I am a Military Recruiter and would like to clear up some misconceptions.

reply to post by donhuangenaro


That was beautiful

reply to post by Cool Breeze


Point taken but you cannot compare a mechanics to the military. "did you order that code red on that sedan?! did you?! did you!
They are kinda structured a little differently.

I didn't pay attention and had no idea what the ASVAB(sic?) was for when I took it in highschool, so unlike pretty much everyone else I actually tried to do well.

I did way too well; I'm sure they were full of crap, but recruiters kept calling and telling me that my score was in the top 2% for the entire country, and qualified me to enlist directly in a nuclear physics program. What the hell? I got the feeling they will say about anything to get you to enlist. They called constantly, tried to meet with me at my school and wouldn't take no for an answer, came to my house unannounced, etc.

My experience with recruiters from all branches harassing me and my family for months afterward ensured that I would never join the military.

But, to be fair - I guess that trying on their test gives the impression that you are at least passively interested in enlisting.

edit - btw I am definitely NOT nuclear physicist smart, I can barely even spell it, they were straight up full of crap - but I heard this exact same line from multiple branches!

[edit on 19-6-2009 by maus80]

reply to post by Ridhya


Ok, yes I understand about a draft is when people are needed anyways ~ but it just seems better to have enough, well-trained, 'willing' people who are ready, rather than forcing people at a moments notice (who don't want to fight) into a situation they may just run away from.

So only a 'reserve' military to protect the homeland but not go to other countries. Hmm, would that work? (These things are hard to conceive because there can be such fine lines in a situation). Are there no instances where leaving homeland is for the better, such as fighting the enemy before they reach our soil? What about assisting a fellow country being attacked?

Yes, pressure recruiting isn't right and shouldn't exist. (I've seen cops do the same thing).

I have seen some material about war creating profit... it most certainly is frustrating. Seeing vids such as Zeitgeist Addendum and 9/11 Ripple Effect is where my eyes first started opening up to that stuff.

I guess the big question is, how do we get the whole world to agree to putting all the weapons down... (and not quickly pick them back up as soon as we turn our backs?)

Thanks for all the detail you went into.

Oh ~ I forgot to say that when I mentioned missiles, I just meant in the way of air strikes and not anything like a nuke blowing us up to smithereens. At that point it's pretty much game over for everyone anyways.


[edit on 19-6-2009 by misfitoy]

Thanks OP for the post..

It takes some thick skin on a site like this, where people will come at you from all sides, bringing very well thought out arguments. I enjoyed reading most of the thread- even the posts that I didn't really agree with.

I suggest you take what the 'opposition' has said here and use it in a positive way.. use it to look at the pitfalls and do what you can to make a change for the better (in general, that wasn't pointed at you).

Now, a general reply to the basic conversation of the thread:

Are some potential recruits naive? Of course.. who isn't to some degree at some time?

Do some recruiters lie? Sure.. but it has been pointed out that it isn't the norm. Do some mislead? You tell me a line of business that doesn't use misleading tactics. Thus, is the way of the world. I venture to say that the military is to a higher standard.

Are service members those that have low IQs.. not very smart? Some I would say are not the smartest.. but that doesn't make them incapable of service- and again, you have those that aren't that smart in all walks.. you also have some of the smartest. It's balance.

A final note: Those that bash service members as a group have already lost the argument. Are there some bad seeds? Yes. Your point? I'm waiting..

Our military has been in some hard spots in our history. As a whole, they deserve our respect. Many have given their lives. If you don't believe in the cause that they were fighting for, then be decent and don't bash those that can't defend themselves. With or without your knowing- some of you do this, at least in my eyes.

Bottom line.. Our military service in this country is on a volunteer basis. Bottom line.. People know what a military is for, it isn't about college education. Most everyone that signs up knows that.. those that don't, should. It isn't a recruiters fault for that.

Originally posted by Exoviewer
But they are only pawns with a retirement plan at the end of the day.

UM no they are human beings, (1) and (2) most agree killing is wrong, but war is war and it is what it is so the one's who provide support are just as "guilty" in your opinion I assume, and if so please tell us how that makes any sense at all.

Originally posted by Exoviewer
reply to post by Seyana

 

I hear what you say, but put it in context. He posts on a CONSPIRACY website. What was he expecting?, roses to be thrown at his feet, have people's respect for what he chose to do with his life? I fully understand that he is a regular guy. We're all regular guys. The military is FULL of regular guys! I'm not criticizing his home life or who he is outside of "work" It's his Job which quite frankly sh**ts me. Adding to the inevitable future death toll everytime he signs a person up, regardless that they are volenteering. It's like death ticking off names at the gates of hell or something. Respectfully

This makes no sense, how is he contributing at all to anybody's death, he or any recuiter may be an instrument to that wich enables one's death but [they] choose to sign the papers and raise their hand, the recuiters don't force them.

my opinion is if you don't like apples then don't eat them

There was some valid points made, regarding the recruiter's avatar. The choice of avatar for Juston (even his name betrays his actions... ALWAYS ON=aggressive) didn't occur in a vacuum. He chose an avatar that in some way resonated with himself.

SlayerWiki - " The band's lyrics and album art, which cover topics such as death, deviants, genocide, insanity, Nazism, necrophilia, religion, Satanism, serial killers, suicide, and warfare"

Juston, your'e always "on" because your unwavering integrity to your cultural/military programming goes against basic human decency. This creates a constant dialectic running in your mind; regret over your heinous actions pressed against a raging anger against yourself, which you direct against others.

I pity the day that you cant escape your shame through aggression. You'll go from justON to justOFF in a flash.

But why's a military recruiter coming on ATS anyway, just to defend himself and his colleagues. Is this type of thing encouraged in the military to go on websites and defend a position I have rarely seen attacked on ATS anyway.

people on this website are smart enough to know whether a career in the armed services is for them or not. Considering the sites called Above Top Secret, I wouldn't imagine the military is looking for people who visit these sites. looking more for the guy who's just been layed off, or graduates with no jobs available.

reply to post by misfitoy

No problem!
Let me answer your other questions

1. I completely agree, a well-trained military that is ready at any moment, is necessary, I just meant the Reserve system, is ideal, as in 'demilitarised nation' type thing. Like, during WWII America had what, 1-5 million full-time soldat! And after that they demilitarised so there were far fewer, still many, but far fewer. Cost faaaar far less. What I am trying to stress is: we need defensive troops. If we need to defend an ally away from home, then we will, but we cant be the invaders!!

The reserves still train and are 'at the ready', they just do not have to fight on the whim of a politician! Thus they cannot be used to assault!

I said 'reserves' because I can think of no other equivalent to what I mean, that currently exists today. Full-time military: meant to fight and go overseas, if Mr. Pres wants war-industry money they have to do what he says. Reserves: for defence: but will go overseas when absolutely necessary.
Let me know if I need to clarify even more my english can be unclear sometimes

2. We could have easily got everyone to put down their weapons years ago but we are conditioned to hate each other by higher ups who have something to gain, like money, power, influence, prestige, etc. We in the west watch all the time on tv and movies how evil Arabs are, guilty by association! How different Islam is, in fact it took me a Muslim friend in high school to show me that stereotypes are wrong! Over there they see propaganda of 'the great Satan' and sins we commit over here, like sexualised magazine photos everywhere and such. Countless places in the world depict America as a country of Nazis basically. Russians in movies are evil Commies!(Capitalist Pig!) The French are stuck-up snobs! Christians are bible-thumpers! Atheists are stupid satanists! Everywhere has an opinion of people they have never met or do not understand!

Add to this people convincing us war is necessary, 'the only thing the enemy knows is violence', dehumanisation! They tell us that opponents are subhuman, warmongers so that we will feel content in picking up these weapons in the first place.

And finally, poverty, the single greatest cause of ideology war! Why do you think Africa is so wartorn? What else do they know? Children grow up seeing people die, family starving, the whole world not caring! When you are in those desperate situations, mindnumbing combat is the only thing that makes sense. Believe me.

So the only thing that would get everyone to drop their weapons, is to make everyone realise how futile it is, and have EVERYONE do it! So I agree, it is idealism, not realism, but still possible, if only the assholes running the world werent so greedy *sigh*

3. I figured you meant missile and not nuke, but same answer, 'conventional' bombs cause just as much structural damage as nukes, look at the firebombing of Japan, or Dresden(Germany), the recent demolishing of Gaza, or personally, Chechnya, the hellhole, buildings crush just as easily with kinetic energy as with atomic energy.

Good talking to you

Well ivr some very valid opinions and some so fardetched its disgusting we I am currently employed by the us army I've been deployed as part of the surge been blown up shot at watched close friends die and taken a few lives things I'm not proud of happened there but regret not a moment of it recruiters aren't really liars they do however don't give you the full rundown of normal military life most of the time your pretty miserable cleaning windows pickin up trash and doing rigourous physical training If your combat arms like myself but it has its upsides I'm no longer a social degenerate that I was I've almost completed my bachelors in four yrs of service I've got quality friends that I'd give my life for and they'd do the same for me the people we work for are the issue that we soldiers get the bad rap from we signed a contract saying wed follow the orders we are given and someone posted about the innocents being killed my bestman at my wedding was innocent and his hummv was blown 35ft in the air we were barely in country two months I personally disagree with the war but orders are orders so everytime I'm sent off ill do my job and take any life that gets in the way of me comin home we don't always like are job but we chose it no one else

reply to post by Ridhya


Ah, I see. So 'invasion' is a main issue because it's something we shouldn't be doing anyways. (Agreed) And if you're not invading, but only defending, you generally don't need so many people in the military. (Understood).

Excellent points. Just unfortunately it remains that we will still always need 'some' military, along with the concern of do we have a strong enough military for whatever may come our way. These are tough times indeed.

Your comment about how futile war is reminds me of the movie WarGames where a computer learns, through the game of tic tac toe, that nobody wins.

Maybe one of these days, when our 'leaders' say it's time to go invade another land, the soldiers can all put down their weapons, turn around to look at them and say, "You go right on ahead... knock yourself out."

It's been a pleasure ~ thanks again for all your input.

reply to post by misfitoy

EXACTLY!!!
Invasion - the aggressor - if you were to stab someone, even pre-emptively, you'd go to prison! War should be no different! But self-defence is passive, ie. only when you are attacked.

Yup, we will always need defence, and arms-race so that we are better than the enemy. But I think Dr. Seuss said it best: The Butter Battle Book
Arms race can only end in total annihilation. As soon as nukes were invented, the world prematurely ended.

I completely agree with you. And I actually wish warfare was back to swords and arrows, back when leaders LEAD THEIR WARRIORS. Then we'll see politicians have to choose between wealth or their lives. If money, then the first casualties of the war would be two politicians shot in the back.
There is no guilt in killing by pressing a button - personally I feel guilt is God's way of telling you you did wrong! If you hacked a man to bits... you'd want to stop fighting immediately. Maybe then us humans can learn

Originally posted by tristar

Sure, the military is a trillion dollar industry were it employ's millions of people who in turn have family's who in turn either become CEO's or any other field of interest.

I know I'm only one example, but I have 3 friends that were marines, and just got back from Iraq not even a year ago. CEO's, ha, far from it. Try practically broke, with "dead end" jobs.

One lost his wife and his job. He does have his house he bought before leaving, and his dog, but lives in very small means. He also pretty much lost all connections with previous friends, after being gone for so long. Not to mention the depression and severe anger outbursts. He's a LOT more violent....

One was a friend from high school, albeit more an acquaintance. Talk about a cocky prick, yea. I have no interests in being a "friend" any more.

The other is a family member, way down the line. He's a lot older than me (I'm 23). He was some sort of special ops, and a demolition's expert. Some people close to him told me he did a lot of things that he still can't talk about to this day, or at least he won't talk about. They also told me that he was never the same after, and lives alone, and pretty much just doesn't talk to anyone that much. If you would meet him you would know what I'm talking about.

Anyways, just knowing these guys is enough too tell me it's definately not worth it, at all. The stress and depression after coming back is just remarkable. No way Sammy, not me. But I'm just one case, maybe others have different experiences.

The only recruiters I met were at my high school. They got the 2 guys I mentioned "sold" in less than 10 minutes. Could be their stupidity, or a kick azz sales pitch. Either way, he did his job very well.

(by the way, the guys I know were lower class, not poverty, but not wealthy at all. They were terrible in school, but had excellent common sense. Also very athletic. That's kinda always been my "picture" of what kind of people join the military...)

reply to post by Juston


I have to ask, is this what you had in mind when you started this thread?

I did 6 in the AF. I would have done 4 but my recruiter told me all about the great benefits of signing up for 6. I would get to be an e-3 right out of basic. I thought that was awesome. I would have people saluting me withing weeks! Then I found out that it meant nothing more than about $20 a month and after 8 months, everyone else was the same. But I don't regret my service at all. In fact, it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I went from being a self serving punk to a disciplined functioning member of society. I learned how to learn. That lesson will stay with you forever. I learned how to deal with people I could not stand. I also made a few life long friends. I got to see a lot of Saudi Arabia, some of Germany, had real good beer in Germany, and lots of places in the US. Most of it was fun, even the 12hr shifts 7 days a week during Desert Shield. Bottom line is my recruiter did not lie, but did embellish a few points. I don't blame him. And as I said, I would not change it for the world. Those that would spit on the military because they are mad at the government, need to look long and hard for their dignity. A soldier knows where his is.

Former squid myself. When I got out in 1999, the Navy was short and forcing people into recruiter positions. It was so bad my chief friend was trying to qualify bums up in LA. The quotas is what kills the personal morals of some recruiters and they result to withholding information and stretching the truth.

When I went in at 1993 I was 21 and extremely qualified in aviation. I had an FAA A&P license. I wanted aviation electronics. I tried the Air Force first and they said pick three things and we'll try to get you one. I couldn't believe it, I was more qualified than most people walking in their doors. I got up and went next door to the Navy and they had no problem offering me an avionics rate. I scored high enough on the ASVAB that they wanted me to switch to the nuclear field. But I wanted nothing to do with something that would make me glow in the dark. This is where the quotas come in. I was on delayed entry, my recruiter called me up and was all excited and told me he had an opening now and I could leave next week. Of course it was an undesignated billet and he tried to sell me that I could spend a couple years determining what job I would like to do. Thank God I turned him down. Undesignated sailors end up on "TAD" temporary assigned duty, cleaning heads, washing laundry, and working in the galley for two years.

So you can see this recruiter was interested in filling his quota now and didn't give a sh*t what would happen to me afterwards. But don't think I have a negative opinion of the Navy. I really enjoyed my time. the time at sea away from my kids was really hard and one of the reasons I got out. But honestly I wish I had stayed in and retired. Sitting behind the desk just doesn't provide the job satisfaction I use to have working on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by on_yur_6]

[edit on 19-6-2009 by on_yur_6]

reply to post by Karrotz


I take offense about your opinion of who joins the military. Basically you said it was dumb jocks. You sir are very wrong. The military has people from all walks of life. The make-up of individuals is so diverse that there really is nothing like it in the civilian world. You are forced together as a new family in the military. Once you are out everyone separates into their own groups again. In the military you'll be among the smartest and dumbest that society has to offer. You'll experience every type of ethnic background. When you are at sea or deployed overseas and you have nothing to do but talk, you'll learn a lot about people.

I joined because of my love for aviation and wanting to serve my country. I was 21, extremely athletic, and smart enough for the Navy to want me in the nuclear field. Your opinion of who joins the military is very wrong.

Here's my take on it...

When I had just made Sargent I was told to move up in the ranks I had to either do a turn at Recruiter duty or Become a DI (Boot Camp Drill instructor)

Anyway I thought it over and remembered how my Recruiter made all these pie in the sky promises that didn't ever happen, in fact remembering that made me so mad I hoped to someday run into that Recruiter just so I could choke him, as a reminder of who I was

So when it came to making that choice I went for DI, I figured it was the lesser of the two evils... besides that way I wouldn't have to worry about anyone wanting to choke me, or worse

So your military has become so undermanned that you need to impose a recruitment talk ATS boards towards US army recruiting people?

This should be handle like all other threads where some people are "selling" their books/dvd´s what ever, it should be deleted this thread.

Best regards.

Loke.:.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Juston

 

I have to ask, is this what you had in mind when you started this thread?

I did 6 in the AF. I would have done 4 but my recruiter told me all about the great benefits of signing up for 6. I would get to be an e-3 right out of basic. I thought that was awesome. I would have people saluting me withing weeks! Then I found out that it meant nothing more than about $20 a month and after 8 months, everyone else was the same. But I don't regret my service at all. In fact, it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I went from being a self serving punk to a disciplined functioning member of society. I learned how to learn. That lesson will stay with you forever. I learned how to deal with people I could not stand. I also made a few life long friends. I got to see a lot of Saudi Arabia, some of Germany, had real good beer in Germany, and lots of places in the US. Most of it was fun, even the 12hr shifts 7 days a week during Desert Shield. Bottom line is my recruiter did not lie, but did embellish a few points. I don't blame him. And as I said, I would not change it for the world. Those that would spit on the military because they are mad at the government, need to look long and hard for their dignity. A soldier knows where his is.

I whole heartedly agree with you. This is the typical experiences of most that enter the military. In 1968, my recruiter flat out told me there were no UH-1's being flown Vietnam so I signed up as a 67N20. Ahhhhhhh........

But my life is better for it and my experiences are much like those stated above.

And I believe that for every soldier holding a rifle, there are 10 support personnel backing him up.

Excellent post OP - S&F for the brow beating by the uninformed.