for one second serving when I was younger and deferring my ambitions till a later date...turns out it didnt hurt me at all..I learned electronics/computing in the NAV..and it has served me very well as a career.

Like any other large group of human beings, you're going to have good decent people with the best of intentions, and then you're going to have a few "others".

I've got a lot of experience with both. I live within a stones throw of one of the larger Army bases, and could hit my local Air Force base with a slingshot.

That in mind, I've had many soldiers come and go as neighbors. Many are quite respectful. Many of the rental houses however, become glorified frat houses with frequent disturbances, and the police being called to calm things down at 3AM on a Wednesday is quite common.

Contrarily, the enlisted patriot currently living right next door is the best neighbor imaginable. The guy across the street however, let his kids go two weeks without bathing because he couldn't figure out how to light the pilot light on his water heater. It was extinguished when he and his buddies knocked the water heater over during a party. A party during which a gun was fired into my living room window. A party during which two teenage girls were hospitalized after being beaten. The same soldier would go on and on about how he can't wait to go back to Iraq because he misses the misty cloud of blood that results when the enemy is shot. He's convinced he's "getting back at the Iraqis for 9/11". This man has been dishonorably discharged from the Army.

These are the types of people the mud slingers in the other thread are talking about. What they fail to understand though, is that most other soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines despise these people as much as we do. Per capita, there are more people like this in the general population than in the military, and certainly a few are likely to end up in the military. They, however, are seen as a dishonor to their fellow troops, and are doing nothing to "protect America".

So, to answer your question, I would say no. The soldiers who are protecting America are not bad, because the "bad" ones aren't protecting America, rather they're living out their childhood G.I. Joe fantasies and their self-image of being superior human beings to the rest of us stems from a buried inferiority complex.

People need to keep in mind that there are "bad" lawyers, "bad" doctors, "bad" IT professionals, "bad" salesmen, "bad" cops, "bad" plumbers, "bad" electricians, "bad" grocery sackers so on and so forth. Any employer the size of the US Military is going to end up hiring a few bad apples. Trust me, these are people that the rest of the military wants rid of as well. They don't want to trust their lives to a guy who gets his jollies torturing puppies, and when these dysfunctional personalities are identified, they're promptly relieved of duty and sent packing.

Great thread!!! Of course those who serve our country are not 'bad'. Some do it because they wish to serve their country, some do it because they need a job, some do it to help pay for college. No matter what the reason is, they are there to protect us and to ensure our freedom, as those who came before them have, whether volunteers or those who were drafted. Many have paid the ultimate price for our freedom. Remember, freedom isn't free, and they are the ones who pay. Even if you don't agree with what they are ordered to do, you should respect those who chose to do it. "Don't hate the player, hate the game!"

Originally posted by network dude


Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

First of all i have nothing against any military personnel at all.
I think they're extremely brave and they make huge sacrifices in the name of some pretty strange causes.



See to me.... there is a difference between "protecting" a country.... and invading one.

If America (or any country) were being attacked then protecting the country would be the right thing to do.
However, the wars that the US and the UK have involved themselves in recently have had very little to do with "protection" and more to do with money, resources and appeasement.

I obviously don't blame the soldiers but i DO blame the government.
Many young people have died pointlessly, both soldiers and innocent civilians in wars that really didn't need to happen.

The situations and nature of war in general do some pretty nasty things and affect people in many ways.
Horrid things happen during war..... so some soldiers may do bad things.... doesn't make them bad people.

So no....is the answer.
I don't think the soldiers are bad.

It's the lying and disgusting government who are responsible for anything that has happened in these wars in the middle east.

reply to post by Sundancer


I can see that you would rather not answer my question, since it would actually answer yours. IF there were no military, no soldiers, no airman, no marines, what would be their deterrent to stop Chavez from coming here and turning everything into a citgo? Or turning your wife into one of his concubines? Or turning you into a slave? Not to pick on Chavez, I am sure he is a real nice guy. Sean Penn like the hell out of him. What about Kim over in NK. Do you think he would like to come over here and bitch slap you? He would have to stand on a chair, but he would love the oportunity. He won't get it though. He doesn't have any way to enter the country. There are too many soldiers here protecting your freakin freedom!!!! Yes Virngina, there is a stateside armed force. Now, what were you saying?

Why do the mud-slingers have to be so judgmental? Not everyone sees the world through the same lens. Many of the troops truly feel they're working for a noble cause, and they've never viewed themselves as working for evil entities.

Try puttting yourself in their shoes for once. Too many of the mud-slingers feel they are so enlightened but can't even show the least bit of empathy. It's that kind of mentality that breeds conflict and makes a military necessary.

reply to post by killuminati2012


amen brother. You have said a lot with a few words.
Thanks.

Soldiers don't really get much of an option as to what wars they have to fight in, they have to go where we send them.

If you're opposed to a war, blame the idiots that got us into it, not the soldiers that have to go fight in it.

Blaming soldiers for wars is kind of like blaming trees for forest fires...

reply to post by killuminati2012


I concur with Network Dude, A-FRAKKIN'-MEN!!!! Another thing to consider is that those in the military do not get to choose which orders to follow and which ones to dismiss, less they end up in Leavenworth or with a Bad Conduct Discharge, making it damn hard to get a good job in the civilian world. As my BM1 used to tell us when we would grumble, "We are here to defend democracy, not practice it!" Once you join the military, you do what you're told, when you're told and how you're told to do it! PERIOD!!! If not, you face legal consequences! Do you face the possiblility of jail time if you go tell your boss to go frak himself???

As I said in the other thread. If you want to make the claim they are fighting for our freedoms, then we should first establish if it is a fact that they are actually fighting for them.

The way we treat actual threats is by diplomatic means. Russia, China, N.Korea and so forth. All the actual claims made about Saddam we have cases where others are much worse. What is the difference? Those countries are actually threats. Because they are threats, then we treat them differently. This is a fact you can not get around.

As Jesus says, what king does not weigh his odds before going to battle and compromises if he knows he can't win? He was actually using that as an example to express understanding towards something else(being a disciple), because it is such a known fact.

If they are fighting to protect my freedom, then why am I losing so much freedom? The same people who claim I am hated for my freedoms and that we must do these things ended up being the same ones who took away my freedoms. And not just little freedoms, big basic rights like habeous corpus.

If I actually believed they were fighting for my freedom, then I could perhaps be a bit more understanding. I still think war is wrong, and would rather die myself than kill another. But even your own "reasons" actually turn out to be a lie.

And you can't use that "haven't paid for it" crap on me. I did serve, and every male in my direct family has served since atleast before WW2, outside my youngest brothers. I'm also not a liberal, so can't use that old catch phrase either.

It's easy to say they are fighting for my freedoms. Prove it. It's easy to saying they are protecting us, but prove it. You know what protected the US from Japan in WW2? The armed public.

Where was the military protecting my freedom when they did away with basic rights? WHERE?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by killuminati2012

 

I concur with Network Dude, A-FRAKKIN'-MEN!!!! Another thing to consider is that those in the military do not get to choose which orders to follow and which ones to dismiss, less they end up in Leavenworth or with a Bad Conduct Discharge, making it damn hard to get a good job in the civilian world. As my BM1 used to tell us when we would grumble, "We are here to defend democracy, not practice it!" Once you join the military, you do what you're told, when you're told and how you're told to do it! PERIOD!!! If not, you face legal consequences! Do you face the possiblility of jail time if you go tell your boss to go frak himself???

It's one thing to be stuck in a situation where you have to follow orders or have your life ruined. It's a completely different situation when you try to justify and support those orders.

There is a difference. I can't blame people who got stuck in a bad situation. Those who put them there are at fault. But I will most certainly blame those who try to justify and stick up for those orders. That was a choice they made.



[edit on 19-6-2009 by badmedia]