Torture, humiliation and good old American Fun

So I woke up this morning to a story and pictures no less of American troops humiliating and torturing their Iraqi's charges.

www.smh.com.au...

And I though to myself, what would all the America boosters say about this. Isolated incident, not a reflection of the force as a whole. etc. etc. etc.

Well there are a couple of good old saying at apply to this situation, one is "One bad apple spoils the bunch."

But with no oversight, no media attention, horrible living conditions (for the troops), I guess they have to have some fun somehow.

This is truly horrific, maybe more so than daisy cutters and shock and awe. At least that was done with a press of the button and maybe even a hope of limiting causalities and retribution. But this, what excuse is there?

Change the uniforms and victims and these pictures could have been from WWII with you know whose soldiers wearing the joyful faces.

And the excuse that the commanders "Had no idea" or "We'll look into it". Please! We'll see what becomes of those involved. I'm from the school of thought where the commander is ultimately responsible for what happens on his watch. But seeing as no one was reprimanded for 911 I don't expect much happening here.

So are they just Iraqi's terror-ists, that deserve this kind of treatment? Or are they human beings with, you know, "Inalienable rights" of are those just for Americans?

And if these men are eventually released (as most of the inturned are) won't they hold a grudge about their treatment and find the closest Terror-ist recuting centre?
I'd want some payback if I were treated in such a manner.


[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Thanatos]

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Thanatos]

Is it true that this story has recieved practically zero coverage in the US?

Seems to have hit the frontpage of most of the newspapers in the UK as well as across the world. How come the US papers aren't running it? Couldn't be [gasp]political censorship[/gasp] could it?

[EDIT]
www.guardian.co.uk...
article about the strange missing story in US papers
[/EDIT]

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by dom]

This had been everywhere (CNN, BBC, ect) online anyway. I don't watch tv. I did I miss it on ATSNN? Or another thread? Soldiers making the prisoners act out sex acts on each other, while the soldiers take pictures and cheer (among other things), seems like more people would be talking about it. Those soldeirs just erased any goodwill we may of gained in the middle east.

Interesting that is isn't listed in www.foxnews.com recent headlines but it is on CNN

Fair and Balanced my ___!

I guess the Fox spinsters are still figuring out how to present to their sheeple viewers.

It's on Fox HERE, but it did take some digging.

EDIT: I'm sorry, you said recent headlines. I thought you meant at all. On a related note, "Cheney Praises Fox News Channel
Vice President Calls Network 'More Accurate' Than Others" headline from the Washington Post.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by curme]

Its being covered plenty here in the UK and Tony blair has already made a statement on it,

Sky news was reporting that Cnn had the story but most of the USA breakfast shows would be covering it!

No 10 said the actions shown were in "direct contravention of all policy under which the coalition operates".

Also

The White House has also denounced the actions and said the United States "cannot tolerate" the alleged abuse of Iraqi detainees by US soldiers.

Heres the link to the skynews report,

www.sky.com...

These guys should be made to suffer the same humiliation and torture that they have inflicted on their prisoners.

Their actions have discredited their uniform and as such they should not be allowed to hide behind it.

I'm all for handing them over to the families of their Iraqi captives.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Leveller]

The pictures are awfull and i agree they should get into a lot of trouble over this,

But as for torture i think this is still being looked into,

Originally posted by Leveller
These guys should be made to suffer the same humiliation and torture that they have inflicted on their prisoners.

Their actions have discredited their uniform and as such they should not be allowed to hide behind it.

I'm all for handing them over to the families of their Iraqi captives.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Leveller]

I agree.

They should feed those soldiers to the lions.

The soldiers are saying it was the Army's fault for not training them properly on how to treat prisoners. Someone has to train you not to force out two male prisoners to act out homosexual sex acts, in front of a group of your fellow soldiers cheering and taking pictures? I don't see how we can possibly win hearts and minds afetr this.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by curme]

Thanks for the link to the Fox story, kinda wierd that you had to dig for it though. It's recent news it should be on the main page. Who digs for stories that they supposedly don't know exist. Classic reporting, but not reporting

In the BBC story they spoke about how CBS had this footage over 2 weeks ago and was 'asked' by the Penagon not to run with as due to the situation in Iraq. Not so on fox and cnn. No mention of this aspect of the story, which in my opinion is just as important as the story itself. Who lying or lying by ommission???

Only when the pictures started to circulate did they run the story. Good work CBS! (scarcasm) So if they didn't get out some other way I guess this story would still be sitting on a shelf at CBS?

No cencorship in America? PLEASE!!! Check out the internationl ratings for press freedom. America isn't even in the top 10.

www.rsf.fr...

17th place acording to these people, hmmmm, maybe you're not being told the whole story about Iraq amongst other things. And a lie by ommission is still a lie.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Thanatos]

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Thanatos]

This is pretty rediculous...I can definately see how after these iraqis get out of prison, they are probably going to be more hardcore anti-america than even the most extreme religous insurgents

The BBC said that the only paper in the US that covered it was the Baltimore Sun.

This is not unusual.A big but embarrassing story breaks and it's downplayed.The problem arises when there is some kind of consequence and the American people don't understand why it has happenned.The fact that it is on virtually every front page around the world should filter though.

I expect there are a number of Neo-Cons in the USA who probably think that CBS should not have published the pictures and I doubt the integrity of the US Television media to publish similar revelations in the future because of the embarrassment that this is bound to cause.

The story is on ATSNN but it has "WAR" designation.This designation for some reason doesn't put the story on the Headline page or link the story automatically to War on Terrorism forum.

To the author, yes the Iraqi men are human, yes it's disgusting what our troops did to them, and yes the Iraqi men (and other Middle-Eastern people) will hold a deadly grudge. Why are the American soldiers in queston such hypocrites? Why are PEOPLE such hypocrites? The thing that horrified me the most was the following: A man (wired with10+ electrodes) was told to stand on a box or else he would be electrocuted. Is it me, or does that kind of treatment sound EXACTLY like one of the reasons we wanted to take Saddam out in the first place? I think the AMerican soldiers have every right to be angry and vengeful about what happened on 9/11, but not when the anger manifests itself like this.

[half joking]Thats it, I'm moving to Sweeden or France.[/half joking]

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

www.washingtonpost.com... is now running it (not header story, but visible on frontpage)

www.nytimes.com... not visible on frontpage

Seems like the US media has suddenly woken up and decided to ignore the pentagon attempt at censorship... although I haven't seen any US news sources talking about that aspect yet.

I think the people involved should be thrown to Saddam Hussein.. He'd sort them out quick.
If I was presiding over the case, I would hand out no less than execution for the crimes they have committed, and full pardons for the Iraqis involved.

Originally posted by dom
Is it true that this story has received practically zero coverage in the US?

Seems to have hit the frontpage of most of the newspapers in the UK as well as across the world. How come the US papers aren't running it? Couldn't be [gasp]political censorship[/gasp] could it?

[EDIT]
www.guardian.co.uk...
article about the strange missing story in US papers
[/EDIT]

I just heard about it yesterday. It was hushed before that, I guess. If you all remember, it was just last January that some other GI's were court marshaled for snapping that prisoner's neck, among other abuses. It seems America rules the roost on sick mother f*ckers per populace.
Man, liberation sure is tough on people, eh? Saddam should be proud of the way we're running the show.

What do you suppose is going to happen when they release all these abused Iraqis from the prisons? They can't kill them all. If they didn't hate the US before, they sure will now.

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by Satyr]

Did they think they were going to get away with it?! I hope those 6 get hung out to dry. It sucks that the actions of 6 individuals could so effectivly give the other 136,994 troops a horrible name. Now everyone is going to be questioning if this kind of thing is taking place more often, but the soldiers are smart enough (although still pretty stupid) to not film it. I know I'll be wondering. @^$#@#$#
A GENERAL was in on this?! Al Jazeera reported there were possible jail terms. I think the general should be executed. He just shoveled a huge pile of # right into America's face.

As for the delay/lack of American media on this, I'd like to point out it was CBS who broke the story.

CBS News said it delayed the broadcast for two weeks after a request from the Pentagon due to the tensions in Iraq.

That was from Al Jazeera, too. In my opinion, I think that was the right choice to make, and I commend CBS for making it. Had this broken 2 weeks before, there would have been a much higher death toll in Falluja. However, I am glad the story was told, it had to be. These people who did this are sick, and they just gave a horrible name to every service man and woman out there doing their job they way they're supposed to.

To be fair I seriously doubt that the General was involved.She was just the commanding officer and as such has to take overall responsibility regardless.

As for holding on to the story for two weeks.

Well,you know,it isn't a big step to hold onto it for one month,or 6 months,or one year,or fifty years,or never.

It's still media censorship and it indicates that there is a great deal of information control going on.

136,994 troops in Iraq ???

Are you keeping a running total that you edit downwards on a daily basis?

Originally posted by Illmatic67
I agree.

They should feed those soldiers to the lions.

Yah...unfortunatly, it's considered cruel to do this nowaday...Those #in' human rights patriot... (j/k)