Time travelling

Oh and Seapeople, I used the term "real time" as another expression for "earth time" or "our time".
I know there is no such thing as a real time.

Originally posted by Jakko
Oh and Seapeople, I used the term "real time" as another expression for "earth time" or "our time".
I know there is no such thing as a real time.

I understand, just remember that time is relative only to the person observing it. So there is no "Our Time" either according to relativity. Just "My time" or "Your Time".

The consequences of everyone being in their own time though is not noticeable here on earth at our sizes and speeds.

Yeah I know, but when flying in an F16 gives a slight change in time allready, then at what speed would the difference become noticable...
Speed above the light-speed are possible like this, in theory you can go anywhere if your spaceship has enough power and supply fuel within an hour.
Of course it will be several years for people on earth, but for the folks in the aircraft it would only be a few days.
This thought is really weird though, that you could fly around the earth in lightspeed for several days, and then land again to see what the earth looks like in 500 years.
It's all possible...

Ok, got a qestion about time now...

we have two ships...... Both are outside of the earths gravitational pull, so there are no outside influences.

Ok, One ships goes around the earth at the speed of light in the same direction as the earths rotation.

The 2nd ship travels at the exact same speed, but counter to the earths rotation.

So, both ships are traveling at the speed of light but, are quite different in their speed according to the earths rotation. But, with no ouside influences they will age the same. But, when they land on earth afer 6 months, wouldn`t their times be different? Because according tot he rotation and the of course alot more things added in, the speed of light would actually be different.

Or am I just full of of?

hmmmm.....

Ah, my theory is finally complete! View it @:

xenophanes85.freeservers.com...

/E: Information being updated, click here instead:

xenophanes85.freeservers.com...

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

Originally posted by Jakko
Yeah I know, but when flying in an F16 gives a slight change in time allready, then at what speed would the difference become noticable...

Now that you can answer. Just plug in the numbers. You'll see that it actually does take a LOT of a change in Velocity before it starts making much difference. Once again, as others have already said. It is all Relative to YOU, so from where you sit, in your speedy ship racing through the cosmos, you won't notice it. Your watch on your wrist will still be keeping YOUR TIME just like always.

Here are the formulas for figuring out the degree of change:





BTW, check out this site for more info on this topic which is presented in a very easy to understand way. Also it has many examples of Real World Exampls like what you're talking about with the Jets and so forth.
www.btinternet.com...

We are the futures past and we are the past's future.

JC, the speed of light is that same in all frames of reference. Additional velocity does not apply to the speed of light.(i.e a truck travelling at 60kph with shing lights wont have the light going at c+60kph) - if thats what u mean, they would have the same times because they are both being measured relative to an earthling? AND their times wuold be the same because they are travelling at the same speed.

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
Ok, got a qestion about time now...

we have two ships...... Both are outside of the earths gravitational pull, so there are no outside influences.

Ok, One ships goes around the earth at the speed of light in the same direction as the earths rotation.

The 2nd ship travels at the exact same speed, but counter to the earths rotation.

So, both ships are traveling at the speed of light but, are quite different in their speed according to the earths rotation. But, with no ouside influences they will age the same. But, when they land on earth afer 6 months, wouldn`t their times be different? Because according tot he rotation and the of course alot more things added in, the speed of light would actually be different.

Or am I just full of of?

hmmmm.....

There is no difference until the ships land on the earth. Both ships have to switch to the earth-based reference frame, but the ship that counters the earth's rotation has to decrease in speed more. Acceleration also causes time dilation.

I think you need General Relativity to accurately solve the problem. If we accept infinite acceleration, special relativity can do something for us as well. You could draw Minkowski spacetime diagrams for both the cases.

The earths rotation and even the rotation around the sun are nothing compared to the speed of light.
The differences between the ships would hardly be noticable.
I didn't know accelaration also causes timeflow changes, that's pretty cool.

Originally posted by xenophanes85
Ah, my theory is finally complete! View it @:

xenophanes85.freeservers.com...

Travelling into the past is not possible...
You can only travel into the future.
Timeflow on your location can be slowed down, but it can not be stopped or reversed, let stand stop or reverse time for all objects around you.

Travelling into the past is not possible...

Not neccessarily. Its impossible according to the theory of relativity, but this is yet to be proven/disproved, and may well be expanded upon when more thorough research has been carried out.
There are other theories to consider too, like string theory, before dismissing the theoretical possibility of travelling back in time. Another development to consider is that in quantum mechanics, namely 'quantum entanglement', which suggests that not is backwards time travel possible, but the past is actually affected by the future.

Originally posted by Paul

Travelling into the past is not possible...

Not neccessarily. Its impossible according to the theory of relativity, but this is yet to be proven/disproved, and may well be expanded upon when more thorough research has been carried out.
There are other theories to consider too, like string theory, before dismissing the theoretical possibility of travelling back in time. Another development to consider is that in quantum mechanics, namely 'quantum entanglement', which suggests that not is backwards time travel possible, but the past is actually affected by the future.

Travelling to the past is a fairytale, just like being able to fly by drinking a magical drink is a fairytale.
It's not based on investigated evidence like travelling to the future is, and the theories that people have made about travelling to the past are based on peoples fantasy instead of logical thinking.
Of course it would be very cool if it was possible, just like it would be very cool if we would be able to fly by drinking a magic drink, but unfortunately it's not.

Another thing about relativity that you may want to know is that the closer you are to large body the slower time progresses. This was tested once by placing two finely tuned clocks at the top and bottom of a water tower. After 1 year the clock at the top of the water tower was just slightly faster than the one at the bottom.

This is best described by the twins paradox. One twin lives his entire life on top of a Mountain and the other at Sea level. When they meet late in life the twin from on top of the mountain ages more than the other.

How do you know it is not possible! It may have already occured, and we have no memory of it!!!

You guys keep pointing Einsteins special and Genaral relativity as the law of god.....I suggest you try to comprehend Quantum Mechanics! You might then get the point that "There are more things on heaven and earth that your philosophy could ever concieve"

Its always the same...it takes the average mases 40 years just to get a basic concept of relativity...and then you ignore the new advances in quantum theory...Non Locality...In space and time!!!! Why cant you guys get the picture...Once we can concieve it it will happen!!!!

Do you really bvelieve the the Blavk Ops projects are not toying around with concepts of time you could never understand!

Get an advanced degree in physics, and watch your comfortable little world VANISH.

Relativity is just the basic algebra of time theory, and fact!!! Read the works of David Deutsch.

wake up to the fact that our thoughts are a reflection of the universe!

We are all time travelers marching into the future.

Time travel at an accelerated rate relative to our own experience is possible by approaching the speed of light.

It is called "time dilation."

It looks like civilization is going to get screwed again, another experiment headed to archeological dust, despite all the computers meglomania and extreme greed will destroy everything but things of the extreme rich. Even that will pass.

So just keep going into the future with this space ship, until these human idiots get more political science than raw idiotic corporate pseudo science. It may take a billion or billions of years, watching one civilization after another go down the tubes of greed and stupidity, but finally I find one, it actually prints real money! After multiple generations of corporate assassins, they allow someone to invent and promote free energy! They actually have a Solari here or there. Finally enough people "get it," and stop giant corporations from poisoning everyone with aspartame, the meatrix, unsound pharmaceuticals and there is actual community policing and no black hooded NWO types. Gee whiz there aren't any jails anymore, someone got creative and gave them apartments and a job, just don't go out for a year or two after some mild reconditioning.

Should I stop here or keep on going forward for another look? It could be a trick, after all UFO aliens act like idiots socially, and think we are like cattle, why should the rule of thumb assuming no political science finally be wrong here?

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by SkipShipman]

Time travel to the past is impossible, for the following reasons:

1) if there is one universe, then there is the 'grandfather paradox'

2) if there are multiple universes, and the time traveller does not really go back to his own timeline, but back to another timeline, there are logistic problems about the change of energy of a universe (remember, energy can't be added to the universe or disappear from it), which version of the universe gets the time traveller, which one gets it back, etc.

3) Following Ocamm's razor, if time travel was possible, our place would literally be flooded with time travellers.

Quantum entanglement has nothing to do with time travel: it's something we don't know how to explain yet, but it seems that there is a connection to the spin of particles indepentent of the distance they are in.

Finally, if anyone insists that time travel to the past is possible, do a simple experiment: lock yourself in a room with a webcam, spreading the word through the internet about that you are waiting for a time travel. Eventually, if there are time travellers, they will appear to you.

Nobody can say what is possible and what isn't possible. No degree in advanced physics will give you any correctness or make you more correct than another person. We can only theorize about time travel and the logistics of time itself. Until the day we figure it out (maybe never), all these people saying something is/isn't possible are just sharing their own opinion. The Theory of Relativity is just that - a theory. Quantum Mechanincs are just theories. We can only base our differenting opinions on theories and make theories off of them.

[Edited on 4/30/04 by xenophanes85]

Quote:

1) if there is one universe, then there is the 'grandfather paradox'

This is not necessarily a paradox. There are two possibilites that have disproven this. Either you go back to the past and something happens and you are not able to do it. Or as one story had it... your grand father is h.g. wells. You go back in time to kill time. The gun jams and you get caught by the police. You are sent to jail. He comes to visit you and you explain to him that you came back to try your theory about time travel based on his book "the time machine". You then actually give him the idea of the book and you have thus made the past happen by your future events.

OR

You go back in time and kill him. But, due to the theory in time slices, you are actually in a paradox universe, where you have no actual relation to the man you killed as you came from a different dimension. Thus, you actuions in the other dimension and thus have no effect on this one. Other than you suddenly disappear.

Now, my theory is that it may be possible, but.. time travel would not be possible, until the 1st time machine is actually built. Then, would there be a place of actual time stoppage and a reference point

You seem like a pretty smart guy Japan. Maybe you would like to analyse my theories on time travel? I'd like to hear what other people think (I posted this before but it got ignored). Sorry if this is spam.

xenophanes85.freeservers.com...

[Edited on 5-1-04 by xenophanes85]

Read the works of the modern day Einstein....

Professor David Deutsch, univbersity of Oxford England. get out of your relativity trap, and wake up to the new experimental , and theoretical results in the subject of time travel!!!

P.S...If you dont onderstand quantum Mechanics you may not see the extreme importance of his work!!!