Eleven dimensions, Heaven and Hell...

ok, i can see where you guys are coming from... a little bit, but still the fourth dimension is still a measurement of the cube from one spot, to another spot. and then control over things isnt another dimension. its not another direction.

i guess we could be called 4 dimensional beings, if you said that we are three dimensional, with the ability to measure a difference from one point to another.

its not even really a measurement, but thats the best word i can use to describe it. If you photograph anything, and then a certain time later photograph the same thing, in the same exact way, we can see the differences. for ANYTHING to move requires time, and for us to measure time, we need movement...

so time really isnt another direction, or dimension. there is only left-right, up-down, and back-forth, and combinations of those.

ok, im just ranting now, and i confused myself, so when i figure things out again, ill post...

In theory, the Hypercube is a four-dimensional object. Since I can't put illustrations in here, I'll try to talk you through it.

Imagine if you disassemble a "normal" cube and lay the edges out flat. You would have something that looks like the letter "T", right?But what if the edges you just laid flat could be made three dimensional also? You can do this by putting six matching pyramids on each flat area. Of course, each pyramid should be no taller than 1/2 the width of the cube. On paper, this is a four-dimensional object. (Six Three-Dinemsional edges that fold into a Four Dimensional Cube)

In reality...well, I'm not so sure...

People often get confused get confused when talking about dimension, because one is talking about math, xyz axis, and hypercubes. And another talks about vibrational frequencies and wavelengths of the molecules, atoms, protons, electrons and other atomic and subatomic paricles.

Some people try to end the confusion by calling the latter, "densities" rather than dimensions...

Time can be a dimension IF you concider that some where in the future...it ends! Besides, how can something exist if you don't have a timeline to mark when it came into existance and when it will be distroyed? Hmm...

The way I figure it, if time is a Universal dimension, (meaning it transends barriers and MUST exist in all other universes.) And assuming our math is sufficient to figure there are indeed only 12 additional dimensions to the ones we're experiencing...then there should be about 7,300 other universes...works for me!

Would it be possible to reproduce a portion of the "Big Bang" Particle? Certainly not ALL of it...but a portion of it. Say, 45 feet in diameter.

(Yes, I've read the articles that have said the particle was no bigger than this period>. To that I say, SO WHAT?)

If everything, including the plans to make us, existed in that particle, does it matter how big it was?

People continue to forget that all our concepts of dimension are simply mathematical imaginaries, markers for positions.

Hence a "one dimensional point," is a convenience, not really a dimension.

None of the dimensions are really anything else, but our way of measuring ways to catalogue where our realities exist. In a way the first three "dimensions," are the placemarkers at which we arrive upon reality, then adding the "fourth dimension," a notion of duration arrives upon what may properly be for practical purposes the actual "first dimensionality." I do not think I have to prove these things, since those who know mathematics at all know the premises are sound. That is what mathematicians utilize, it is how they know things in their field of study.

No one can really argue that those conveyances are not integral to our culture and our very being. In a way mathematics can dominate our awareness, our very consciousness, and our very being. Einstein himself was aware of relativity in those terminologies. Physics can become highly ontological, indicating a study of being.

It is arguable that whatever reality is, we can measure it by mathematics, but it is not necessarily entirely mathematical but "an uncertainty principle." Even the quest for a "unified field theory," indicates the quest for unity, perhaps one dimensionality of what is real?

So mathematics appears to be a way to "get there," and is highly useful, but don't forget a "point in space," or the "first dimension," does not in fact exist any more that you can divide the number zero by anything but zero to attain nothing.

All these things are conveniences that make our existence simpler, but they are still things that reflect much only in the mind.

In a way all that is quite wonderful!

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by SkipShipman]

Skip, come on! Surely you accept Math as something, besides a tool to validate our observations. Keep in mind that for everything explainable Mathematically, there are other things, just as obvious, that you CAN'T explain by Math.

On paper, Black Holes exist...but Bumble bees can't fly...true fact.

Maybe what's needed here is a "new" Math.

BTW : In an earlier post, I figured something wrong...(dang that calculator!) the correct answer is 2,730

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Toelint]

Eleven dimensions (maybe more) four of which are used to make this Universe we percieve...see where I'm going with this?

Kind'a brings a new meaning to "Seventh Heaven" or the "Seven Circles of Hell"...ya think?

Has any ever heard of the String Theory??

In these theories, which were advanced in 1984, the basic elements of the universe are not particles, which occupy a single point in Space Time but yet things that length but no other measurable dimension, like a thin piece of string.

Basically think of a particle and its entire journey through time as the represented by the string. Thus its history can be represented by a string.

For more information on String theories you can go here
superstringtheory.com...

The curious thing about String theories is that the only way for them to work is in a 10 or 26 dimension universe.

Why don't we notice all these extra dimensions, if they are really there? Why do we see only three space dimensions and one time dimension? The suggestion is that the other dimensions are curved up into a space of very small size, something like a million million million million millionth of an inch. This is so small that we just don't notice it.

String theory, and its multi-dimensional mathematical structure may indicate that not all existence is physical in nature, although no one has considered this. If that was the case then it would open a whole new can of scientific, philosophical and religious/spiritual worms.

That's exactly the whole point of this discussion (if you're going where I think you're going)! Why can't Heaven and Hell simply be "Seven-Dimensional" counterparts to our four-Dimensional Universe?? Of course, God is the Ultimate Entity, having retained ALL SIXTEEN Dimensions.

Finally, finally, finally!

[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Toelint]

is there any 1/2 dimension?

As a matter of fact, there ARE theories that concern fractal dimensions! As one goes, the four dimensions we readily observe were originally made up of 16 FRACTAL dimensions...that's the one that sticks in my head.

This is the link that got me started on this whole "What if Heaven and Hell are separate dimensions?" tangent. Odds are, you'll find it as interesting as I did!

www.inner.org...

This might be the proof I need to convince some people that the biggest leaps in Quantum Thought isn't performed by scientists...but by clerics!

Interesting thought toelint. Makes me think about the time thing...11:11. Could it be spiritual? Just a thought.

Don't know if this is helpful to understand dimensions, but I'll through it in there anyway. If you try and think about life in 2 dimensions. We, as 3 dimensional beings could observe 2 dimensional life, like looking at a piece of paper, without them knowing. If we were to interact with a 2 dimensional being by, for example, dropping a ball through the piece of paper, it would appear quite odd to them. It would be like a flat disc materializing out of nowhere and then disappearing again. They wouldn't even understand that the ball was 3 dimensional. Now, if someone were to interact with us in the same manner (dropping a ball), it would seem like a ball appearing out of nothing, starting off tiny - growing to its full size - shrinking again - then disappearing. In short; an anomaly.

I have personally found studying the Kabbalah to contain a wide area of consideration around many of the ideas posed. I remember coming across a site detailing what they had worked out to be a hypercube of the tree. I could probobly dig the address if wanted, but I think I found it fairly easily through Google. At the time I did not have the time or patience to sit and study it. It did have a certain brain frying look about it.

What if god isn't in a dimension, what if god is a dimension...
I did a little research on Kabbalah, that's some really really interesting stuff, are Cabalists the same as Kabbalists? If so maybe they enter the creation plane, and they can make anything, like Golems and stuff like they where said to have made long ago, and now they make them in video games .

[edit on 18-6-2004 by Acceptance]

Here's a theory to think about. If hell is a dimension that a person feels like their constantly falling within a atmosphere of extreme heat. It's interesting the center of the earth (the core) would be that type of place since gravity becomes centered at the core. That person would be under intense pressure theoretically and suspended in a vaccum. I always thought what if all the stars in the universe had a fallen angel trapped in each star core. Kinda like a prison. This would be an interesting SF story base to write a novel on.

Cheers

some scientists theorize that the unseen dimensions are actually what we call "dark matter" some estimates say that dark matter makes up about 90% of the known universe...just food for thought