Does knowledge only feed the ego?

Originally posted by The Spiritual Warrior
I'm finding this spiritual journey to be very difficult as the more I indulge myself into it, the more and more less I feel connected to certain people.

As with any journey you must leave those that you know behind but you will gain new experiences and friends along the way. The secret is that thoughts create reality, try thinking about meeting people that are like minded and are on the same journey as you, it works like magic.

So you are trying to free yourself of the ego.

What we both need to accomplish, is love. Pure love for everything. Society frowns upon this, as they do to people who are drastically different from them. However, we must see the beauty in that. We must understand that, and accept it. We must realize that everything is perfect the way it is, and we must not pursue the desire to change something because we don't like how it is. We must deny selfishness, we must become selfless.

Obtaining enlightenment can be argued as selfish. Selfish it may be, but obtaining enlightenment is not a desire of the ego.

There are Two Poles of Creation...

1 You have a 'material' ego (Self-Awareness)

and

2 You have a spiritual ego (Realm-Awareness)

To dissolve the lower 'material' ego, the Two Poles must combine, which develops (leads to) Integration of the Two:

Integration: Purity (Awareness of One Self)

The latter is the Phoenix Bird of Resurrection.

The Spiritual Ego is all that has potential to Ascend, and this is called the Pearl (Purity embodied). However, One must Die (taste death) for the Other to gain the Power to accomplish this ascension...And it is no guarantee, for if you think you have developed purity...have you? The Universal Being (S/He) will be the judge of that, not anyone/thing else.

The One who must die is the lower ego, for it is a selfish awareness of the oneself of many selves, and refuses to 'let go' (empty the Cup)...Yet it is The Mystery that Conceals the Ultimate Gift potential.

The Universal Mind is not easy...It Tests in the Fires of Being Presence, and you already know, intuitively, that to accomplish The Task, each must face potential Annihlation (not death...there is no death, merely passive-active magnetic-electric dual state/conditions). Most have given up long ago, the rest remain fearful, and attempt to draw back when they realize what they actually face...It is too Fearful...Impossible. The Illusion is Strong. Fear not.

You cannot destroy the ego unless you destroy yourself. So if your settingout to destroy that, you have no real chance. You can deaden the ego, but you cannot destroy it.

The spiritual journey is a pain in the arse,a nd especially if you have to live in the west.

My advice is if you are young, go somewhere in the eastern part of the world, and train there. If you have enough to eat you do not need anything else. If you are serious about this stuff, thats what i would do.

I have read through this thread with interest and have seen a lot of great commentary and insight. I think the most memorable for me is -

Knowledge is the bridge between learning and wisdom

Another one which kept 'popping' into my mind as I absorbed this thread was something I used to see on a very large church's billboard which I would I pass by each and every morning while driving on a country road to work -

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge

Sometimes I was pretty darned drunk, too, as I drove by that billboard around 8 am, often at dangerously high speeds. God, I hated that job. But, certainly, that's another story in itself ...

What I wanted to touch on, and necessarily a few other things too, in my post here is language.

We, largely, are English speaking people, so we use English words. No suprises here. And so, the word 'ego' is being discussed.

Now, we all know English is a sort of polyglot language -

English Language

English itself has borrowed words from many different languages over its history ...

Source : Wikipedia

And, 'ego' happens to be 'borrowed' from classical latin -

Ego

The word ego is taken directly from Latin, where it is the nominative of the first person singular personal pronoun and is translated as "I myself" to express emphasis. The Latin term ego is used in English to translate Freud's German term Das Ich, which literally means "the I".

Source : Wikipedia

This word, we find, was chosen not by Freud, but by the translator himself, whose unfortunate task it was to convert the coc aine-fueled wiseacreings his employer, the good doctor himself, into a form whereby it might become suitable for even further degrading western culture into the highly advanced conditions, called "societies of mass consumption" we all find ourselves enjoying today.

Well, that's progress for you. But, I digress ...

My point is that if this poor translator had known Sanskrit he may have chosen a term used in some very old Indian texts to describe what many times, like in this thread for instance, we are trying to discuss, but end up making practically no forward progress all, because we are really discussing something else entirely.

On the other hand, our translator probably wouldn't have chosen the Sansrit term anyway, since almost nobody outside of India speaks that quite admirable tongue anymore, and besides, classical Latin was then and is still now the lingua Franca of all doctorly types who wish to dazzle the 'average layman' ( as well as keeping him pretty darned confused as well ) with their astounding brilliance and 'fancy sounding' terminology.

The term I am referring to is called "asmita," and it translates, more or less into the English as, "I-am-ness," and it's meaning is far larger and tremendously more subtle than merely, as is noted in the Wiki cite above, "the I."

The first time I ever encountered the term was in the following text -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5bb0b4231328.jpg[/atsimg]
The issue here is actually a rather technical one, and IMHO is the core issue with regard to the topic at hand. So, on that basis, I would offer here a few preliminary definitions -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e5edd57db8ee.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d4159d1ee864.jpg[/atsimg]
Now, with these essentials out of the way, we come to the crux of the biscuit -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e9d79dcaab63.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c57dcd9bc30.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c9673dda3183.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/76446ee1aa63.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f57bc690537.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8df1b43f274.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52519db0ea9e.jpg[/atsimg]
My apologies for the large amount of text involved, but the objective here is to point out that with regard to our rather naive western notions concerning the Freudian ego, things may not be quite as simple as we've all been led to believe.

Now, to wrap this up, in summary it is a mere sub-catagory of 'asmita' which corresponds more or less precisely to the term, 'ego,' and the term for this catagory is, "ahamkara," which is mentioned in frame 6 of YS-II-6 above.

I am somewhat familiar with the technicalities layed out above and would be happy to present other supporting or elucidating material if anyone might be interested or may have any questions about what has already been set forth here.

Ego only leads to total self righteousness, never believing itself
ever at fault. It is the sneaky, evil cousin of self confidence.
It is unhealthy and therefore eventually leads to destruction of self.
Financial, personal, spiritual, menatl or otherwise.
It would inherently foster some plain ol' greed also.

Case in point, the current economic crisis.
Thinking one is doing a good job when the numbers prove otherwise!
Ego makes one oblivious to the important also, sometimes.
Ego bad, self confidence good! With a huge teaspoonfull of humbleness!
Some humility would go a long ways towards solving problems rationally.

reply to post by The Spiritual Warrior


I think ego serves a purpose and its very important to believe in yourself, be confident and have your individuality just as long as you know who you really are...

Its all about balance, not destroying one thing for another.

[edit on 31-3-2009 by Wisen Heimer]

Originally posted by The Spiritual Warrior
I've been having trouble with this understanding as I suddenly find myself getting into the idea of spirituality. I have been reading books on Krshna consciousness and 2012 (Daniel Pinchbeck) and I find myself learning a lot more as I involve myself into the information found on the internet.

Now, I know I'm intelligent. I can spell and use proper grammar, I can comprehend complex ideas and I constantly have original thoughts. As an artist, a musician, and a dancer I have to keep an open mind as to allow my creativity to flourish.

So the burning question is...If I am trying to become "holistic" and free of ego, doesn't gaining more knowledge feed my ego, since knowledge is power?

I ask this because the more I learn and the things I talk about seem to be way over my friends heads, and they say I come off arrogant. Like, I am suppose to talk about the mind numbing things i.e. movies, clubs, cars, material things, etc.

Is it wrong to want to indulge myself into philosophy, UFOs, and conspiracies, the things that seem important to us as humans. I just believe we should be less focused on things that don't matter such as material things.

I hope I was clear on that subject and would like to hear what all the ATSers have to say about this question.

AND if you have any advice, please share.


P.S. - Link to my art blog site...

theawesomestguy.blogspot.com...


Thank you. Peace be with you.





-The Spiritual Warrior

Feeding your ego, if feeding yourself information that makes you feel better then the next guy. yea, UFO's, 2012, and all that other interesting junk... its just information... does it really matter that you know what happened at area 51? does it matter that you know 9/11 was a hoax? really? why would knowing such things feed your ego? (not saying you said that, just bringing in a few examples of whats out there to read) you should be enlightened that this information is present, and be aware of the world you live in. enlightenment, is not the knowledge you gain, but what you learn about what all the information means, and continue to grow your understanding.

IMO, i don't think KNOWLEDGE is the road to enlightenment... when your fully enlightened, everything makes sense... from atoms, to planets and galaxies, and everything intertwined in between. My idea on enlightenment is understanding, and harmony... balance, and serenity.

Center yourself, ego is important because society makes it important. (survival instinct, remember were a herd species, and want to be on top of the herd) you don't have to let knowledge feed your ego... unless you let it do so...

There is a saying that knowledge is power..and we know power can be corrupt.

having said that not all knowledge is used to stroke egos. Some people learn primarily for themselves and share very sparingly.

Myself personally, I prefer being thought of a total ditz by all but my closest friends (4) who know there are more than few brain cells slamming together in my airy little head

I ahve met many people who come off as arrogant know it alls. Very smart people, sadly they feel a need to impose or forcefully edumacate others. usually they don't even realize they are being irritating or offensive in any way.

Takes all kinds.

reply to post by The Spiritual Warrior


my only question and i don't mean this in a negative context is how does one know they are intelligent and not just a knowledgeable idiot?

I'm fond of my ego. However, I'm quite carnal by nature, so it is what it is.

I believe knowledge does feed the ego to a degree.

[edit on 18-4-2009 by anonamousantichrist]

[edit on 18-4-2009 by anonamousantichrist]

reply to post by mindash


That is a vey good question minddash...

The answer is simple...

Those who understand that one cant know everything is knowledgeable... and the one who believes that reading a book or two makes that professors in that field is an idiot.

Socrates... one of the greatest minds ever to walk this earth once said "The one thing i know for certain is that i know nothing at all"

Knowledge is a great burden in itself. Let's be frank here. How can you not come off as even a tad bit condescending to people who are your intellectual inferiors? It can't be helped. In the end. Do what makes you happy. That's all we've really got.

[edit on 10/6/2009 by Huey Adinasi]

[edit on 10/6/2009 by Huey Adinasi]

If you have knowledge of seeing many people die because of hunger, war, greed, unfairness, stupidity of human nature and the destruction of the environment does your ego inflate? What do you think then, what do you believe in then?

I think people's ego of this knowledge will bring them shame if they saw it with their own eyes and spoke directly to these people.

What kind of knowledge is egotistical, self awareness of greatness?

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by The Spiritual Warrior

I ask this because the more I learn and the things I talk about seem to be way over my friends heads, and they say I come off arrogant. Like, I am suppose to talk about the mind numbing things i.e. movies, clubs, cars, material things, etc.

It's called growth, and you are outpacing the people who think you are arrogant. I don't mean to come off as rude here, but you need to find some new friends that have likewise interests. What you are describing here is like trying to mix oil with water.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself spending more time alone, until you find more people who have like mindedness to yourself. It will give you more time to contemplate what is really important to you in your life of self discovery.

I suggest taking this advice. I feel the same as the OP. And because of that, I spend most of my time alone on my computer after work. In fact, nearly ALL of my time is spent that way. Find new friends that are like minded before you end up like me. Cause it ain't pretty.

Do you want to live your life with an ego?

Think most of us would answer yes to that question.

I understand the benefits of being without the ego, but what honest gain would you get from being free of the ego? Wouldn't that take a big part of you?

[edit on 9-10-2009 by FouL-LiveR]

Your ego is your gift of life. It's what you do with that ego that gets creative. I take the advice from Caprica, "Do what makes you feel."

Hey, nice to find this thread.

To me, knowledge is the road to change, and mind confrontation is the fuel in wich you ( and what you define as you ) can move the point of observation and experience all that is to be experienced [from that acquired knowledge].

IMO we act here as 'spiritual alcoholics'... we come, we tell our common stories of isolation, of self breakthroughs, of giving up and sometimes letting go.

I need to fill my void. If akasha lead me here, bets not to fight it.

Summing up: the process was very hard for me; but im not sorry, and i dont think if i could ever go back I would change it.

You see, my life is filled with these stepping stones i cant deny, working like a scratch that never go away. I was visited by a woman ghost(11), i had a TK burst (17), i saw my wife being psychic attacked by reptilian being (27), and lastly, in the real time astral (or etheric viewing) i saw an earthbound spirit attacking her (32).

Apart from the last, i never asked or looked into those experiences. But after the TK burst, i couldnt rest of thinking HOW THIS CAN BE REAL?

I would say that of 33 years of existence, i spent the fist 25 in completely denial and, lets face it, fear.

Part of me wanted to be a writter. Badly. Always reading in my room. I´ve read almost all books of Asimov and Stephen King.

In some of his books, SK stated that 'a writter does not have a well behaved mind'... oh boy. I decided that denial has done nothing for me (i coulndt fit in the 'get drunk' theory of life) and, not of something conscious, i started to read and go places most people wont go.

'Zeitgeist' was my first material.

What started as an act of rebellion, gave me fuel (mind confrontation) to reach new places, some good, some bad; but the whole question 'of what is real' become more like 'what i can decode from this experience..', and naturally knowledge gave me more tools to explore new roads.

I went to my (mind) borders and edges silently, individually, relentlesly and when at last I hit some ground (TK ability, the astral planes), rescueing that special perl in my hands I found old faces looking the other way, or simply denying the existence of anything and everything i would show to them.

The letting go part has to start somewhere, and so it went. Fast as house of cards i can say. I can pretty well relate to isolation, and the 'protected quietness' state most people do while travelling around the borders of the ego...

On being left by friends: If you give matter to these things they will control you, they will be part of who you are, and WILL AFFECT how you define yourself and you will mostly find sorrow within that life-border-control.

Im gonna close this one up by saing that whatever has to come on our way, honor the man and woman who stood by the mirror and claimed for change and got through moving the big pile of the shait (their mind boxes). If you feel sorry for your self, game over, no freedom for you, because freedom does not come with war, not it is a boredom hole that needs to be filled with whatever product the corporations have to you...

Freedom is a state of mind, and is so subtle that only when you feel absolutely free is when you realize the existence of confinement.

Peace,
RP

Knowledge doesn't just feed the ego, of course some stuck up people have their ego fed when they believe they're more superior then other people and don't really use their intellect to help people, only brag about stuff.

reply to post by RobertPaulsim

I think I understand your point even though I do not believe in, and actually disagree with, how you explained your experiences (what's TK btw?). I do not believe in the supernatural what so ever, it does not exist in my opinion but this doesn't make it false. What I do believe in is far more powerful than the supernatural or even magic. I believe that we make our own reality in what we believe... and with that being said I say be very careful what you believe, or better yet, "Be mindful of your thoughts, they can betray you!"

To put it simply, Zeitgeist is a fraud!
I have researched much of the pertaining material (for different reasons) that was presented in that little sifi movie and in my opinion the important issues are down right false and intentionally so. This is one style of deception that is often used. There is just enough explicit and controversial facts to catch our attention and then the fallacies are slowly added until finally, Dooms Day!!! The question I have asked myself is,
Why is doomsday so popular?
Is this something to do with Catholicism and the book of Revelations?
If this is the reason, apocalypse prophecy, than it is nothing more than fear propaganda.

In a previous post I commented on my thoughts about knowledge and ego. I think that both knowledge and ego are deceptions designed to hide failure, safety mechanisms that hide our fear of failure that in turn causes us to fail. The divine source is found with Understanding and this will lead use to Truth.
Knowledge = false, a deception.
Understanding = Truth, Divine (or dare I say Divination).