Why Animalistic Behavior Will Be Our Downfall

i noticed something this morning that set off a light bulb in my head - i saw 3 kids waiting for the school bus, which i assumed couldn't have been more than sophomores or freshmen in high school.

the girl was what one would refer to as "goth", the white male seemed to be the "prep" type, and finally, there was a black male who could have easily passed for resembling a gang member because of his "thuggish" style. yes, i know, stereotypes suck, but for the purposes of this post, i find no better way to describe them...

what touched me, though, is that as i saw them, they were all laughing and carrying on like they were the best of friends - you would think they were best buddies.

but then again, i've been to high school, and i was almost certain that as soon as they set foot inside, they would disperse to their own separate groups that they hang out with throughout the day. furthermore, with my experience, i even would bet that each of these groups, being so different, would even ridicule each other, and quite possibly never congregate with one another at all, inside or outside of school.

was it because these kids were forced to wait for the bus together, and they knew that they had to get along? was my stereotype horribly inaccurate, like most stereotypes are? or am i completely wrong, in that kids are much nicer today, and much less cruel than they used to be, and that these drastically different subcultures actually get along very well these days?

well, for the sake of this thread, i'm going to assume that i'm right, and that they will most likely separate to their own groups of friends upon entering the school, because i know that kids today seem much more unruly than they used to be, as if back then they weren't bad enough...

well, if that is indeed the case, what causes this behavior? is pack mentality really a factor in this? would these children actually be friends with each other all the time, because we know they can get along, save for our human animalistic nature?

herd behavior only holds us back, in the sense that, as homo sapiens sapiens, we have the capability to go above and beyond, and train our minds to do anything we want to do. why limit ourselves, and give heed to the animal within?

we know we're better than this, but on a daily basis, we subject ourselves to this primitive mentality, that would seem almost inescapable in this "modern" world we live in. i think that if we can realize that we're better than this behavior, then we can evolve individually, yet all together as a whole. we can demonstrate "Service-to-Others" easier than one would think, as opposed to practicing "Service-to-Self" constantly and frequently, and we can learn to respect everything in this universe.

if we continue to unleash the animal within, and pay homage to the caveman, then we're going to eat ourselves alive and never evolve accurately and positively. we've got to show everyone, even TPTB, that there is a much better way of life, one truer to our destiny than our current selfish state. we are all brothers and sisters on this tiny little rock sailing through space. we were put here together for a reason, just like the kids at the bus stop. there should be no other way of life, than to get along with each other, and help one another out along this journey through the Now. let's change together for the better, and put a leash on this animal within us.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by adrenochrome]

Well you went across many situations and human involvements but
what I thought of was they were all in the same situation waiting
for the bus so they rallied together.

Also they might know one another since they are at the same
starting location and are therefore in the same neighborhood.

Unlike animals we have a government working for us and
rallying us toward the end betterment of us all.

So eventually each of the bus riders will be selected into the
working of the nation for the betterment of all.

The human society perhaps more complicated than a beehive
but will still have to watch out and defend against the wasp invaders.

This would be an awesome step for mankind ......
The problem is that the animal within us cannot be tamed if we dont think we have it in us ..one would first have to admit that there is an animal within us in order to change it .....we all think that we dont need to change ...the other guy is the one that needs changing .....as long as we see it this way ...it wont change ..

I always loved the words to The Man in the Mirror .
If you want to make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make that change ....(instead of looking at others to make a change we need to be the ones to make the change in ourselves first ) ....

Another thing is if people actually looked past the way someone dresses ...how clean or dirty they are how they stand walk talk or whatever etc ...and looks at the person themselves ...I bet we would all get along better ................

i'm going to assume that i'm right

What concerns me most about your post is you are going under the assumption they will no longer act like friends when they are at school. Isn't that assuming the worst of mankind?

Hearing a story about three kids of different backgrounds getting along together gives me hope for our youths' future, not disappointment. Given the factual evidence you supplied, and removing your opinion, you are only supporting my beliefs. There is hope for your children and what you observed only reinforces that.

reply to post by adrenochrome

was it because these kids were forced to wait for the bus together, and they knew that they had to get along?

This is a big part of it IMO...


Those awkward moments are quite common at that age, so I am sure they have had plenty of 'practice'...


But, the stereotype factor could be spot on as well...they may be good friends, considering they live in the same area, and/or just go their different ways when they get to school...


Yep...the good ol' days of high school survival.

There's some truth to humans living in a pack society ... preying upon the flock.

reply to post by adrenochrome


I think our "animal" has to be acknowledged first on a personal level , we have plenty of urges, whether or not we act upon them ..... well that's something for our "higher minds" to work out.

I would like to think i am familiar with my "animal"

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A lot of our behaviours as individuals or as a group are very old, almost archaic . The fine details change with the millennia but the overall motivations are the same.

Looking at our actions from a evolutionary perspective can be rather insightful and helpful in understanding "what the hell we are at as a species" .

Imitation , has a survival value .
The " tried and tested " approach - has been accumulating momentum within our species since we walked the Savannah .

One can debate whether a herd mentality may be holding us back presently , but it has brought us to this point in time .... safely .

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Our brains physical evolution charts our species evolution .

We have an "primitive" brain stem about which has evolved, in ever increasing layers of complexity a neo-cortex, from which all that we celebrate as distinctly human emanates , particularly our consciousness .

The crux of our difficulty as modern humans is that , our conscious minds are literally "the last to know" whats going on in our own heads.

I like to think of it as bubbles travelling up through the darkness .....until they finally breach at the surface ........~ consciousness ~ .


We need to shine a light on our darker sub-conscious processes - they are the root network which supplies, that which sees the light of consciousness

reply to post by adrenochrome

if we continue to unleash the animal within, and pay homage to the caveman, then we're going to eat ourselves alive and never evolve accurately and positively.

It's not that easy. Many of these behaviors are instinctual and so deeply ingrained into the human condition that we often don't even truly recognize them for what they are. It would take incredible stamina and determination to change it - not to mention a willpower that would make kicking a heroin addiction seem like something as menial as stop biting your nails.

Of course, we could always attempt to modify our behaviors with genetic modification or pharmaceuticals, but somehow I doubt that will fly with general public. And of course it won't fly with the ATS crowd.

I don't think it's really necessary to rid ourselves of these behaviors. They served as an evolutionary benefit, and they still do - even if they're at times detrimental to the societies we've built which have largely insulated us from the largest part of natural selection. We've changed our environment, and what is beneficial for the survival of the group and the whole has been modified. Societies though... they crumble, they transform, they undergo revolution. What are beneficial behaviors in one society, may not be beneficial in another. So is it really wise to tinker and try to modify millions upon millions of years of beneficial behavioral traits to accommodate to what may be a very temporary reprieve from the harshness of the wilds?

I think it would be far more beneficial, not to change these behaviors, but to understand them - for everyone to understand them. To truly understand who and what we really are. We are capable of self-reflection and introspection, and so long as we understand ourselves and our evolutionary history - we can (hopefully) hold up the mirror to ourselves and recognize these behaviors when we display them - and potentially step back and objectively modify our behavior more in line with what we desire from ourselves.

And even then... you have to understand that behaviors which manifest on the individual level are a whole different ball game than behaviors which manifest on the societal level. Emergent behaviors in large groups are harder to identify and even harder to control - because no one person can truly control the behavior of a group without becoming a tyrant. And even then, it's not easy. Remember that line from Men in Black? Where agent K said "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky creatures and you know it". Perfect example of emergent behaviors. It's why we have a distinction between Psychologists and Sociologists.

Keep in mind that not all of these behaviors are negative. On a base level, smiling to express joy is an example of an evolutionary behavior. On a more complex level, in manifests in the debate between evolution and intelligent design - because humans are social tribal animals, like Chimpanzees. The "alpha male", the matriarch female, pack leaders... we expect order to come from from the top down, from a single individual or a select group of high ranking individuals. Without it, we expect chaos to follow. This is manifest throughout our society from government, to the workplace, to the father sitting at the head of the table during holiday meals. We have trouble thinking of order coming from the bottom up, even though this seems to be the norm in nature.

And of course I must comment on "Evolving positively or accurately". Positivity and accuracy are human constructs which evolution does not hold to. Evolution is merely change over time.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by Lasheic]

reply to post by adrenochrome


Very nice thread and observations in my opinion. I tend the agree with you in that as soon as those kids enter the doors of that school (which we know is a regimented establishment and where we are first taught how to attain "status") that their backs will shy away from each other and they will gravitate to the social group that is most acceptable to them.

Why is this? Why do we as people (adolescents and adults) "herd" together with those similar to us almost as though that's where true safety lies?

Of course, common sense tells us that there's protection in numbers, and we are taught at a young age to find comfort in conforming to those around us.

I believe this all ultimate stems from the coercion and manipulation of humanity and has nothing to do with instincts like we are made to believe.

We are all made to believe that we are equally inferior and we MUST "play the game" which society (authority) sets out for us. I think the example of the three kids you gave, are them playing the "game" the best way they know how to. They apply the conditioning and mind control we all go though and end up coming to the conclusion we all do; to look out for number one.

But is this natural or are we only made to believe it is?

Very nice thread.

I feel we are at a crossing point in time currently, where we are straddling a fence. It can go either way---Either we will herd (or be herded) and drive ourselves into near extinction, or we will have some sort of paradigm shift, or awakening, and realize that the past couple thousand years (at the very least) of programming are a dead end road towards evolution and evolvement.

At the skin / brain level, there is a sense of seperation from all, and this leads to most of our current turmoil.

At the spirit / soul level, there is an inner "knowing" that we (and everything in the universe) are connected, and I believe that has the capability to dissolve all barriers if the presence is strong enough in the individual. It is like an underlying "goodness" that is at the core, waiting to come forth, for those that will allow it. I believe we are starting to see this take place slowly, as part of our evolution. I believe what you saw may well be an example of that beginning to trickle through.

Will it occur quickly enough to reverse this course we're on? I don't know. But I will certainly be meditating upon it and wishing it so with all my will.

Thanks for this thread. It just made me smile.

I hear what your saying with the separation. I was picked on all through school and the school system itself sure didn't help elevate my moods. I was the punk of school, and it seemed like that because of it I had no friends. I know people also tried to reach out and be my freind but I didn't want it. I was much more anti-social, and shy and whatnot but it did seem like all people wanted to do was ask me about what its like being "punk" and not looking beyond that level. And I guess that really bothered me, i just thought to myself that they just don't get it. Its kind of the same way with people not understanding why you're into conspiracies as if thats a bad thing, or spirituality beyond religion. The punk thing appealed to me cuz you know I thought it was cool but I thought it represented something that I've kind of evolved since then. I always thought the world was screwed, and I didnt want the life expected of me, or to live a life of lies in general and I guess punk rock spoke out against that. It was becomming spiritual that sort of evolved those point of views but anyways..

what i'm getting at is I guess I really felt like I couldn't hang out with anyone else. They'd have different things they'd wanna do and so would I, thats what I just assumed. But i'd still talk to everyone and to this day I would say that SOME of the "punks" I have met over the years are very wise, kind and down to earth people. But yeah.. it wasn't until I started working full time that I realized how much people can be alike and not have a similar taste in music or even mindset necessarily. I like people for who they are. But back then, especially in high school, everyone seemed so separated. I wouldn't do anything and yet other people still had a problem with me. I never understood that type of mentality. Even when I was into the punk rock, i still felt very individual yet some people can't see beyond this when so many people dress alike or listen to the same music etc.

Its really an interesting thing how we are separated like this. A genre of music is enough to affect someone's lifestyle and appearance.. and its like we are superficialy transformed into something else and seperated and don't know how or "if we should" interact with each other.

We all need to grow up and transcend this superficiality. What's there to gain by acting this way?

A "prep" not talking to a "gansta", "goth" or "punk, just for being what they are (on the outside).. man.. is this not far off from a white person and black person not talking to each other either?

It seems its all I hear at work too, i live in a very multi-cultural ( as they call it) city, and it seems everyone has a problem with each other. I don't see why it makes sense to have a problem with someone because of skin colour but I understand the cultural misunderstandings.

So I say to you, would a prep understand a goth? Its pretty much the same issue.

I think we need to transcend all of this and keep an open mind and try to understand each other. We may be different but we're also similar. Expanding our understanding and looking at things at different perspectives helps to drop the animosity we seem to have for one another. Its the same thing in the workplace, no'one wants to look at things from another perspective. So many problems in my company can be avoided with a little communication and understanding.


I guess its a matter of choosing the easy way, out of fear, insecurity, or following ones heart.

Myself, I think a life of lies isn't worth living to me. I have to do what feels right for myself personally, to live for truth with an ever expanding perspective. And I've never felt more unity with people now then my whole life and I wouldn't change it.


Fear, ego, it causes all our problems man.


[edit on 23-4-2009 by CavemanDD]

I beg to differ.

Our "downfall" will be caused by the very things we cherish the most about ourselves -- our ability to love and protect, our curiosity, our desire to make our world better for our offspring, our intelligence, which allows us to create incredible technologies, reduce infant mortality rates and find cures for horrible diseases.

All these things, when combined, fill our heavily concreted streets with gas-guzzling SUVs taking children to school, fills our skies and dirt with chemicals, puts old people in homes to suffer for years until they die, and maybe worst of all, allows far more people to survive on this planet than it may be reasonably able to support. If not now, then certainly in a few short decades.

I don't know how it can be proven, but I imagine that more people die in this world because people want their children to be safe and healthy and happy than are killed by wars, and even the wars are essentially about that.

If we were simple animals, we'd attain a proper balance in Nature. As it is, we'll do ourselves in because of our most humane attributes.

One of the kids demonstrated what could be perceived as anti-social behavior, if an adult were in the situation.

He or she initiated the interaction because of understimulation while waiting for the bus. If these kids were older, they would be a bit more cautious and self-reliant, and thus wouldn't find it so necessary to connect with complete strangers.

Casually interacting with others out of selfish boredom is normal for children, and may be seen as inappropriate for adults (although that depends a great deal on generational values).

Originally posted by TLomon
What concerns me most about your post is you are going under the assumption they will no longer act like friends when they are at school. Isn't that assuming the worst of mankind?

Hearing a story about three kids of different backgrounds getting along together gives me hope for our youths' future, not disappointment. Given the factual evidence you supplied, and removing your opinion, you are only supporting my beliefs. There is hope for your children and what you observed only reinforces that.

don't get me wrong, seeing them being happy together gave me a smile, too, but unfortunately i was reminded of my high school days, and how each clique rallied together to form their own little niche where they could fit in - because animals are stronger in groups. they would also stand up for each other, and they constantly felt the need to cover each others' backs, lest the group came under harassment from another group.

even in today's movies depicting high school life, hazing and ridicule over the supposed "weaker" groups is prominent, so that leaves me to believe that it still occurs in today's society, especially when kids take movies so seriously these days; but that's a whole other thread right there...

what i'm trying to say, is that yes, what i saw is a very good sign, but the truth isn't always pretty, especially when you know the evil that men do - children are only as good as they're raised, and, well, from what i've noticed, let's just say that there are only a handful of truly good parents these days that really know how to raise a child properly...

reply to post by adrenochrome


"Goth" "Prep" "Thug" = memes .

Information that we copy from person to person by imitation .Language, fashion , concepts, ideas etc.

Information copied with variation & selection .


20 minute TEDTALK

I think that understanding human culture as a flow of memes generated by us , the meme machines, to be a fascinating perspective .

Information copied with variation & selection .
1st replicator = genes
2nd replicator = memes

and soon ......

3th replicator = temes / technological memes .


Strange ~ but very interesting to think about , all the same.IMHO

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
I like to think of it as bubbles travelling up through the darkness .....until they finally breach at the surface ........~ consciousness ~ .


We need to shine a light on our darker sub-conscious processes - they are the root network which supplies, that which sees the light of consciousness

have you ever read anything by Ingo Swann?? he mentions much about that, and provides many diagrams/pictures in his books attempting to represent how the sub-conscience streams up through our waking conscience, and plays itself out through us and our actions...

read all you can by him for a better understanding of E.S.P. and our other consciences!

reply to post by adrenochrome


Thanks for the reading suggestion

I haven`t heard of Ingo Swann but i`ll correct that deficiency with a Goggle search after i finish posting this reply.


What little understanding i have of consciousness and the effects of the subconscious are from the neurologist V.S Ramachandran , a few books and a lot of Google lectures.
What a spell binding subject ....

Though still a subject that is in its infancy , every year a little more insight .

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You might also enjoy these ........

The Uniqueness of the Human Brain

Dan Dennett : Can we know our own minds ?
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Thanks again adrenochrome

reply to post by adrenochrome


Service to others keeps lousy others alive longer than necessary.
Everything that your post advocates is cheap lame false feel-good socially acceptable trivial fine-fine platitudes that no one (that I have ever observed) actually practices in their real life...(like people who may advocate open immigration tend not to be found with eighty-seven strangers sharing their houses, not so much).
Do people in your milieu actually encourage you when you advocate these sentiments? I can't imagine it, unless you all take turns popping off and then giving each other attaboys. Oh, I guess I can imagine it, but no fun, for sure... like a musical about recycling and dental hygiene narrated by those cartoon Biblical vegetables..."GOOD FOR YOU", uh-huh...

reply to post by adrenochrome


I actually believe that the kids now are so different from the past. I'm not sure where it started but my guess is from the media from the way the teen scenes are insinuating.

I do believe that we are all brothers and sisters and we shouldn't actually ridicule others to make ourselves special. Now with my reason I think it has to do with the way they are raised. It's insecurity. They make other people feel bad about themselves to tell other people that they are much better and special.

It really saddens me but people seems to be turning out for the worst when it comes to the way they behave.

I keep wondering how could I somehow help to maintain some of the good things that are turning out for the worse. The world is our playground but it's no longer that safe because of bullies, abusers, and predators that wants to please only their self without even considering that people have feelings.

I wonder what went wrong. I actually experience this in school where people get along when they are in one classroom but once they are with their own friends. They make fun of others immediately. It's really bad I mind my business usually because I was used to being alone. I actually told my friends that I hate it when they make fun of other people, throw insults and complain about something. I believe that people shouldn't question someone's character without really knowing them inside and out.

Originally posted by youngheejin
I keep wondering how could I somehow help to maintain some of the good things that are turning out for the worse...

as far as i know, all we can really do is set an example!

kill 'em with kindness, and once you change yourself, then others will follow - once someone notices that all it takes is a little bit of servitude and humbleness to keep things in order, then eventually, and ultimately, the world will begin to resemble that paradise that we've always desired!

if you don't believe in karma, then Now's a GREAT time to start!

give, give, give, and naturally you WILL receive!

...don't believe me? then try it for a week, and see if you aren't surprised!