What do you hate about America?

SORRY MODS!!!!!!! Double post

[Edited on 4-21-2004 by insite]

OHhhh....i see it now insite.....so you come here to "study" and use our money and then you want to diss us out?

Even if you pay for your education, you are dissing the country that is giving you the freedom and right to get an education.

If I had stayed in Spain with my family from there, I would probably have right now a low paying job and no college degree because since my parents or I could not have paid for my University education. (In Spain there are Universities no colleges)

Dissing the same country that is giving you the ability to excell in life is one of the lowest things anyone can do imo.

Typical........

You do not deserve to get an education at our expense and diss us out.

Out with you and your kind I say.....




[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Muaddib]

I'd just like to say a few words in defense of Insite.

I may be new here but I can tell already pretty much who I agree with on the major issues, and Insite is one of the posters I resonate with the most.

In other words, it's neither of you.

Yes i live in Australia which is USA II and i dont like the fact we're USA two. But our way of life still kicks the crap out of yours. To compare Australis with the US is like comparing Canada to the US, yeah theres similarities but in the end the USA is still the worse of the two. We're heading down the same path you are but we're not quite there yet. Anyway it wasnt my choice to come here anyway, and if it wasnt for my friends i would've left. But i still plan on leaving in the next year or so...

As for the NFL... i wasnt paying out on the NFL, dont get me wrong (GO PACKERS!!!) or any of these sports, i was merely paying out on the fact that its considered a 'world' sport according to your 'world' sports programs. The USA and Canada are the only two countries with decent Gridiron leagues. Thats hardly the world. Its just seems typical of the American 'we are the world' attitude.

and i admit the huge bold AMERICA SUX was a bit over the top, but i got a little worked up, like i said... sorry guys

Originally posted by specialasianX
Yes i live in Australia which is USA II and i dont like the fact we're USA two. But our way of life still kicks the crap out of yours.

Oh my, some one has a complex don't they. Look ya Ausi, you guys aren't USA#2 lol. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Your way of life? I've watched the Crocodile Dundee movie and I think now I know about as much about your country as you know about mine. Oh yeah, USA#2 that would be England. Why not think a bit before you type there mate, been hanging out with those tribal women a bit to much eah?

Originally posted by Muaddib
29 countries huh?, yep is a lot, but have you trully lived in all those countries to see what it is "living" in them?

Okay, I have lived in four, New Zealand for 13 years; Brunei Darussalam for two years; Canada for one and the United States for four.

I was born in Cuba, i lived there for 7 years, and i have visited my family in there in 2001 for a month, that is trully a country under a dictator, an oppressed country.
I lived 10 years in Spain, visited and lived in many parts of Spain and in Lisboa, Portugal for a bit.
Spain back in the 80s was a mix between democracy and socialism, yes there were many good things about it, but there was a lot of bad. In Spain, althou the education system is free up to what in here is high school, after that unless your family has a lot of money and you are an A student, is really difficult to get an education past high school.

I lived in a benevolent dictatorship for two years, yet it still was more free than the United States with emphasis on legislation as opposed to enforcement as is the case in the United States. Also you don't think it's hard for an American born in the ghetto to afford let alone have the incentive to attend a university based on their personal circumstances? Let me reiterate, the American Dream is a farce if you inculde variables.

Crime in Spain is a lot higher than that of the US, the thing is that in Spain the media doesn't announce crime as much as it is done in the US.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the United States relies upon fear as a mode of control over its citizens.

Now, about our forefathers.....
Unless I am totally wrong, the forefathers of the USA made not only a bill of rights but also provided a means to have a balance on "law" in the "government" when they wrote the Constitution.

But!!! It has been radically modified over the past 200 years.

Anarchy in itself is the "absence" of law, anarchy is "lawlessness", a conditon of no government in a nation... I think i am pretty enlightened about what anarchy and freedom is. Yes, with freedom you should also have responsibilities and "laws" to make sure other people's freedoms and rights are taken in consideration also, otherwise it becomes "anarchy", and anarchy was not the intention of our forefathers. This is why they wrote the Constitution. They did not write the Constitution for the US to be an anarchy...

You are wrong, Anarchy is not about the destruction of law, but the destruction of authority. If you were half as enlightened as you claim to be you would already know this. Read some John Locke, Thomas Jefferson and other anti-federalist literature. Thoreau, McKenna, the list goes on. Anarchism places it's highest value on personal responsibility. Responsibilty for others as well as your own actions.

Your opinion about hating the right of others to hate the US being against freedom falls once again in the category of what is within the "law." It is not only that these people and groups hate the US, but they are "actively" seeking to bring down the government and "the way of life" of the US to "further their own agendas.

It is only because the true values the forefathers envisioned is perverted by modern standards. American communitarian anarchists want to return to the values that America was supposedly agreed to uphold in 1776. Anarchy sees no problem with laws, but who has invented these laws? Power hungry politicians who have distorted the Constitution to further their agendas.

As for adding new laws as our country has grown and progressed, it is only natural. Very few countries keep the original form of their government intact, but they keep adding new laws as their countries progress and grow.

True. But the destruction of personal rights is uncalled for.

About your view of freedom meaning being able to grow pot, or whatever else and do whatever you want, even if it is against the law....in here you have to get back to the "laws" of the country, you have to follow these "laws" otherwise what you want once again is "anarchy" and our forefathers wrote about a form of government where there is a check and balance, still it is a form of "government" with "laws."

Your statement is void since the forefathers are known to have cultivated hemp, an act punishiable with jail time in the 21st century.

Once again...read the Constitution of the United States, because i think you have read something else, and see that our forefathers devised a "form of government" and not an "anarchy."

I hold the constitution as valuable as the bible. I suggest you look into the historical significance vs. the current state of America. You are fooling yourself if you think the forefathers envisioned anything even remotely similar to the curent state of the United States.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by specialasianX
Yes i live in Australia which is USA II and i dont like the fact we're USA two. But our way of life still kicks the crap out of yours.

Oh my, some one has a complex don't they. Look ya Ausi, you guys aren't USA#2 lol. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Your way of life? I've watched the Crocodile Dundee movie and I think now I know about as much about your country as you know about mine. Oh yeah, USA#2 that would be England. Why not think a bit before you type there mate, been hanging out with those tribal women a bit to much eah?

Australia is America 2 like specialasian said. I suggest you read up on their bitch like compliance in everything America proposes.

Originally posted by insiteAustralia is America 2 like specialasian said. I suggest you read up on their bitch like compliance in everything America proposes.

I didn't say they didn't want to be US#2 I said they weren't.

Originally posted by Muaddib
OHhhh....i see it now insite.....so you come here to "study" and use our money and then you want to diss us out? Even if you pay for your education, you are dissing the country that is giving you the freedom and right to get an education. If I had stayed in Spain with my family from there, I would probably have right now a low paying job and no college degree because since my parents or I could not have paid for my University education. (In Spain there are Universities no colleges)
Dissing the same country that is giving you the ability to excell in life is one of the lowest things anyone can do imo.

Don't pretend you are the only country on the face of the planet that provides the ability for me to excell in life, RIDICULOUS! How can you honestly consider yourself an American if you have no concsience for change and improvement over the norm? No sense of revolution, no sense of responsibility; It is you who is unAmerican, not me. Listen, how about you at least attempt to believe that you are capable of changing the world for the better through your actions and stance and not fall into line with the rest of the sheep waiting to be sheared. You hold the most unpatriotic stance I have ever bore witness to. Meanwhile 'll slave away at the University I PAY FOR and get my education at the expense of no one but my own family.

You do not deserve to get an education at our expense and diss us out.

How is it anywhere remotely close to "at your expense." You act like I'm not even a tax paying citizen which is retarted, BECAUSE I AM!

Stupid Americans.

Originally posted by specialasianX
Here comes fun!!!

Heres what i hate about the USA!

-Your population is kept in ignorance about the world and issues (thus they cant complain)
Name a country where the population is not kept in ignorance. Many Americans may be ignorant of most things, but thats by personal choice. A government can't tell everything now can it? Think about it.

-your 'world sports' include NASCAR, NFL, NHL, Baseball, and basket Ball... all sports that maybe one or two other countries other than the USA play (with the Exception of ice hockey which is played across nortern europe) Many countries have sports that no other country plays. Americans have a wide range of tastes. Why do you think we are called the melting pot? BTW, Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey are played in many, many countries - not just America.

-Your rich stuff themselves with food and luxuries while your poor siffer and poor all over the world suffer.
Name a country where the rich do not do this? 99.99% of the people in the world are only concerned about self-interest. I highly doubt you yourself have ever lent a hand to the needy (like most people).

You may like this quote from Thomas Jefferson: "Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor."

-Your government acts all highand mighty, they say they do things for the interest of the world and other countries when in reality its only for themselves.
Of course it is only for themselves. Every leader/s of a country is only concerned about whats best for themselves or for their country. Any country with as much power as the United States would be doing the same thing - its called "expansion of the empire." Every country in Europe has done it or tried it in the past. Empires only exist for so long though.

-you overthrow some dictators but leave other who are worse in place, you overthrow democratically elected governments to install tyrants (Iran, Indonesia... etc)
It is done to serve the best interests of the "elected" leaders of the USA - and sometimes it benefits the American people. Its a dog eat dog world and everything that goes on is planned accordingly.

-You are the only nation to ever drop a nuke (2 in fact) and yet to seem to think your the only nation allowed to have them
Those type of agreements are just hearsay. You can say you won't do something, but it doesn't mean you won't break the agreement in an instant if you need to. Nuclear weapons are used as leverage. As long as other countries know that the USA has them and are willing to use them, they won't try to attack the mainland. It also keeps other nuclear nations at bay because they know if they use them against the US, or against other nations, the US will strike back and leave nothing. The nukes were dropped in Japan for a reason, read about it.

-You support Israel when clearly they are a terrorist state.
Every country could be considered a terrorist state. Again, self-interest. There is a thin-line between right and wrong. Right and wrong is the point of view your parents, teachers, country, etc... instilled upon you from an early age.

-You supprted the IRA who were clearly a terrorist organisation (but britain didnt go and invade you did they???) Much of the American population is of Irish descent - so the support for a unified Ireland and an end to British rule only makes sense. One of the reasons the United States is the United States is because of the end of British rule here. Also, the conflict in Northern Ireland is very complex, read these Q&A's here: cfrterrorism.org...

As of July 2002, it is no longer considered to be a terrorist organization.

-you only go after islamic terrorist but not the IRA and ETA (also other groups who's names elude me)
I'm not familiar with ETA, but my info on the IRA above is very informative. We have gone after many terrorist cells deemed worthy - not just Islamic terrorists. Islamic terrorists just seem to be the norm as of late, and the most "advertised."


-you invaded iraq illegally and on lies.
Again, self-interest. Any country with power would have done this. I don't support it, but this sort of stuff happens. Here are some more Thomas Jefferson quotes (he definately saw the reality of things):

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. "

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."

This all seems to be happening right now. Good thing we still have the fourth amendment! Of which Thomas Jefferson said this (his quotes are great aren't they? : D): "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

-you violate human rights, then go off and acuse others of the same thing.
Self-interest and denial. Every government does it. There are worse violations of human rights caused by other governments than the American government - and those are against their own people. America has done it in the past, to it's own people, but we are actively trying to keep it from happening again.

-you pollute the environment more than any other nation
Been to a third world country lately? We are not as bad as it seems. We definately need to cut down on certain things and have more stringent clean-up policies, but so do most other countries in the world.

-you manipulate countries into 'free trade' which only benefits you and the other rich countries.
Not true. It benefits the leaders of the country who allow the free trade. Remember, its usually not the people of a country who profit from these type of things - its the leader/s.

-you claim to be the 'land of the free'... what a joke!
We are certainly more free than any other country in the world. Not many countries allow you to talk crap about your leader/s and get away with it. I'd say thats freedom indeed.

And that second amendment really shows the freedom we have - we can defend ourselves against the government if we have to. Not many other countries allow citizens the right to bear arms (if there are any - I can't seem to think of any at the moment : ).


well the list continues but i'm getting worked up and i'm at work and thats not a good thing...
so to conclude:

America Sux


[Edited on 4-26-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]

I hold the constitution as valuable as the bible. I suggest you look into the historical significance vs. the current state of America. You are fooling yourself if you think the forefathers envisioned anything even remotely similar to the curent state of the United States.

You are the one fooling yourself for thinking that the laws of the USA would not change with time to better fit the needs of a growing country.

As for our forefathers growing hemp, first you will have to provide "reliable" proof of this, second it really does not matter to me what they did back then, because we are in a different world now. We are not in 1776 anymore, wake up.

Nowadays people drive cars faster than you could ride a horse, and you can kill other people by being under the influence of illegal drugs while at the same time driving among other things, hence why they are illegal.

As for everything else, you are once again, twisting everything to fit your view. Check on any dictionary to see what anarchy is, because you don't seem to know what it means

You can twist the meaning of anarchy all you want, but anarchy is the absence of a government and without government there are no laws to ensure everyone is treated the same.

The Constitution in itself defines a "GOVERNMENT" for the people, and by the people this is not anarchy, do not think you can twist words and make me see it your way, because you are trully deluded.

If the forefathers had any intention to have an Anarchy, they wouldn't have made a "form of government" as written in the "Constitution."

In anarchy each person makes his own laws, so if lets say, you decide to rape another person, then it is your right to do so under anarchism.

BTW, which "benevolent" "dictatorship" (I can only laugh when people put these two together) did you live under?

Don't pretend you are the only country on the face of the planet that provides the ability for me to excell in life, RIDICULOUS

Well, you don't have to stay in the US, find another country where you can get an education if you are not happy here, you said it yourself, you want to leave, so leave.
bye, bye.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by specialasianX
Yes i live in Australia which is USA II and i dont like the fact we're USA two. But our way of life still kicks the crap out of yours.

Oh my, some one has a complex don't they. Look ya Ausi, you guys aren't USA#2 lol. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Your way of life? I've watched the Crocodile Dundee movie and I think now I know about as much about your country as you know about mine. Oh yeah, USA#2 that would be England. Why not think a bit before you type there mate, been hanging out with those tribal women a bit to much eah?

For a start Croc Dundee is nothing like Aussie life, and i could gaurantee people in Aus know so much more about the USA and your way of life than the peope in the USA know about our way of life... In fact most people here know where the USA is... alot of people in the USA dont even know where the USA is...
As for us being USA II it was a shot at how Australia seems to follow the USA blindly without even consulting the people... Yes the UK is also USA II (you said england, for your info Scotland, wales, and northern ireland are part of the country known as the UK or Great Britain, what england does they all do as one).. and why does stating this make me have a complex, i hate the USA and i'm ashamed that the country i have adopted as my home, the country i have spent half my life, is turning into a lap dog for the USA and its tyranny

Stupid Americans.

Wow, very insightful.....I wonder where the girl in your sig is from.....

Originally posted by Muaddib


Well, you don't have to stay in the US, find another country where you can get an education if you are not happy here, you said it yourself, you want to leave, so leave.
bye, bye.

You know, I am so sick of hearing that "If you aren't happy in this country...blah blah blah" # that it isn't even funny.

Just because someone has a problem with the status quo, the sheep tell him/her they should just shut up and get out.

I happen to feel that having a problem with the way things are seems to indicate that a person actually CARES for his country and what's becoming of it.

Just because a lot of us don't agree with the status quo and want things to change for the better doesn't mean we should get the # out, so please quit using that lame exclamation.

Originally posted by Muaddib
You are the one fooling yourself for thinking that the laws of the USA would not change with time to better fit the needs of a growing country.

Do I believe the country must adapt to fit the needs of modern society? Of course I do. But the oppression of the people for one reason or another is far from what the Bill of Rights garuntees the citizens. Right now we have an attourney general stripping rights away left and right to further an unknown agenda. This is worthy of a topic in and of itself and I will not delve into, but all it requires is a tv or a few cents for a newspaper to see for yourself.

As for our forefathers growing hemp, first you will have to provide "reliable" proof of this, second it really does not matter to me what they did back then, because we are in a different world now. We are not in 1776 anymore, wake up.

Type Jefferson + hemp into google for a plethora of sources. Tell me how the classification of hemp as an illicit substance has helped the American people and I will give you props. Both Jefferson and George Washington grew hemp. I'm more awake than you are, obviously as I'm sure 99.9% of posters will agree about the hemp issue.

Nowadays people drive cars faster than you could ride a horse, and you can kill other people by being under the influence of illegal drugs while at the same time driving among other things, hence why they are illegal.

Yet alcohol remains legal and kills thousands while there were only a score of problems associated with ECSTASY last year in the UK. How can you justify the banning of so called illicet substances while the biggest killer of all remains legal? Dude, your arguments are so flawed and easy to refute I could do it blindfolded with my hands behind my back.

As for everything else, you are once again, twisting everything to fit your view. Check on any dictionary to see what anarchy is, because you don't seem to know what it means. You can twist the meaning of anarchy all you want, but anarchy is the absence of a government and without government there are no laws to ensure everyone is treated the same. The Constitution in itself defines a "GOVERNMENT" for the people, and by the people this is not anarchy, do not think you can twist words and make me see it your way, because you are trully deluded. If the forefathers had any intention to have an Anarchy, they wouldn't have made a "form of government" as written in the "Constitution."In anarchy each person makes his own laws, so if lets say, you decide to rape another person, then it is your right to do so under anarchism.

Well, aside from taking political science courses in the university you wish I didn't attend I know a thing or two about anarchy since I'm a god damn anarchist! You're right though. Government is flawed because it forgets the individual. However, I disagree that anarchists don't appreciate law. Laws are set forth and anarchists will follow the laws if they all believe in them. Government and authority will be abolished because individuals govern themselves best in order to be free from constraint and personally empowered. However, anarchy begins with freedom and equality as well as everyone being equally responsible. Trust me, you know nothing about anarchy. If you think it's a bunch of people going around raping and murdering each other you're way off. Anarchism empowers the community instead of centralized federalism. That doesn't mean there is no law, it means the decision making isn't seperated from the individual. Just an example, in a communitarian anarchist system an offender will either be exiled or killed after two offenses the community agrees are offenses.

Do you not even wonder why Jefferson authored the Declaration fo Independance but did not sign the Constitution? He was an anarchist who didn't agree with federalism! yet he sits on the $20 bill.

BTW, which "benevolent" "dictatorship" (I can only laugh when people put these two together) did you live under?

It was a monarchy under Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah and Yang di Pertuan of Negara Brunei Darussalam. And although the country was dry I was still able to drink Heineken with the police. If someone makes all the decisions, but all the right decisions putting his people first, how can "benevolent dictatorship" be laughed at? You truely are a non-thinking ignorant one. Happy to have schooled you this evening.

Just because someone has a problem with the status quo, the sheep tell him/her they should just shut up and get out.

You call sheep people that do not agree with your views...wow....what's new?

Do I agree totally with everything the government does? I have said before I don't so please, stop puting words in my mouth, and what is it with you and sheeps anyway... You name everyone that does not think like you as a sheep? What do you believe yourself to be a shepperd?

As for Brunei, first of, its true it is a monarchy....second of all...there are people from the BNDP that are still in prison without a trial for 27 years...probably even more for some.

I think you forget the Internal Security Enactment of 1982 which authorizes the indefinite detention without charge or trial of anyone acting in a manner prejudicial to the security of the State.(Which is the Sultan)

Talk about a "benevolent dictatorship".......

I almost forgot...about hemp and other illegal drugs. I am well aware that some people would prefer to be high all the time.... You want to talk about being a "sheep" and not being able to think for yourself? smoke some weed then get back and talk about government or politics in general.

Did you school me in anything? NOPE


If you want to see the enactment, here is a link. Its almost at the bottom of page 6.
143.129.203.3...

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Muaddib]

What I hate about the US is very much what i hate about my own country, what I like about it is very much what I like about mine, ie we're all flawed, just cos the US is a superpower doesn't mean it has to be perfect, we weren't and we ruled for how many years. Arrogance, see Spain, France or Italy, they all have their own brand of it too.

OK one criticism, Americans in general are pretty ignorant about the rest of the world but their happy to learn about it given the opportunity.

ie we're all flawed, just cos the US is a superpower doesn't mean it has to be perfect, we weren't and we ruled for how many years. Arrogance, see Spain, France or Italy, they all have their own brand of it too.

Someone with some sense. Finally.

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Muaddib]