Peaceful Protestor Shot by IDF , he dies

Umbra, thanks for your reply.

It may seem that I am lacking compassion, but I assure you, that just isn't true.

I'm very compassionate over the lives of my countrymen, and of those of allies of my countrymen.

I've seen some really sneaky, dirty, low-down, good-for-nothing, tricks used in combat against my fellows. It is in the interest of saving their lives and preventing their suffering that I consider myself compassionate. Even if I had to kill every SOB in sight.

Could it be possible that because of my evolved nature, that I learned long ago to be able to discern that which is important to the problem of the instant?

Could it be possible that in an existence where a half-second can mean life or death, that I'm simply more able to react properly to ensure my life, rather than hesitate to my death?

Could it be that by abandoning all thoughts of my own welfare to secure the welfare of one of my men, on several occasions, that I can truly say I likely know exactly what a life is worth?

I never set out to be what I am, nor did I know many of my capabilities until action was required. I had no idea, and no one does.

Some are shocked to discover that they are very good at some things when they are put in that position.

I am what I am. But I'm prepared to go fight for those who can't. I have fought for those who couldn't. Many can't fight. Many can't protect themselves. Many don't have the skills or the nature. Many are too young or too old. Many are too weak or easily overwhelmed.

I have engaged in ruthless retribution by those who harmed innocents.

And I make no apologies to anyone.

It is my compassion that enables me.

reply to post by Seany


Oh, I can read. And spel woords tu.

Wrote a book. You google it, and it's web page after web page, with prices in Yen, Euros, and money I've never heard of, in countries that I never thought possible.

And I'm not in training, but thank you for wishing me the best.

I wonder why they didn't fire a warning shot into the air? Would have done the job, no?

reply to post by rizla


rizla, that's a good question. Oddly, the Israelis were firing either smoke or tear gas rounds, and they weren't doing any good.

We only get to see through the viewfinder of one camera.

We can't see around it, nor behind it, nor can we see what the Israeli side saw.

There's no telling why they didn't try this.

And we'll never know.

reply to post by rizla


WHAT???????
What was the first 10 rounds...??chopped liver...The dude got hit with a gas grenade..stop the video as he fall,you see it land and take off after..

reply to post by dooper


Thank you Dooper for you honest reply , brutally honest even . I don`t doubt for a minute that you would lay down your life defending your family or your countrymen.
But can you not imagine, such a noble conviction, being held by those that oppose you ?

Have you ever empathised with those you`ve trained a gun on ? The civilians going about their shattered lives ..etc

I can appreciate the fact that one needs to be "switched on" in any setting of conflict ,i would imagine its a prerequisite for staying alive. Surely in a moment of calm, you have found yourself questioning , the course of action you were about to undertake or reflected on past actions ?
Is it always black and white , follow the orders ....... suspend judgement ?

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by dooper

 

Dooper , i get the sense that you have witnessed and participated in many things that would haunt your average Joe Public ..

Is it possible for someone who has fashioned himself into an implement of war, to view the world anew .
Not as Military ,ex military etc.......... just as a humble human being .

Has de-sensitisation been the price you have paid for a military career ?

I ask because i often find your posts ....cold , quite informative from a military perspective but ultimately cold and lacking any semblance of compassion.
I don`t share your perspective but i can at least attempt to understand it.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by UmbraSumus]

I have a mate(badger) who used to be 2 para before SAS,his 1st conflict was the Falkands and his last official one was the 1st gulf war scud marking for our fly boys.I have had long chats about conflicts and people he has killed asking him if he ever got nightmares-and he very coldy said no and was surprised I even asked him!lolYou name a country and he has been there,the queen even pinned a medal on his chest for taking out a Russian Hind

The thing is hes a great bloke,shows compassion for others(not on the battle field!)and you wouldnt believe this man has been trained to do what he used to do.I expect Dooper is a great bloke off line too!lol
The internet only brings out the coldness in his posts,as he is talking as a soldier would.Out in civvy street with a few brews they behave just like anyone else does(well most do!)

ok on topic-damm,that poor sod was unkucky.must have died quickly due to the lack of big blood flow.One thing you have to say,these palastinians are very brave going anywhere near the IDF!
thanks for the post OP

Anyone else notice that the man trying to help the gunshot victim, didn't even have the courtesy to put out his cigarette.

Could you imagine the outrage this would of caused had it been done at our border, a Border Patrol or someone shooting and killing a Mexican Protestor, Ha, Obama would just go into war with ourselves.

Gruesome stuff, glad it was brought to my attention, I for one can take a good tazing, gunshot not so much.

reply to post by Seany




After watching this video, I have to say that it seems like the IDF was follwing a clear cut rules of engagement.


1.) They addressed the crowd in loud megaphone followed by bursts of a loud noise decive.( cant remeber the name, The US military uses this as well.)

2.) After the protestors failed to disperse to a safe distance warnoing shots were fired.

3.) after the warning shots failed to dispere the group, Flash bangs and CS Gas Cansters(Tear Gas)

Now I am not to sure but to me it looks like he may have been hit by a canister if thats the case then that really sucks. The man who was hit also looked to be (from my limited arabic speaking skills) Directing traffic of the protestors)

You never aproach an outnumber group of troops who have the means to portoect themselves and not follow directions giving.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

Originally posted by kyred
I have many Israeli friends. And not a one of them agrees with their government pushing into Palestinian lands more and more. They all want a 2 state solution. They want peace. I wonder where the Israeli government gets its ideas of Palestinian persecution? Not from these many people I know. Some soldiers get a "crazy" discharge. In return they are denied acceptance to state universities. Some can overcome this if they choose to participate in non-paid two year non-military service to the state. Not all can afford to work for nothing for two years. By the way, self-inflicted injuries that result in disqualification for military service and "crazy" discharges rates are rising. My best friend's son is just now finishing up two years of unpaid service, teaching music to elementary school children so he can go on and further his music education at a university in Tel Aviv. There could be some hope for Israel if the numbers of these rational Israelis continues to grow. I hope so.

If your statment is true how come hardliners one the election? I do agee there should be a two state solution, as is right now. Isreal won the land from wars they fight when arab allies tried to destroy it. That would be like us giving back territory we won from mexico in the mexican/american war.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Not quite the same my freind, in this very instance the soldiers were going to move in the fences to "win" more land. Thats what the protesters were upset about.

reply to post by Seany


How do you know that this was going to occur? I seen no videos evidence of bulldoziers and extra fencing/?

reply to post by UmbraSumus

Umbra, it's not just a matter of following orders. Orders imply a plan, and the moment the first shot is fired, the plan is shot and gone to hell. From that moment on, it's all improvisation.

My enemies had their motivations, I had mine. They didn't inquire about mine, and I didn't care about theirs. I was too busy working the problem.

My enemies had their tasks, and I had mine. They just weren't up to their tasks at the moment of our meeting.

My survival may have been due to the luck of the draw, the placement of the sun, greater determination, faster reflexes, pure chance, or even Providence.

The important thing was that me and mine could continue our lives another day. We would make mistakes, we would falter in other endeavors, we would succeed in others, but my job was buying them that other day.

And it's worth the cost.

reply to post by dooper


I think people like you and I see things in a different, Soldiers who served on the battlefield. It is sad to say that we see these things in a not so human light. While I will be the first to say War and killing another human being really sucks, and it sucks even more when an innocent person gets caught in the firefight and loses there lifes.

I long for a day when guys like and me are no longer need. But that time isnt today. One day maybe.

what a prime example of BS. near the end when they are face to face and arguing, the arab says, "i know we are illegal here, but dont shoot at us". ....???? and did anyone else acknowledge that that man in the green shirt was shot, yeah. but with what? PAINTBALLS!!! oh no he died from a rubber bullet! bs all over that one. haha!! actually its not funny because people fall for it. and of course they show a corpse at the end.

if you believe that then you are an ignorant fool and need to check this out:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Poed, the killing never sat well on my supper. In fact, each time supper never came and went wanting until the following day.

Killing is an upsetting practice, but not nearly as upsetting as getting killed.

You're right. May the day come that our actions would never again be needed. No use for soldiers.

But they've been saying that in recorded history for 3,479 years.

The chance of that happening, when the world no longer needs soldiers, is not looking too good.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Seany

 

Oh, I can read. And spel woords tu.

Wrote a book. You google it, and it's web page after web page, with prices in Yen, Euros, and money I've never heard of, in countries that I never thought possible.

And I'm not in training, but thank you for wishing me the best.

which book was written by you?

reply to post by Kombatt98


U2U.

U2U sent.

reply to post by dooper


No one asked to be killed, what if that was your brother, or father, or son? Would you just shrug it off and say, he asked for it?