12-year-old to be sentenced for rape

Originally posted by Ridhya
OH MY GOD
rapture us NOW

Only 144.000 get to go "away" if you believe the threads on ATS, so what makes you so special?

Rape is the only unjustifiable act in the universe. Pure dispicable selfishness

So....torture, murder etc are all cool?? These are all justifiable acts but rape...nope?? That's just weird....

And this case I dont even know what to SAY

I do!!

Peace

yes he is in fact a rapist. but i think i speak for a lot of us when i say the reason why we believe him being 12 is such a major factor is because that's too young of an age to be given up on. He hasn't even fully matured yet. It's different for a kid that age who commits any crime. He did *SNIP* up on a major level, one that he can never go back on. But a lot of people later on regret things as they mature from adolescence into their adulthood. Because he's 12 there is a higher chance of this boy's redemption

Mod edit - censor circumvention please review.

[edit on 6/19/2009 by yeahright]

reply to post by operation mindcrime

First, I dont necessarily believe the rapture, as it is commonly described, will happen how 'they' say it will. And nowhere did I say I was special. Or that I would get away lol. I have sinned, I've never killed anyone but have come very close in my line of work...

Now allow me to expand your mind

Murder and torture are dispicable too. But justifiable.
A man takes a *suspected* terrorist, tortures him, because he thinks he will tell where the next bomb is planted!
Horrific? Yes!
Justifiable? In his eyes, it is absolute right thing to do.

An extremist becomes a suicide bomber, killing innocents.
Definitely horrific, but if he thinks God commanded him to kill sinners, who is he to argue with his God?

A man lusts after a woman and decides to rape her. Or maybe to get revenge on her. Scarring her for life, making her lose trust, afraid to walk alone, etc etc. How is that anything other than disgusting greed?

I meant the only act that can NEVER be justified!!!

OK, I'll stick by my statements in the other thread! I still think he should be killed! I know you will gasp and fein disgust, but assuming we know all the facts, and it was a true 'rape' of a child then he won't be rehabilitated.

What do we get if we don't kill him:
6 years in juvie to become meaner, jaded, and violent, then registering as a sex offender, ensuring he will never get a high paying job, or live in one place very long. Lifelong therapy that will more than likely just remind him of his urges, and introduce him to more people like himself. Probably end up back in prison after hurting more people, so we get to pay for his room, and board, and healthcare, and therapy, for the next 60 years or so! Or, he will get better, and he won't end up in prison, and we have a serial child rapist on the streets.

It is very sad that this happened to him at 12, but how dangerous is it to have this kid around other children?! It is a child rapists dream to have the access a 12 year old has!

Either it is genetic, and there is no cure, or it is environmental, and he won't be cured at home, or at juvie, so in essence there is no cure! Why throw good money at these people who will never contribute to society?

So, I still say, if they will never get out of prison, kill them quickly, and put the money saved to good use for the rest of society! And if anyone "rapes" my 4 yr old, I will kill them regardless of the situation. If it is a kid being a kid and looking up their skirt, or doing the normal experimentation fine, but if anybody violates or penetrates a child, they should die. And, I tend to agree with the other controversial poster, the term "child" is relative. So sex with a 12 year old is not always rape, and should not always be a crime. But physically forced rape is not relative! It is pretty clear cut, and should be punished swiftly and severely.

I would carry this even further to the "hazing" incidents of sodomy that we hear about sometimes! If it were my kid, and if a group of bigger boys sodomize a younger or smaller boy for the sake of joining a club, or team, or fraternity. The entire group that participated or stood by and allowed it, would be subject to my wrath!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
OK, I'll stick by my statements in the other thread! I still think he should be killed! I know you will gasp and fein disgust, but assuming we know all the facts, and it was a true 'rape' of a child then he won't be rehabilitated.

Firstly, I congratulate you for having the courage to state your opinion. Especially considering that you've not changed your mind and that you think this 12 year-old by should be executed.

I'm assuming here (and I may be wrong) that if you were asked to fire the bullet, that you would - correct?

In that case, the father of the 12 year-old boy would clearly see you as the person who murdered his child. You took his son away. You made sure that father would have to bury his child. Wouldn't the father then have the right to hunt you down and slay you for murdering his son?

Afterall, the 12 year-old raped a child. You went and killed a child.

Think about it.

reply to post by Ridhya

A man lusts after a woman and decides to rape her. Or maybe to get revenge on her. Scarring her for life, making her lose trust, afraid to walk alone, etc etc. How is that anything other than disgusting greed?

I totally understand your point here. Most bad people don't consider themselves bad. They justify what they are doing in some way. But a rapist can only justify it by making his victims into 'property.' A rapist has to completely remove the humanity from their victims. They have to feel that they are on a higher level than their victims, and that it is their "right" to take whatever they want, including the sanctity of the very body the other person lives in! With this removal of humanity, they can do whatever they like without guilt! That is a cruel and dangerous way to look at other human beings.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by getreadyalready
OK, I'll stick by my statements in the other thread! I still think he should be killed! I know you will gasp and fein disgust, but assuming we know all the facts, and it was a true 'rape' of a child then he won't be rehabilitated.

Firstly, I congratulate you for having the courage to state your opinion. Especially considering that you've not changed your mind and that you think this 12 year-old by should be executed.

I'm assuming here (and I may be wrong) that if you were asked to fire the bullet, that you would - correct?

In that case, the father of the 12 year-old boy would clearly see you as the person who murdered his child. You took his son away. You made sure that father would have to bury his child. Wouldn't the father then have the right to hunt you down and slay you for murdering his son?

Afterall, the 12 year-old raped a child. You went and killed a child.

Think about it.

That is a great point! You are correct that I would not mind carrying out the execution, but only if I were personally involved. I don't believe in anonymous executioners, or cold-blooded state sanctioned executions. I believe the father, mother, brother, or whoever takes responsibility for that child should have the right to justice. If they choose to spare the other person's life, and go the way of forgiveness, I respect that. I am not that evolved, and I would kill them!

The other father may seek revenge, and of course there are two different points of view, and it would be hard to fault him for wanting the killer of his child dead as well.

I justify it this way:

If his child was born bad, or genetically bad, it was necessary to cull him from the flock. He would never have served a purpose, or been rehabilitated, and the father needs to accept that. He was just wired wrong and it is a sad defect!

If the child was born normal, then something in his upbringing made him bad, and the father had a major role in that. Therefore the father should take his fair responsibility for the rape, and the execution. If he can't live with that, he is part of the problem, and may wind up just like his son!

reply to post by Ridhya


Hmmm, i really could not disagree more with you about what you have just stated but discussing that would be taking the OP's subject a little off topic....

A man lusts after a woman and decides to rape her.

and thus it is justified for him because he has feelings of lust.

Or maybe to get revenge on her.

And so it is justified in his mind because of feelings of revence.

Maybe you should start a thread about what you just said and see how many agree with you point of view.

Call the thread "Rape is the only unjustifiable act in the universe.", i'll be joining that one pretty quick. Because i get your point but i do not agree.

Peace and respect...

Wow, this kid is in serious need of help. To the poster not wanting to call the kid a rapist, that is what he is. He raped someone. Was it him acting out on what had been done to him? Possibly

To the poster stating that this is all a sexualized societies fault, rape is more about power than sex. We should all know that. Incidentally, in our "Sexually charged media blah blah blah" it's all about man on woman in advertising and the like, so explain why he didn't rape a four year old girl?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If his child was born bad, or genetically bad, it was necessary to cull him from the flock. He would never have served a purpose, or been rehabilitated, and the father needs to accept that. He was just wired wrong and it is a sad defect!

But the father would say that your genetics are screwy for wanting to kill a 12 year-old. So you need to be culled from the flock.

By killing children, you wouldn't serve much of a purpose either, with your faulty wiring. At least by killing you, the father is killing an adult and not a child. Remember, you're the child-killer that needs to be put-down.

(Note, I'm not insulting you - just raising a neutral point of view. No flames intended, thanks for the discussion.)

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I totally understand your point here. Most bad people don't consider themselves bad. They justify what they are doing in some way. But a rapist can only justify it by making his victims into 'property.' A rapist has to completely remove the humanity from their victims. They have to feel that they are on a higher level than their victims, and that it is their "right" to take whatever they want, including the sanctity of the very body the other person lives in! With this removal of humanity, they can do whatever they like without guilt! That is a cruel and dangerous way to look at other human beings.

You have just given an pretty good desciption of almost every goverment in the world.......

Peace

reply to post by Finn1916


but for anyone over 16 raping a 4 year old , the calls are for him/her to be exterminated and removed from the gene pool - so what does 3 years and 1 day make it any different?

reply to post by tezzajw

But the father would say that your genetics are screwy for wanting to kill a 12 year-old. So you need to be culled from the flock.

Thanks for the discussion, and not just flaming and spouting PC rhetoric!

The grieving father would be almost impossible to reason with, so I think the argument could go on forever, but I will state my position again anyway.

I never "wanted" to kill a 12 year old. I would be sick from it! But, I would serve two purposes that him and his child did not.

One, I would be removing a dangerous sicko from the population, whereas the rapist attacked an innocent 4 yr old.

Two, I would be busy raising children that were not rapists, which the other father was not too successful at!

I do not always blame the parents for faults of the children, but many times that is exactly the case. Who is to say the 12 yr old was not a victim of his own father? Or maybe it was just an absentee father, so the 12 yr old had no role model? Or maybe it was just some brain chemical that never formed? We don't know, but it is much easier to justify my position as an innocent victim seeking justice, than it is to justify the position of defending the rapist, and calling for leniency! I would hope the other father would eventually realize that, but if not, I would consider him part of the problem, and defend myself if needed.

reply to post by Harlequin


Life in prison would bar a far worse punishment than death. Especially for a teenager, or one about to be a teenager. That much structure would have driven me to the breaking point when i was a kid. couple that with always having to watch your back for fear of retribution for what you have done. Way more punishment than a little needle that we make sure they barely feel so they can go to sleep.

reply to post by Harlequin


Yet again an ATS thread that seems to amaze me more and more with every post....

Come on people, are we actually considering a harsh punishment for a 12 year old?? Why is nobody holding the parents of this kid accountable?? Why are we not looking at our selfs and the way we are allowing this to happen to our society??
We ,as a society, have created this little monster and when it goes wrong everybody is surprised. Take some responsibility!!

Ahhhhh forget it, lets fry the little bastard and be done with it. And lets fry every other man,woman or child that seems to show signs of collatoral damage caused by a society gone crazy.....

I say more sex and violence on tv and less education and responsible parenting. That should give us a lot of entertainment for the coming years....

I'm out, Peace

Originally posted by Applesandoranges
They make a sexualised society for the kids through tv programs, consumerism, media, magazines etc etc and then we blame the kids.
Farout im sick to death with sex being sold to kids let alone now understanding children committing sexual acts is beyond incredible and only going to show where society leads. This is proof enough sex is being sold to children, which leads to them experimenting. We will see more and more of these repercussions as children are still being sold sex.
Sick!

If the 12 year old actually forced a 4 year old into anal sex it was NOT because of television.

If it is as it sounds, it would be violent and painful and there would have been crying and blood involved.

Playing doctor may be a case of kids getting ideas from television. Violently raping litte humans that are less than half your size is NOT a product of an over-sexualized media.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


so i asked you

a 12 year old has raped a 4 year old and tried to rape a 3 year old


yet `he only 12 bless him , its the parents fault`


yet if he was 16 he would be executed for his paedophile crimes


so what makes 3 years and 1 day so much different?

what of those aged 12 (and younger) who murder?

reply to post by Finn1916


life in prison? life usually means 15 years or less - the 10 year old kilers of jamie bulger served 12 years , and where released at the age of 22 , given a stack of cash , new identiies and let on there way.

reply to post by tezzajw


Is he a paedophile? I would say no as he himself is a kid. However i would say he needs psycological help as he obviously isn't normal to rape a young child. He would need watching as he got older as well as there may be something very wrong with him.

However paedophilia is diagnosed as an attraction to pre pubesent children. Can we convict a child who is himself pre pubescent as a paedophile?

If we say he is a paedophile then if a 12 year old has sex with a 11 year old then they should both be convicted as paedophiles. However often they are only convicted of statuatory rape. Should we convict two 12 year olds who have sex as being paedophiles? Both of them?

A difficult case.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Ridhya
Rape is the only unjustifiable act in the universe. Pure dispicable selfishness
And this case I dont even know what to SAY

Actually rape is natural in the animal kingdom, and it happens across many species, including our own.

I guess it's an effective propagation technique.

Looks like your little "universe is a just place" theory fails.

Edit to add: Where is your messiah now? Muahahahhaahahah

[edit on 19-6-2009 by Kaytagg]