(op/ed) Why I refuse to believe in 'Numbers Conspiracies'

Why I refuse to believe in number conspiracies, (e.g. see some of the details discussed in here as well as predictions in films (see the 'A Beautiful Mind' thread.... which has since been deleted)..

I will flatly refuse to believe in the theory that 9/11 was a deliberately planned day with all the flight numbers, e.g. number of days between 9/11 and the Madrid train bombs = 912, many other examples found in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I find this very idea absurd that terrorist masterminds are sitting behind a desk adding up numbers trying to find a set of numbers that are the same (flight numbers, number of people travelling, times, dates, days between, etc) for a terrorist attack. Especially after the recent 911 days between 9/11 and Madrid bombings (which later turned out to be, relatively, false) scare which led more and more people to believe in this possibility. The definition of terror, virtually, means that it is done randomly. After all, what's the point of having attacks done in such a way that they can be predicted?
The time and energy required to crunch the numbers until you find a day, time, year, flight numbers, etc, that all matched would be far better off training people, planning more attacks, sneaking cells into enemy countries, etc.
I strongly believe that this theory is very American ego-centric, (e.g. did we forget about the Baali bombings?) Instead of checking every possibility to see if any fit each other (especially those that only occur in the Western world) we should perhaps analyze the time between Al Qaeda-openly-admitted terrorist events.
Just last week a plan to blow up a Man Utd - Liverpool match was foiled by Mi5... We need to consider the failed attempts as well as successful...
Still, nonetheless, it is one step too far.
A rant while I'm here, a thread recently discussed the prediction of terrorist attacks in 'A Beautiful Mind' which I found equally absurd. After all, why would a terrorist who, as we have seen, is so dedicated in destroying their enemy, leave chances for them to be found out/predicted, let alone plant them into a film where they are bound to be found?
Just reading through This url, for example, Manhattan Island was discovered on Sept. 11, 1609 by Henry Hudson -11 letters. another clear example of egocentricity is displayed. The Muslim calendar is completely different to the Christian one.

Anyway, I know I'm going to get slated for this, but this is my opinion and I'm very strongly inclined to keep it, I find the number theory just far too out there for my liking.

Plus, I'm sure if we looked hard enough, you'd find alot more examples of this... One that comes to mind is the London Fire in 1666. 666 is the number of the Devil.

[Edited on 4-27-2004 by Valhall]

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by browha]

BTW, please vote on the thread depending on how much you agree/disagree with number theory...
1 - Strongly Disagree
10 - Strongly agree
I'd like to see what people thing in general, thanks

It does not matter what party "believes in numerology," the fact is that events happen that indicate some kind of corrollary with exactly that.

Since we cannot actually control who "works with numbers," on any event list, then believing in numbers or not believing in numbers has no effect on the "outcome." I would be pleased if they came up all sevens, and had a "world peace day," and also a "world wide enlightened repentence," minus of course "primative reactions."

Does it make any difference if someone "debunks the numerology," when it is patently obvious as a certain design?

Sure I can say "I don't believe in it," but if someone else or some culture wants to believe in mumbo jumbo, and I want to defend myself, I better take notice.

When the witch doctor comes to Livingston, listen to his drums and rattles, applaud like the locals, and take your medicine, otherwise you might be on the menu for dinner.

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by SkipShipman]

I know it doesnt matter whether or not I believe in it or not, but what is important is whether or not there is definitive proof that there is a terrorist mastermind behind the attacks planning the next attack on number theory!


Edit: Plus, I debate the logic behind accredditing a terrorist with a master plan behind his attacks which we can work out... I thought the idea was that they are supposed to be random.

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by browha]

Seems quite a few people have some inclination towards the number theory, so can I ask them to present their arguments for it having read my little bit? I'd just like to know what they believe in it/why

I am am not into numbers b.s either however on 9-111-98, Ali Mohamed appeared before Judge Adrew J. Peck for Transcripit of Presnetment represnetd by James Roth for Defendant Mohamed and Ken Karas for the United States. The statement is sealed, indictmnets sprung fourth from that session against bin-laden. All of which I hvae on pdf.

So maybe, on this one case, 9/11 was significant.

How did you come about having it all on PDF if it's sealed?

So you don't believe the numbers add up ? Here's a little food for thought. Using the ASC II Code, that assigns a numerical value to the Keys on your Computer Keyboard we would find the following. Bill Gates III = 666, Dos 6.21= 666, there was no windows 96, but it would = 666, windows 99 would = 669 (one six inverted) and a striking coincidence is that both 1996 and 1999 both contain three six's. Microsoft left these two years 96, 99 out for it would clearly show their hand. Ben Laden 01 (2001) also = 666. Sun (the god Ra) Oil Co. =666 Exxon Oil $ = 666, US America = 666, United Nations =997 , the washington monument is 555 ft. x 12 ins = 6660 inches tall. Twin Towers = 811, World War I = 675 6+7+5 = 18 or 3 sixes . World Trade = 760 or 7+6 = 13 , NSA =364 or 3+6+4 =13, IRS=238 or 2+3+8 = 13. I quess all of this is coincidental HuH ?

I am inclined to agree, it's coincidental Look at that and then compare it to the number of companies that DONT add up, the number of gods that dont add up, the number of terrorists that dont add up, etc

No, let us look at the ones that do add up, for herein lies the truth, coincidence ? no way, forget about it. If you truly believe it to be coincidental, I have a few bridges for sale, Cheap.

I'd say I'm right with you on the number theory thing. I'd give it a 1. I don't buy number theories at all. Maybe some terrorists utilize an astrological calendar to try to increase the odds of success through an astrological alignment, but it's obvious that the ultimate goal of their operations is success through death. You'd want to be flexible on your dates to ensure a greater level of success.

Thank you Nice to see someone finally agrees with me

YOu have to understand, its not the terrorists behind a computer adding up the numbers, its deeper than that. I for one believe in the Illuminati type influenece in america, whether its the actual illuminati or whether its just a group that has influence over world events, its still up for grabs.

Ralph Epperson has a book called the UNSEEN HAND, which discusses the aspect that history is conspiratorial, rather than accidental, and it made alot of sense to me. Too many people have things to gain from history all happening randomly and by accident. Look who has profited from 9-11, all the defense companies, Halliburton, the President, etc.... Look over the supposidly falsified "Report From Iron Mountain," and tell me that it doesn't make a lot of sense today.


Typically the first thing people do when they hear something outlandish is to straight out just say it could never happen, its not true (try to suppress it), then as it gains favor people come around. Think of how many of us really thought our government was able and willing to kill americans for a pretext to invade Cuba (Operation Northwoods), and see how many believe it now that the evidence is declassified. Who would have thought that FDR had foreknowledge about Pearl Harbor, untill Discovery ran a story that stated that he did, indeed have prior knowledege.



Whether you belive in the numbers or not, its hard to state that the numbers don't add up, that they are falisified, they are numbers, not words, and its hard to fake numbers. Anyways, take a look at some of htis information and let us know if you change your mind.


and remember all conspiracy theories have some basis of factual evidence in them, somewhere, it just takes some work to unearth them.

Pattern analysis is the name of the game, and it may well be one facet of how intelligence agencies view data.

Given a view of numbers that is as clear to some personnel as reading anything else, it is possible to establish pattern analysis in a scientific modality.

It is interesting for me, some measure of intuitive capacity to view numbers began in a job at the University of Hawaii. I did keypunching and verifying. That was my first introduction to an IBM keyboard way back in the early 1970s. It seemed strange to me back then to see a typewriter with number keys.

You can imagine how boring it must have been after a while, keying mindless numbers. To pass the time though you might make some sense and meaning out of these things. Two numbers might be a year, say in history, anywhere. You might think about battles, caesars, and peace treaties. Any other things can come to mind, just to keep the job from becoming totally meaningless drudgery.

So I can conceive that there is another level of literacy, something akin to that "Beautiful Mind," but without the pathologies.

It is not necessarily some cynical superstition, but another form of literacy to envision meanings to numbers. Yes it is pattern analysis that a coder using numbers might reveal perhaps at first to bide the time, then to open up for any number of intelligence agencies something of actual consequence. It may not necessarily happen in that order. By extension, say morse code gains a special meaning to many people involved in it.

In any event you could look to the day when some lucky numbers line up, when things turn around for the better. It might as well be me, you, or anyone else.

It is as well pattern analysis, something more important than only watching out for the "superstition," of others.

I am not in favor of excluding anything, nor any information when it comes to the safety, well being, and the pursuit of happiness for all.

Well it seems that ARABS are mystified by the number system. I would not be surprised if the 911 days between the attacks were coincidental or meant by the terrorists

I just find the whole notion absurd because the idea of terrorists sitting there and counting 911 days to their next attack, or waiting for a date, time, flight numbers, passenger numbers, etc, to add up to the same number to launch their attack pathetic.
Terror is, by definition, random and unpredictable. That's what makes it so great.

I've been studying numbers in many different areas. 911 was planned by many people, terrorist were involved but not all of them that were named. CIA and Israel were the lower part of the mastermind. There is no way that all these numbers are coincidence. Even the pentagon was built on 9-11-1960. The freemasons use numbers, it's like their magic. Look at the streets in washington DC, the layout. Is that a coincidence? Pretty much every war was planned, including afghanistan and Iraq, before 9-11.

Watch numbers, study there meanings, greek hebrew, bible, freemasons, concordence, numberology.

Im a banned member, welcomed back yesterday. William asked me to log on and see if my password still worked, it did and at that time there was 360 people on ATS. 360 in base 6=Connie My first name, also 3-60 is the month and year I was born, just a coincidence, right?

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by Ycon]

The CIA/Israel theory is just that, a theory, that has been debunked several times and has no 'real' factual basis.
The streets in Washington DC, unless I am mistaken, are the same in any american city, grid layout.

Browha, look at the map of washington DC on this URL
www.cuttingedge.org...


The CIA/Israel theory may seem to be debunked but you will see soon enough that there is some fact to it.