The Fall of the United States of America

The following is a little theory-prediction I developed over a period of half an hour while talking with a freind on AIM. Becasue I am pretty serious about the informaton discussed, I will be researching the subjects' history and periodically posting it along with my comments. Once it is all complete, I will compile the data and my thoughts on that data into a complete article for your conveniance. Finally, to help you the reader better understand where this is coming from, I will describe myself: I am a 19 year old American (Irish descent) living in San Diego, CA. I was born and raised in San Jose, CA as a catholic/baptist. However, I have an extremely logical mind so religion does not make much sense to me - which means I am agnostic. In addition to being agnostic, I am a moderate Republican (ie. believes that gay marriages are wrong, immoral, and historically and socially untraditional but that civil unions are acceptable). I'm going to continue this tomorrow becasue I am tired (its 11pm), but at least you know a little about my political and religious views - the calm before the storm if you will .

~Matthew Reed

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Sounds very interesting. Keep us updated.

Originally posted by MatthewR1985
The following is a little theory-prediction I developed over a period of half an hour while talking with a freind on AIM. Becasue I am pretty serious about the informaton discussed, I will be researching the subjects' history and periodically posting it along with my comments. Once it is all complete, I will compile the data and my thoughts on that data into a complete article for your conveniance. Finally, to help you the reader better understand where this is coming from, I will describe myself: I am a 19 year old American (Irish descent) living in San Diego, CA. I was born and raised in San Jose, CA as a catholic/baptist. However, I have an extremely logical mind so religion does not make much sense to me - which means I am agnostic. In addition to being agnostic, I am a moderate Republican (ie. believes that gay marriages are wrong, immoral, and historically and socially untraditional but that civil unions are acceptable). I'm going to continue this tomorrow becasue I am tired (its 11pm), but at least you know a little about my political and religious views - the calm before the storm if you will

.

~Matthew Reed

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

C'mon give us democrats a chance, you could call yourself a conservative democrat. BTW most of the gay community is just wanting a civil ceremony just so they can have legal rights that married couples enjoy. I bet there are a lot of divorce attorneys out there hoping they are given the legal right to marry. LOL

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by goose]

Welcome to ATS, are you able to give us any clue to what this project is about, or does your title explain it ? Anyways avoid the loons here

Welcome to ATS MatthewR1985
Enjoy the site and have fun if you need anything send us a u2u also check out BTS while you here.
7

And what exactly where you planning on telling us? At least divulge some information as to which "direction" this topic is going.


Mr. M

Thanks for the welcome. I have to go to class right now, but the topic of my theory-prediction is the obvious connection with the USA to the Roman Empire. I realize this has been discussed countless times, but I didn't know what to search for to find the other threads like it - plus its cooler when you create a thread .

I'm assuming you were born in 1985, correct? J/K

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what you've got...


Mr. M

Alrighty, I'm on a computer on a break between classes so I will just be jotting down all the idea that are in my head (so I don't forget them later). Researching them to verify their correctness (is that even a word?) will have to wait till I have more time.

Two major factors of the proposed fall of the US and the Roman Empire (will be referred to from now on as the RE):

1. Government Corruption
   
2. Military Action
   
   
   
   1. Effect: Division of the involved nations' people
      
   2. Fighting battles against opponents with tactics the offensive country is not used to*
      
   3. Opposition by other countries not involved, directly involved, and indirectly involved*
      
   
   

Government Corruption
Government corruption will be a bit more in-depth and will require a bit more research.

Military Action
The military action however, is extremely easy to discuss considering the situation the US is in right now. My theory is riding on the assumption that the Romans fought a war, a war they would eventually lose, against an opponent using tactics unknown to the Romans (Atilla the Hun?, Goths?, Ostrogoths?, Visigoths?). If it was so, than the obvious connections to the US are the Vietnam "conflict" and the Gulf War I and II (ongoing). Obviously Vietnam did not fell the US because I'm writing this as an American citizen.

However, I believe wars weaken countries becasue the peoples of the country involved in the war (usually the offensive or invading country) become divided in their views and thoughts. The division of the American people during the Vietnam era is still a problem and still being discussed today. I also believe history repeats itself and although a high-ranking government official (Rumsfield?) (tried to) disprove the Vietnam-Gulf War II connection, i think it's a pretty valid comparison.

The Vietcong themselves are different from the Jihadist muslims of the middle-east for one simple reason: the hate for the West (especially the US) hasn't existed since the formation of the nation and/or religion. The Jihadist's hate for the West has been growing and festering for thousands of years, beginning with the creation of Islam and Judaism and the clash of theologies of Muslims and Jews. SIDE NOTE: Although it is said somewhere in the bible (verse?) that anyone who turns their back on God's chosen people will be destroyed in the End Days, Israel is bringing us nothing but more trouble. It's a lose-lose situation: we stop "protecting" them, we will be destroyed in Armageddon, we continue to protect them, we will be destroyed from within as the opposition grows.

One of the problems the US has, is it's arrogant patriotism - we think we are the world's police force. Their hatred for the West and the US' arrogant patrotism don't mix very well. When we first went into Iraq, I supported the President's actions. Now (almost) everyday on the news, one of the stories is describing more Americans dying in Iraq, or bloodshed between the Iraqi people (along with Palestinians and Israelis).

We are figting a war (or is it a "conflict"?) we won't be able to win. We are actually doing more harm than good every day we are there. Their attacks will just get more and more drastic, desperate even, as time goes on. Convoy ambushes are only the begining. I mean, civil war is starting to break out - some "terrorists" attacked the police stations and blew up many car bombs killing many people, INCLUDING CHILDREN IN A MINI VAN. When the beginings of civil war start to happen, it means our plan and us being there isn't working - in fact, it's working against us. Think of the British and the Americans back 250 years ago. It's ALOT like that too except now, WE are the British (trying to force a government system and culture on the "problem country"), and the Iraquis are us (ambush tactics and all). A HYPOCRITICAL REVERSAL OF ROLES.

Dubya is the stereotypical American patriot, and being from Texas, the flat out "Let's kick ass" attitude is increased ten-fold (sorry Texans ). He will not stop until the puppet government is in place and all insurgents are "dealt with" (aka killed aka MURDERED) - which will be NEVER. Althougth its great that Saddam was captured, there will always be another revolutionary (self-proclaimed martyrs) in that part of the world. You can NOT change thousands of years of tradition and belief with one year (or more) of military action.

Fighting a war in a foreign country is a stupid thing to do becasue you are surrounded by people opposing you and people who support you (who look the same) - VERY confusing and VERY dangerous (they do not fear death and are happy to die for "the cause"). The only way** to change what the opposing people believe would be to kill them all, which would defeat the purpose of changing their mindset and beliefs.

Luckily for us, the 2004 Elections are upon us, and, I'd never thought I'd say this, hopefully a (conservative) Democrat will be elected - or at least someone that opposes the war. Things are only going to get worse there, so expect more frequent news reports of Americans dying in greater and greater numbers. PURE SPECULATION: Eventually, other countries (the UN mainly) will turn against the US for its attitude, and we will just acquire more and more "enemies" on our long, long list of nations that dislike us.

Spain (?) was smart to pull out, we should do the same - but then again the people in charge are arrogant bastards.

Research and links to come later.

*Can someone suggest a better, shorter way to say this?
**Although immoral, use of one of the mind control projects, if they exist, is also a possible solution. But since when were humans (especially US Government leaders) moral (Hiroshima, Nagasaki)?

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Braatz]

Braatz you are absolutely the best thing going on ATS and Kudos to you for your home work and exposure of a system that no longer serves the people but the military industrial complex and global elite bankers....of course those that believe there is no truth to a conspiracy to destroy american rights and other larger conspiracies will no doubt not listen or read any thing you have to say because they are programmed to do otherwise from the first day they could understand language (which we all are) or they are defending the system because they are ignorant or a part of destruction of the state .

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by watcheroftheskies]

Thats interesting you should mention the word "tyrant" ... today in Ancient Civ, we learned about Plato, the greatest and the most dangerous philosopher of all time, the greatest enemy democracy has ever known, tyrany's founding father, a brilliant mind.

An interesting addition to the list I just found @
www.acs.ohio-state.edu...
The list now looks like this:

1. Government Corruption
   
2. Military Action
   
   
   
   1. Effect: Division of the involved nations' people
      
   2. Fighting battles against opponents with tactics the offensive country is not used to*
      
   3. Opposition by other countries not involved, directly involved, and indirectly involved*
      
   
   
3. Economic Collapse
   

Economic Collapse
I do not pay much attention to the economic news, but if there are two things I DO know are a problem with the economy, it's gas prices (especially bad for us here in CA) and the little thing called "Social Security". Last year (senior year, high-school) in my economics class, the teacher handed out a paper that describes what SS has done over the past few years. It described it very well as there were five diagrams.

p=person

The first picture represented what SS was like when it first was implemented, THE THEORETICAL VISION OF WHAT SOCIAL SECURITY WOULD BE/SHOULD OF BEEN. It was a picture of many people holding up one man standing on a board. Implying that many people support a few.

p
-------
pppppp


The next picture was one showing a few less people holding up a few people, with more people still on the bottom. This picture implied things are changing as more and more people rely on the taxpayers and SS.

ppp
-------
pppppp


The third picture was one of more or less equal amounts of people on both sides, implying that now everybody supports everybody.

pppppp
-------
pppppp


The fourth picture was like the second, except more people were on the top with a few less people on the bottom. Implying it was the begining of the shift from "many supporting few" to "few supporting many".

pppppp
-------
ppp


The last diagram was a complete reversal of the first image, VERY few people now support many. It represented the future, a very likely future.

pppppp
------
p


The question begs to be asked: How do few people support many? Answer: They don't - the economy begins to collapse from under them.

An interesting side-note about SS: I was filling out a job application one day, and instead of the usual "Social Security #" field, there was a "National ID" field. Citizens becoming numbers is officially a reality.


Other pages supporting the history (fact) of my theory:
ancienthistory.about.com...
www.his.com...
mars.acnet.wnec.edu...
www.sparknotes.com...

Pages related to the opinion of my theory:
www.marxist.com... - Imperialist US
www.themilitant.com... - Division among Americans

The "Iraqi Civil War" bombings:
www.smh.com.au...

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Another addition to the list I just thought of. The list now looks like this:

1. Government Corruption
   
2. Military Action
   
   
   
   1. Effect: Division of the involved nations' people
      
   2. Fighting battles against opponents with tactics the offensive country is not used to*
      
   3. Opposition by other countries not involved, directly involved, and indirectly involved*
      
   
   
3. Economic Collapse
   
4. Division*
   

Division
Political, religious, moral and/or cultural division of the citizens is what I am referring to. Take for example the ridiculous man who is trying to get "God" removed from the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. Its great he's exercising his rights to free speech, but he his just contradicting himself and his idiotic complaint. The basis of his argument rests on his opinion that Christianity shouldn't be forced on the people of the United States. So he would rather have atheism forced on the people of the United States? Right buddy, a REAL Einstein if I ever saw one. Jesus, that annoys me to no end. If I could make the desision, I would tell him to leave the country if he doesn't like the traditions and HISTORY of the US. After all, no one is FORCING him say "Under God", hell, no one is MAKING him stay in the US. It's no secret the amount of uproar (the beginings of division) this issue has caused. And just think, that's only one of the issues plaguing the unity of the United States.

*Was there division at the end of the RE?

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Braatz]

I think diverseness has slowly become divison, or rather, division is diverseness' ugly twin. We are no longer the diverse United States of America, but rather the divided United States of America - obviously a dangerous contradiction of terms.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Divided State of Embarassment, as Eminem calls it.

Me = A citizen of the DSE

I wonder why this thread hasn't been moved to somewhere else ... yes I introduced myself, but this has [sarcasm=10]become just a tad more than an introduction[/sarcasm] ... Mods, can you please move this thread to the Political forum? I'm sure it get ALOT more views there ...

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Sorry but why is this in Intrductions??

I actually created it in BTS Politics forum, but the mods moved it becasue of four lines of introduction. Sigh ...

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Sounds interesting. You sound very intelligent. Welcome to ATS hope you have a good time.