Army asks ski resorts to return its howitzers

RENO, Nevada (AP) -- The U.S. military is demanding the return of five howitzers that two Sierra Nevada ski resorts use to prevent avalanches, saying it needs the guns for the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountain received the artillery pieces on loan from the Army and began using them last year to fire rounds into mountainsides and knock snow loose.

But the ski resorts received word earlier this month that the Army's Tank Automotive and Armaments Command at the Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois needs the howitzers back.

www.cnn.com...




"I need to have them back in the troops' hands within 60 to 90 days," said Don Bowen, the Army command's team leader in charge of the howitzers. "It's a very short timeframe to get them serviceable and back into the theater in southwest Asia. Afghanistan-Iraq is the immediate concern."

The ski resorts said they will comply.

Can you beleive this. A country as wealthy as the United States, doesn't have enough "hardware" to fight the very war that many say, it shouldn't even be involved in ?

That's crazy. That's also a sign of the collapsing manufacturing prowess that the US hasn't had since the 1970's.

Quite inventive to use howizters to shoot fake snow, though.

How is this possible? We need FIVE out of the hundreds we have?

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

I would think this lies more in the area of the gubment not wanting the howitzers to fall into the hands of any subversive hippie terrorist types.

And to be honest they're probably correct in thinking Ski Patrol should not be the last line of defense if someone wants to make off with a big boom stick.

Spiderj

Ah yes. How easy it would be for Militant anti-US people living in the US to get a hold of one of these. BUt this issue should have been raised before the resorts got them in the first place, right?

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

BUt this issue should have been raised before the resorts got them in the first place, right?

I'm sorry which government are you talking about?

Of course this should have been considered, but who are we kidding, if the sharpest pencils in the box were in charge we wouldn't be in the soup we're in.

Plus remember on September 10 2001 the biggest news story was Gary Condit and we were all smug and secure and self absorbed.

Spiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj

Of course this should have been considered, but who are we kidding, if the sharpest pencils in the box were in charge we wouldn't be in the soup we're in.

Plus remember on September 10 2001 the biggest news story was Gary Condit and we were all smug and secure and self absorbed.

Spiderj

That's correct, SJ, and good memory you have there! a few months after 911, they found Levy's bones in a forest in a completely different state than her home. In short, the bad guys get away once again.

lol. they will have there dynamite taken away next and given cases of baked bean with the instruction to eat and fart at the mountains. thats safe enough

they will have there dynamite taken away next...

I think it's safe to assume that if that were actually to happen we could all feel completely free to freak out and get paranoid in a major fashion.

The hippies will kill ya on the fartin thing though, that's global warming there buddy.

[Edited on 4/28/2004 by Spiderj]

Originally posted by Spiderj
I would think this lies more in the area of the gubment not wanting the howitzers to fall into the hands of any subversive hippie terrorist types.

And to be honest they're probably correct in thinking Ski Patrol should not be the last line of defense if someone wants to make off with a big boom stick.

Spiderj

The article says, though, that 105mm howitzers are all over the ski slopes. I live in Colorado and during avalanche season you can hear the explosions on the surrounding mountains when you're skiing.

I think the most interesting thing about the article is the fact that the army is recalling five lousy howitzers. Don't we have an old shed somewhere with a few extra howitzers laying around in case one of the active ones breaks?

I think its more of a Homeland Security descision. Imagine if one of those guns mysteriosly disappeared? I'm sure those could do alot of damage to buildings or a nuclear installation.

Hmm to bad for the safety of people using the Ski resorts what do you do if a avalanche happens just ski faster then it ?

I think they really are going to be using these. Look at the billions already allocated to this war, the troops being called up, all the mismanaged money as is. The government is getting cheap because they have to, I'm sure terrorism is a secondary concern else they would have taken them sooner. We are going to be in the mideast a lot longer than people anticipated.

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
Quite inventive to use howizters to shoot fake snow, though.

Huh? What are you talking about? They are used to shoot at snow high up on mountain tops where there is the risk of avalanche. Where did you get the idea of fake snow?

They actually loaned them their howizters? Only in America! Well, it makes sense though. I must be going badly if the army needs a few guns back.

Originally posted by xenophanes85
I think its more of a Homeland Security descision. Imagine if one of those guns mysteriosly disappeared? I'm sure those could do alot of damage to buildings or a nuclear installation.

PAHHLEEEZZE!!!

First they would have to retrieve one. No mean feat without a very large ATV or Cat.
Second they need a trained artillary operator.
Third they would need 105mm ammo. Break into any armories lately?
Fourth, they have to hide it when not in use. They are LARGE!

Nobody is manufacturing Howitzers these days, too low tech. High tech is where the military dollar goes, certainly it's not spent on soldiers salaries!!!

As more and more homes are built in the mountains, the need for avalanche intervention will also increase. It's not just skier safety. In Colorado alone, we loose 6-12 people every year to avalanches. Usually cases of being where they shouldn't be given the snow conditions. Shred 'em up, Dude!

Originally posted by scottsquared

Originally posted by xenophanes85
I think its more of a Homeland Security descision. Imagine if one of those guns mysteriosly disappeared? I'm sure those could do alot of damage to buildings or a nuclear installation.

PAHHLEEEZZE!!!

First they would have to retrieve one. No mean feat without a very large ATV or Cat.
Second they need a trained artillary operator.
Third they would need 105mm ammo. Break into any armories lately?
Fourth, they have to hide it when not in use. They are LARGE!

Don't think for one moment that this couldn't happen.


Just like, no one could possibly know how to fly an airliner into a building ????


There are lots and lots of former military people who can handle these things. There is more than enough equipment that could be used to move one. Too many different scenarios here...

this definitley could be a homeland security issue.

I can't help thinking that this is a rather convoluted method of attack potential. It's much easier to steal/hijack a propane or other hazardous material carrier and cause some serious damage. Besides, the Dept. of Homeland Security is not trying to confiscate any Howitzers that have been privately purchased by ski areas.

Originally posted by scottsquared
PAHHLEEEZZE!!!

First they would have to retrieve one. No mean feat without a very large ATV or Cat.
Second they need a trained artillary operator.
Third they would need 105mm ammo. Break into any armories lately?
Fourth, they have to hide it when not in use. They are LARGE!

Nobody is manufacturing Howitzers these days, too low tech. High tech is where the military dollar goes, certainly it's not spent on soldiers salaries!!!

What about a rouge American militia? LIek the one at Waco? I'm sure those guys have access to all the ammunition they can get. Its sad to think that most Americans think of terrorists as coming from the Middle East to destroy the West. It could very well be an inside job from the Waco guys, who would probably try to make it look like a Jihadist attack. Also, I think since you said yourself, EVERYTHING is high tech now, thats where all the security, monitoring, attention, etc would be. If I was a terrorist, I would go low tech on purpose just becasue I know that by going high tech, I'm risking being discovered - going around the problem.

[edit on 6/14/04 by xenophanes85]

If you guys would read the story linked in the thread starter you will see that The Army has requested the Howitzers back because they need them in the two theaters of opporation(Iraq and Afghanistan). This is NOT a National Security issue NOR a Homeland Defence issue. In case you are not familiar with avalanche prevention technique, resorts the world over use artillary emplacements to trigger avalanches. Most of these artillary pieces are owned by the resorts. The U.S. Forest Service also possesses a few Howitzers.

Now, since The Department of Homeland Security has made NO move to confiscate these weapons, it is safe to assume that they are not particularly worried about them. It's nice that we all see conspiracy theories everywhere. The only conspiracy here is the shortage of arms for our troops. Can you say POOR PLANNING!