Vatican City gives 'Harry Potter' two thumbs up

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican (news - web sites) is giving two thumbs up to the Harry Potter (news - web sites) series.


AP Photo



The good vs. evil plot lines of the best-selling books are imbued with Christian morals, the Rev. Don Peter Fleetwood told a Vatican news conference Monday.


"I don't see any, any problems in the Harry Potter series," Fleetwood said.


He was responding to questions following the release of a new Vatican document on the New Age phenomenon, which he helped draft as a member of the Pontifical Council for Culture.


Fleetwood was asked whether the magic embraced by Harry Potter and his pals at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry was problematic for the Roman Catholic Church. Some evangelical groups have condemned the series for glamorizing magic and the occult.


"I don't think there's anyone in this room who grew up without fairies, magic and angels in their imaginary world," said Fleetwood, who is British. "They aren't bad. They aren't serving as a banner for an anti-Christian ideology.


"If I have understood well the intentions of Harry Potter's author, they help children to see the difference between good and evil," said Fleetwood. "And she is very clear on this."


He said British author J.K. Rowling (news - web sites) was "Christian by conviction, is Christian in her mode of living, even in her way of writing."


Rowling's four Harry Potter titles have sold an estimated 192 million copies worldwide, and the books have been published in at least 55 languages. The first two books have been adapted into hit movies and a fifth book in the series is due in bookstores June 21.


The books chronicle the fictional adventures of young Harry and his wizard pals at Hogwarts as they battle Harry's nemesis, the evil sorcerer Voldemort.




where's the irony?

lol Just wait till they see "Harry Potter and The Magic Bong"

refer to this :

abcnews.go.com...

oh yeah by the way I'm Lutheran.

[Edited on 4-2-2003 by thehippiedude]

"" vatican ll theology ""

false council vatican ll has changed the teachings of former councils such as florence,
trent, and vatican l.

Today many heretics have infiltrated the hierarchy and approve stuff like
pagan movies such as harry potter.

very lax in faith is our members of false council vatican ll.


peace.

So Truth, don't you accept the Pope as the legitimate head of your church?

Is the pope a heretic? Because these pronouncements are under his authority....

Do you not accept the vatican as the head of your church?

1. Don't you accept the pope as legitament head of your church?


A- of course (unless) the pope becomes a manifest heretic he
cannot be a member of the church.

our current pope has commited major heresy and has denied the faith publicly in blasphemy.


1. He kissed the koran bible that blasphemes the trinity.

2. he is the (only) pope in history to pray with non catholic religions, condemned by former councils, popes,
and saints.

3. he entered a jewish synagogue in 1986 to pray for the coming of the messiah.

4. He gives out the novus ordo mass.

5. he states that all men have christ, and all are saved.

6. he called the buddhist religion.... "" a religion of salvation ""

7. he allowed a buddhist statue to be placed on the tabernacle of god.

8. He qoutes that the men of the catholic faith and the muslim faith worship the same god.

9. he prayed with 100s of pagans and recieved pagan dances from vodoo religious women.


i could name 100s more that hes commited against christ as the vicar of christ.

its the new age movement where all religions will be one headed by the sole founder of falsehood antichrist.


"" is the pope a heretic because these pronounces are under his authority? ""


yes he is a heretic when he speaks in his own way that go against doctrine.

The church is only infallible in (ex) cathedra statements which is, we proclaim, we profess ect..

A pope can become a manifest heretic outside of ex cathedra statements.


"" do you not accept the vatican as head of your church "" ?


Only the councils that have inspiration from the holy spirit.

(every) council in churches history have proclaimed the same unchanging doctrines up until (vaticanll).

vatican ll has changed, doctrines, teachings, and even the mass that was offered since the church began
and is a council not inspired by god.

This is the only council which has changed teachings and the mass that are unchangible doctrines and
therefore is not a valid council.


peace.





[Edited on 4-2-2003 by Truth]

I wouldn't call that a heretic, I'd call that a friendly guy.

If you were the Pope and wanted other faiths to believe that your faith was open to receive them, what would you have to do? Perhaps accept their beliefs as intellectual, but not necessarily complete (as his faith must be). Perhaps to pray with men who may have hated you, but now respect you for your undying faith to bring others toward your cause.

Truth, you seem to have the same problem that many parents have today.... you aren't around or you just don't give a d**n. A good parent does snoop around; a good parent does pay attention; a good parent does look like a fool for their children; a good parent lets their children fall down so they don't fall a second time; a good parent IS there for their kids; a good parent will try things they hate for their kids; a good parent will accept their kids even during a time they don't agree with what they are doing.

You see Truth, you could never be a Pope because nothing would ever change when you were in office. You would never be dynamic, but only stale. People don't want oppression, or to have their paths in life questioned. If God didn't want bad things to happen, they wouldn't! Period! But in a world of complete possibility, people have choices and to help them make right choices, you have to sacrifice. The Pope we have now is one of those people. Until you have walked a mile in his shoes, NEVER assume you can speak for his actions.

If God thought the Pope should be out of office, he would have died long ago during the assassination attempt. Instead, he's still continuing to set an example that almost no other Pope in history has been able to stand up to. Now tell me that he's a heretic.

protector, im sorry, but this man has commited 100s of acts of apostasy against
christ.

heres what the church teaches.

God founded one true church of salvation with the sacraments of perfection through
christ.

is kissing the koran and acts of christ which blasphemes christ?

is praying for the coming of the messiah aan act of christ?

which means he rejects christ as the messiah.

Why did god let him live?

to fullfill prophecy.

"" One of its heads was mortally wounded, but this wound was healed, fasinated the whole
world followed after the beast ""

"" he had power to blaspheme god and his tabernacle ""

chapter 13 of apoc.


he has not converted anybody, but proclaims all religions as true.

Dont sit here and tell me hes doing the will of christ when thats all hes done his whole journey as
pope is blaspheme christ.

what has happened since hes been in office?

1. abortion has risen.

2. technology increases for the worse.

3. the internet was born which causes masive sin.

4. tv and music have become drastically worse in sin.

has he really converted the world?

do you know about the novus ordo mass which he promotes which goes against, the council
of florence, the canon of the mass, pope pius V, the council of trent.

he tells caholics to not hold on to tradition.

he promote other false religiions.

hes (supposed) to be the vicar of christ.

It only sounds good to those who are not catholic, what hes doing.

promote falsehood in the name of peace.


peace.

But truth, ou foret one thing Mr. Godtalkstome, your god has a book, in it a story, a story of what happens. So if the pope kisses the koran thingamawob, then god wrote it in.


One thing, Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Don't forget "Harry Pothead and the sorcerers stoned"!!!

Don't get me wrong, Truth, I'm applauding your efforts here and you do have a good basis to go off of. My problems arrise when you put loose Bible hear-say into pure fact. I know that you will want to argue that the Bible is completely true, but I tend to disagree for several reasons. The only one I will mention is the fact that the original texts for the Bible were not written for hundreds of years after Christ died. At that time, there was no Christian church, nor were there high quality writers to set Jesus' teachings in stone.

If you want the closes known teachings of Jesus, then here is the Gospel Of Thomas.

The current Pope and Catholic Church denies these teachings, but I want you to judge for yourself.


"God founded one true church of salvation with the sacraments of perfection through christ."

God did not found a church, that was man's doing. Christ did not found a church, that was man's doing again, hundreds of years later.

"is kissing the koran and acts of christ which blasphemes christ?"

Was the sign "I hate Jesus" stamped on the book? The Koran is not a terrible book and a "kiss" is a sign of respect, not a sign of divinely inspired writing. The Pope was merely showing the Islamic Faith that he respects where they are, as do I. Would you rather he throw the book down and spit on it, starting a war that you would be drafted for and would be forced to KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL in the name of "peace." I reiterated that for a reason. That word strikes up emotion and you have to use those emotions to tell yourself what peace is worth. Also, the Koran does speak of the same supreme being (God/Allah) as the head of their faith. The Pope merely believes that the Muslims are on the right track in finding the wonders of Christ, Heaven, and Happiness. So I ask you Truth, do you kiss the book or spit on it? And are you willing to handle the consequences? It is your life after all.

"is praying for the coming of the messiah aan act of christ?"

Who wouldn't want Jesus to come back and reign peace forever? Have you not read your own Bible? What do you think happens when Christ finally returns? It may be an odd prayer request, but it is by no means a point of heresay... that I know of... I could be wrong.



"which means he rejects christ as the messiah."

Since when? That is just a falicy and there is no reason for either one of us to debate this one.

Why did god let him live?

to fullfill prophecy.

"" One of its heads was mortally wounded, but this wound was healed, fasinated the whole
world followed after the beast ""

"" he had power to blaspheme god and his tabernacle ""

chapter 13 of apoc.

I'm extremely impressed with this one. This is a great claim and it does seem to "PERHAPS" have validity. Of course, there are a number of other people who could still qualify for this prophecy, not to mention scores of people to come. The shot probably would have been a mortal wound had he not gone to the hospital. This is all still hardly enough evidence in itself to convict this Pope of being an antichrist. It is grounds for speculation, I do agree.

"he has not converted anybody, but proclaims all religions as true."

This is very non-specific and we all know that the Pope finds the Catholic church to be the superior faith, without a doubt. He probably should have, or might have said that all religions have good intentions in mind (almost all of them, anyway).

"Dont sit here and tell me hes doing the will of christ when thats all hes done his whole journey as pope is blaspheme christ."

He has probably brought people to Christ that would have never given Christ a second thought if not for his righteous actions. This may seem like a bold statement that you have made, but it is more of an opinion as I see it.

what has happened since hes been in office?

1. abortion has risen.

2. technology increases for the worse.

3. the internet was born which causes masive sin.

4. tv and music have become drastically worse in sin.

has he really converted the world?

More good points that I will not deny. I will say, even with these claims, it is not like evil prung up overnight. Evil has always been here, you just probably weren't so aware of it when you were younger. In addition, the world has been going through boughts of Chaos for centuries, even back in the days of Christ, and we are still here and we are not at the breaking point for Armageddon. If you think we are, someone needs to take you to a drill seargant and have him pound some fear into ya .

"do you know about the novus ordo mass which he promotes which goes against, the council
of florence, the canon of the mass, pope pius V, the council of trent."

No I don't. Enlighten me. I do remember hearing of some of those things in my old European History class.

"he tells caholics to not hold on to tradition."

Thank God! Tradition should die off, just like people, over time. New possibilities are often stifled by "traditions." I don't want an argument on this because I've seen some of the worst forms of tradition manifest itself in evil you probably can't imagine.

"he promote other false religiions."

Probably, but then he becomes more popular and his cause gets a promo. That is a bad way to look at it, but he is into politics as a Pope... goes with the territory.

"hes (supposed) to be the vicar of christ."

I don't know what a vicar is. Sounds like a fun game!

LET'S ALL PLAY VICAR!

"It only sounds good to those who are not catholic, what hes doing."

Uh, I was somewhat Catholic. I was baptised Catholic and went to a Catholic church for a long time. Don't I have some room to talk?

"promote falsehood in the name of peace."

You or him?

"peace."

Exactly my point.

I don't really see the big deal in kissing the Qur'an.. If the Pope kisses the Torah is he being a heretic also? NO.. no because if it wasn't for the Torah or Judaism there would be no Christianity.

Truth does bring up interesting points about the Pope which i never knew including the 100 pagan worshipping with the vodoo dancers, that's un-called for but the kissing the qur'an? come on truth, stop being a little girl and stop crying.

he called the buddhist religion.... "" a religion of salvation ""

Buddhism IS a religon of salvation... salvation within your ownself... you'd be so suprised of buddhists today.. they live their life's full of JOY.. because they've found salvation WITHIN theirselves.

God founded one true church of salvation with the sacraments of perfection through
christ.

uh, no... it was not catholicism... the true religon is the religion of Abraham.

Just stick with me here protector, let me explain some stuff before
thinking this man is a saint.

I more than anybody want to believe the pope, but he has blasphemed christ 100s of
times while promoting false religions.

not respecting them, promoting them.

"" God did not found a church, man did ""

actually god founded one..

read these very closely..

1 timothy 3:14

"" But if i should be delayed, you should know how to behave
(in) the (household) of god, which is the (church) of the living god, the
(pillar) and (foundation) of truth ""


1 Corinthians 14;26

"" So what is to be done, brothers? when you (assemble), one has a (psalm), another
an instruction, a revelation, a toungue, or an interpretation, if one
does not speak a toungue the person should keep (silent) ((in)) the church
and speak to himself and to god ""


right there are two passages qouting an actuall meeting, a place of worship.

Not forcing you to convert, just wanting you to really think about that for a moment.


"" would you kiss the koran or spit on it ""

i would do neither, i would push it away considering my faith in christ which the pope should have done.

the koran specifcally says that christ was not crucified nor was the son of god.

kissing this is a slap in the face to christ (as) the vicar of christ which is blasphemy.


"" who wouldnt want jesus to come back ""

stop there. he went into the jewish snyagogue not to pray for jesus coming but the
awaited (jewish) messiah, therefore he denies christ as the messiah.


about chapter 13 of apoc.

In the 1980s sister lucy from fatima said we were in chapter 13 during the 80s.

the pope was shot in 1981.

which is the same chapter sister lucy said we were in, in the 80s.

No one else has blasphemed god (tabernacle) that was shot in the 80s other than the pope.

and the chapter13 does not mention the antichrist but the false prophet, the antichrist is after the false prophet.

so the one wounded and healed would have to be a false prophet not an antichrist.


"" hes just doing it to build up his status ""

he says all men are saved and all men have christ which is contrary to biblical teaching.

he calls the jews our brothers in faith.

note. the jews reject christ.

he called the religions in africa, the great african religions.

he said muslims and catholic worship the same god.

the belief is entirely different.

Ill have to start another topic on the novus ordo mass, since its a lengthy subject, but i can tell
you the ordo and words of the mass changed for the first time in 1969.


"" tradition should die ""

God founded a church that is unchanging, that holds on to tradition and whos
doctrines cannot change.

tradition is our life, its christ foundation.

Illmatic, buddhism is a pagan religion in the worship of iner being which is the worship
of idols.

which is wrong by the lord even of the (koran)

"" peace ""

"" exactly ""

im glad someone else loves peace.

but, peace without truth, is disaster.

peace.

1 timothy 3:14

"" But if i should be delayed, you should know how to behave (in) the (household) of god, which is the (church) of the living god, the (pillar) and (foundation) of truth ""


1 Corinthians 14;26

"" So what is to be done, brothers? when you (assemble), one has a (psalm), another an instruction, a revelation, a toungue, or an interpretation, if one does not speak a toungue the person should keep (silent) ((in)) the church and speak to himself and to god ""

Read those again Truth. To me, those both say what the Gospel of Thomas is saying. It is not a church you are worshipping in... it is within yourself. Secondly, those passages are so vague and old that it is hard to be certain which one of us is correct.

"the koran specifcally says that christ was not crucified nor was the son of god."

And? Muslims are not Christian; that is not an issue. If it said those things above, then they would be... so I don't see your point.

"kissing this is a slap in the face to christ (as) the vicar of christ which is blasphemy."

Again, I do not agree for the same reasons as I've stated before.


"stop there. he went into the jewish snyagogue not to pray for jesus coming but the awaited (jewish) messiah, therefore he denies christ as the messiah."

I completely disagree. Again, this seems to be your open ended interpretation of what he did. He did not go to pray a Jewish prayer. Show me proof and I might be more inclined to say otherwise.

In the 1980s sister lucy from fatima said we were in chapter 13 during the 80s.

the pope was shot in 1981.

which is the same chapter sister lucy said we were in, in the 80s.

No one else has blasphemed god (tabernacle) that was shot in the 80s other than the pope.

and the chapter13 does not mention the antichrist but the false prophet, the antichrist is after the false prophet.

so the one wounded and healed would have to be a false prophet not an antichrist.

This is interesting, I'm listening. As a retort, the fatima sisters MUST be correct in all they say (period). Otherwise, your argument is invalid and therefore pointless/false.


"he says all men are saved and all men have christ which is contrary to biblical teaching."

I don't think it is. In fact, I recently went a sermon on that exact thing. All people have access to Christ at any moment. All men are saved as soon as they choose to be. Since neither of us know about Heaven, we cannot speculate about which one of us is actually correct on this issue.

"he calls the jews our brothers in faith."

What do you think Jesus was? Where do you think your religion came from?


"he said muslims and catholic worship the same god.

the belief is entirely different."

No, they are quite similar. The way people practice the faiths are quite different. There is only one God... so no matter what god you are attempting to worship, you are invariably worshipping the same God (period). That is what our faith believes. So if I bow down and worship the Tree, it is still representative of God, even if I don't know that. This is too hard to explain if you don't understand, so let's not haggle over this issue, either.

"" tradition should die ""

God founded a church that is unchanging, that holds on to tradition and whos doctrines cannot change.

tradition is our life, its christ foundation.

Do not speak to me about tradition. You have no clue as to what horrors lie in the "foundation" of "tradition." You'll have to trust me on this one. Let go of your tradition and prove to yourself that what you believe and practice is not tradition, but ever renewing faith. And the Church is ALWAYS CHANGING, usually for the better.

"but, peace without truth, is disaster."

And disaster is truth without knowledge. There will be no peace until people become "complete" in nearly every sense of the word.

Protector, if you bow down and worship a tree, you are worshiping a creation of god, in turn worshiping him.

Truth, god never made a church, never wrote a book, never said Christianity was right or wrong, never said Jews were right or wrong, or Buddist or Hinduist or Witches(goddess and god then), god created and wanted us to be happy. If god thought a religon evil, why would god allow it to exist? God wrote a book, in it it tells what will happen, if god decides that Jews should be there, they are. Jews aren't evil or going to hell, for god wrote that it should happen.

Truth, I know you say god talks to you and all, but if god didn't want it to happen, it wouldn't happen. Also, if one worships anything as supreme, they worship god. Sure, they may call it something else, say it looks(not he or she, god wouldn't be male or female, god would just be) different, or say there is more than one, but in the end they worship the same thing. A Witch(now Wiccan, Catholics killed all original Witches and Druids) doing a dance and celebrating a new season is dancing for the creator, for the creator made the new season possible. A Jew sitting and praying in thanks for the food is thanking the same one the Witch was dancing for. You worshiping the voice in your head is the same creator for the creator made that voice that you believe to be god.

He also made the Pope, why would he create an anti him? Seems pretty stupid to me. Also, why is he false prophet now? Before he was anti christ, then a heretic, now false prophet. Which one? You just gonna go eeny mini miny mo? I landed on heretic doing that, but depends on where you start and what order you have names in.

Also, tradition use to be kill a man for looking at another man(in a sexual way), glad we didn't stick with that one. My freind Andrew would have been long gone.

That is what I was implying, James.

Shalom Y'all,

I guess you would have to be up on all the Catholic Creeds and Doctrines to evalute whether or not the Pope is faithful to what/who he represents. If He were not the Pope, but another religious leader, I think that the same would also apply. Does he hold to represent all that his office requires and to uphold the oaths and beliefs that he professes?


Shalom Alekhem,

adamshamar

The Pope can do both. He has both personal (subjective) faith and objective faith required by the church.

Yes Protector, but people like Truth would never be able to figure that out, he spends to much time talking to the voice in his head.

Shalom,

What is the matter with a conscience let alone accountability for someones (the Pope in this matter) actions when they represent an office? Remember our last President? He was the laughing stock of the world. Yes it was a personal issue, but once exposed, lying about it and trying to cover it up publicly was not in his or the country's best interest. We can all recall all the jokes and kidding that was made about it. In this case, if Catholics think the Pope is doing a great job representing them and their best interests, so be it. All the rest of us can sit back and watch with smiles (or shake our heads in wonder, whatever you desire).


Shalom Alekhem,

adamshamar

The pope has the choice of personal faith and objective faith.

incorrect, he is subject to the church of god and he (must) hold this as the
only saving truth.

this has been taught be not only christ himself but the church since it began, if one does not
do so he is excommunicated.


"" all people have access to christ ""

true. But he has said that all men are united to christ forever which means that
aall men are saved, which contradicts jesus and the churches teachings.

read his own words, Redemtor hominus #13, Centesimus annus#53, Missio #4.

read for yourself.


"" show me proof ""

I will, he literally prayed in a jewish synagogue for the coming of the jewish messiah which
means he rejects the christ. ill provide link later.


"" sister lucy must be correct ""

mary appears to her for some apparitions, she is the only one alive from fatima
which 70,000 all saw and all sick were healed that day.

choose not to believe if you wish, just dont call her a liar when you do not know.


"" what do you think jesus was ""

He was jewish, but upon istitution of the (new) sacrafice and covenant the old one
was abrogated.

which means that the jewish men of the OT reject the new sacrafice for salvation and the christ (their) messiah, so they are
not our brothers in faith unless they convert.


"" islam and christianity are quite similar ""

Not at all, muslims believe that they have a slave master relationship with god, while christians believe that they
are sons and daughters of the living god.

thats why they do not accept the (son) of god because he is one a master.

while we believe we are all children of god and he sent the son for our sins.

if we were not sons of god then why did he creat us?

we are not servants, we are free servants from a father in heaven who loves us as children, the same love we
have for our children, god has for us even more, and is this not evident in our hearts?

totally differnt faiths.


"" disaster is truth without knowledge ""


disaster is truth without (truth) and (love)


"" dont tell me about tradition ""

dont tell me about it either, what i live by is what the saints lived by in the (dark) ages while thhey were
fed to the lions and burned alive for christ.

yet i live like this.

why?

tradition.

I love your soul protector and have a deep care for it.

what taught me this?

tradition through god.

not false tradition, true tradition of gods teachings.

which are.
1. love thy neighbors.

2. pray for your enemies and love them.

and who lives by these today?

peace.

[Edited on 6-2-2003 by Truth]

Originally posted by Truth

1. Don't you accept the pope as legitament head of your church?


A- of course (unless) the pope becomes a manifest heretic he
cannot be a member of the church.

our current pope has commited major heresy and has denied the faith publicly in blasphemy.


1. He kissed the koran bible that blasphemes the trinity.

2. he is the (only) pope in history to pray with non catholic religions, condemned by former councils, popes,
and saints.

3. he entered a jewish synagogue in 1986 to pray for the coming of the messiah.

4. He gives out the novus ordo mass.

5. he states that all men have christ, and all are saved.

6. he called the buddhist religion.... "" a religion of salvation ""

7. he allowed a buddhist statue to be placed on the tabernacle of god.

8. He qoutes that the men of the catholic faith and the muslim faith worship the same god.

9. he prayed with 100s of pagans and recieved pagan dances from vodoo religious women.


i could name 100s more that hes commited against christ as the vicar of christ.

its the new age movement where all religions will be one headed by the sole founder of falsehood antichrist.


"" is the pope a heretic because these pronounces are under his authority? ""


yes he is a heretic when he speaks in his own way that go against doctrine.

The church is only infallible in (ex) cathedra statements which is, we proclaim, we profess ect..

A pope can become a manifest heretic outside of ex cathedra statements.


"" do you not accept the vatican as head of your church "" ?


Only the councils that have inspiration from the holy spirit.

(every) council in churches history have proclaimed the same unchanging doctrines up until (vaticanll).

vatican ll has changed, doctrines, teachings, and even the mass that was offered since the church began
and is a council not inspired by god.

This is the only council which has changed teachings and the mass that are unchangible doctrines and
therefore is not a valid council.


peace.





[Edited on 4-2-2003 by Truth]

truth, I have a few words for you: wtf do you think Jesus did? Exactly? Apparently you see both of them as blasphemers who disrespect the religion(of course, there would be no Roman Catholic Religion without Jesus, but...). THE FUNNY THING IS: The Pope is doing basically what Jesus did

In case you didn't realize that you, yourself, are being a heretic.