HR 1388 National Service Bill Passed Senate

I'm not too concerned over this. We should want to help each other out, as best as we can. A guy like myself isn't going to be put to work repairing railroad tracks, unless they want really crappy railroad tracks that will cause train wrecks.

reply to post by Ittan


What, being enslaved? Yes, I suppose being enslaved would knock the laziness right out of somebody. Luckily for you, the terms and conditions of this site don't allow me to address your comment in the most honest and appropriate way.

I like how you throw in there that you would hate being enslaved, but it's probably a good thing because apparently other people deserve to be enslaved. So it's only bad if it happens to you? What a punk. Unluckily for you, the bill says "all individuals."

Absolutely unbelievable !!! They have just sold us into slavery !

Did they all forget the 13th amendment ? Niether slavery, nor INVOLUTARY SERVITUDE (except in the case of punishment for a crime that a person has been duly convicted of) shall be allowed in the United States, or anyplace under it's jurisdiction.

When the hell are Americans gonna wake up and put an end to all this madness and take our country back?

All those people that believed in his "vote for change" campaign, lol here's the change he promised you, America turned into a communistic country and Americans turned into slaves. And people are allowing this, unbelievable

Something needs to done before it's too late.

"The Grand Army of the Republic"

... so this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

President Obama spoke tonight and was quite clear that, if one paid attention to his rhetoric, that he is proposing massive and sweeping changes. Many people have asked questions about these programs from positions of "loyal opposition," and rightly so. However, most of his critics see that they would be able to stop the President if things got too out of hand. And yet, we have just given the President the means by which to secure his power and the power of authoritarians in America.

It is my position, and the position now of many people who have been paying attention to these issues, that, in the past 2 weeks, several major lines have been crossed by the administration. None of them have been the proverbial point of no return, or the "SHTF" moment, but we are coming inexorably closer to that point.

It is my assertion that, by June or July of this year, we will be facing a sweeping amount of reforms that are enacted more and more by seeming fiat of the President and his allies. These will be supported by vast throngs of people and those opposing him and his policies will begin to look more and more like fringe, terroristic, and conspiratorial individuals. Then, by September and October, certain steps will be taken to curtail dangerous individuals.

This will all be done with the blessing of the "loyal opposition" that is either in league with the administration to preserve the integrity of their power, or they are simply unable to make effective decisions in order to curtail the gross violations of the Administration.

That, then, by later this year, or early next year, will leave America with a choice. I'll leave that to you to decide what it will be.

reply to post by Ittan


I'm sorry, but are you insane ? You support slavery ?

Perhaps you could explain how slavery would stop people from being lazy ? Perhaps you could explain how slavery could ever be a good thing ?

This was quoted in an article about this here:

NY Times Article

"It’s akin to a call to arms by President Obama, who has harkened back to those early days to demand giving back by those who voted for him."

Well, I'd just like to say that I didn't vote for the c**k*u*k*r, so they can all kiss my ass. I, nor any member of my family will submit to this tyranny. And for those of you who think this is "ok", you get what you deserve.

I'm starting to think that America has decided this path for itself. Americans voted for Bush, who gave the government the Patriot Act and various other tools of power. Then, fresh out of that fiasco, Americans voted for Obama who is giving the government the very people themselves.

And of course, thanks to Bush's anti-"terrorist" laws, the ability to organize any real force-bearing opposition is gone. All that's left is for Obama to drive ammunition up to 10 dollars a bullet, and we have no force to bear anyways. And that's what America voted for.

Ladies and Gentleman, we are the oddballs. We are the ones clinging to a way of life - freedom - that America has collectively voted to discard. Who are we to impose our freedom on 300 million people who do not want it?

Maybe it's time for us all to find a new place to move on to. Surely, there's some destitute third world country that would embrace our ideas of liberty, justice, prosperity, and human rights with open arms.

I personally don't care where I'm free, as long as I am.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by mattifikation]

reply to post by Iago18

I agree. The people will be systematically opposed with one another. Just as planned. The seeds of this are all over the threads about this. You will either be with them or against them and deemed an enemy of the STATE. I am ashamed that all that our defenders of freedom have done for us is being flushed down the toilet.

If you noticed all the rhetoric in Obama's speech tonight kept talking about Investments in Education, Energy and Health, this is what he is speaking of. He is feeding it to the people in small spoonfuls. It will be a "needed" thing. Not one network news station is covering this bill. I can see through every word that comes from his socialist mouth.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by azurite

 

Timewalker already posted the bill passing in the House. It is a scary thought though. Communist if you ask me, kids in elementary schools, mandatory servitude.

You got that right and do not trust obama he is a man that speaketh with forked tongue. Endoctrination of our youth to spy on whoever they are told to surveillance. You said that right mandatory servitude to obama.

One thing to remember is back to the earliest teachings of our Founders, and those who our Founders held in highest esteem.

I am not in favor of Democracy. It is, quite possibly, as Aristotle and Madison would agree, the worst form of government humanly imaginable. I don't use hyperbole in this. Rather, it is the form of government that is most likely to lead to a tyranny through a demagogue.

What is a demagogue, you ask?

It refers to a political strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public — typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist or populist themes. -Wikipedia (quite frankly the best source of information around)

So, America, does this political strategy sound familiar? I believe it should. Over the past decade, we have drawn closer and closer to a democratic form of government. This is in part due to the rise of the internet and the interconnectedness of people.

We must remember that the vast majority of people should not govern, and should not have their hands anywhere near the steering wheel of the ship of state. Granted, there are a few people who are in the know on this board who may disagree with me, and I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. However, anticipating some, I would say that humanity has not reached a point yet where individuals can effectively move beyond government, and are not perfect enough to have a single ruler who is a benevolent dictator.

Seeing this, I posit that the American polity is the closest form of government yet conceived by men that adequately reflects the real human nature. Certainly the best people aren't going to be the leaders, but, even if the worst are in power, the system still allows for the continuation of the state.

So, what's the plan? Well, that's the bad part. Have we progressed too far from the founding documents and too far down the slippery slope to make effective repairs? Have we reached that point that was acknowledged by every one of our Founders? Have the policies of this nation (not just Obama, but the culmination of events) triggered the right to revolution?

I caution you that (in accordance with the Rules) I don't have an answer to these questions. But, if I were in power in the government, I would be very sure that the people have the wool pulled over their eyes long enough so that, when they realize that they are now powerless, it is already too late.

EDIT:

On another note, please look at Section 198B of 1388:

1) AREA OF NATIONAL NEED- The term `area of national need' means an area involved in efforts to-- `(A) improve education in schools for economically disadvantaged students; `(B) expand and improve access to health care; `(C) improve energy efficiency and conserve natural resources; `(D) improve economic opportunities for economically disadvantaged individuals; or `(E) improve disaster preparedness and response.

In particular, (E). Let's see... does any of this frighten you?

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Iago18]

reply to post by mattifikation

Maybe it's time for us all to find a new place to move on to. Surely, there's some destitute third world country that would embrace our ideas of liberty, justice, prosperity, and human rights with open arms.

I personally don't care where I'm free, as long as I am.

I am starting to feel this way. If you can't beat them, I sure as hell won't join them. I can't even seem to win over members of my own family. We will be greatly outnumbered by the brain dead zombies. There is not enough bullets.

reply to post by mattifikation


I agree with you, it doesn't matter where you live, but rather how you live.

I prefer to live free, i will not live as a slave.

Well I'm convinced my state senators are worthless now. Both voted yes to this. I actually had some hope that one was about to consider my words.

History repeats itself. And this time it will be worse that ever.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Scarcer]

So does anyone know the punishment for restistance?
I don't know but I've got a feeling we're going to find out.
Any of you got a sniper rifle? if you do buy boxes and boxes of ammo
The higher the demand for ammo, the more ammo will be manufactured.
Guns are a great alternitive for an investment. Let the revolution begin.

When laws are dealt in truth, true rights are justified.
When laws are dealt in lies, true rights are forgotten.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by lawbringer]

Some of you people amaze me. You take and take and take from everyone else in this country, and when someone finally makes it to where you might POSSIBLY have to do a little work for someone else, you flip your lids. Come on people, have a little empathy. If I have to be a slave for a few days, or even a few weeks, to help get the things done that need getting done, I will. But I guess that's just me, I mean, I already volunteered my life for this country, so I guess I'm biased. You all talk about "waking up," and you call each other sheep. All you're really doing is making it perfectly clear how selfish and self-centered you are. If "waking up" to you means putting yourself first before those around you, then I think I'll stay asleep. I remember when waking up meant realizing that there are things out there that are bigger than you, and it meant that we all worked together for the greater good.

Having said all that, I don't disagree that we shouldn't cautious about all this, one thing could definitely lead to another. But don't be so quick to condemn everything that comes from this administration as evil before you think about it from multiple angles. Think about the extreme benefit this could have, our workforce could be DOUBLED! Our deteriorating infrastructure, which is in need of some long-overdue repairs, could be fixed in a fraction of the time it will take going at the current rate.

I don't know... maybe I'm naive... but then again, maybe you are too.

Rebuild our infrastructure ? Well I would gladly take it as a job, a paid job. As my grandfather did in WWII in the CCC camps. I have worked my entire adult life and paid my taxes, 1/3 of my crappy salary, and my state car registration that was supposed to pay for all this infrastructure that has rotted away because they already squandered all that money away for useless wars and to line the pockets of the elite. Now we bail out everything else and enlist our children and elderly to rebuild the infrastructure that I already paid for. You be a slave don't knock me for not wanting to be one with you. BAHHHHHH



[edit on 25-3-2009 by timewalker]

Originally posted by dwiggen
Some of you people amaze me. You take and take and take from everyone else in this country, and when someone finally makes it to where you might POSSIBLY have to do a little work for someone else, you flip your lids. Come on people, have a little empathy. If I have to be a slave for a few days, or even a few weeks, to help get the things done that need getting done, I will. But I guess that's just me, I mean, I already volunteered my life for this country, so I guess I'm biased. You all talk about "waking up," and you call each other sheep. All you're really doing is making it perfectly clear how selfish and self-centered you are. If "waking up" to you means putting yourself first before those around you, then I think I'll stay asleep. I remember when waking up meant realizing that there are things out there that are bigger than you, and it meant that we all worked together for the greater good.

Having said all that, I don't disagree that we shouldn't cautious about all this, one thing could definitely lead to another. But don't be so quick to condemn everything that comes from this administration as evil before you think about it from multiple angles. Think about the extreme benefit this could have, our workforce could be DOUBLED! Our deteriorating infrastructure, which is in need of some long-overdue repairs, could be fixed in a fraction of the time it will take going at the current rate.

I don't know... maybe I'm naive... but then again, maybe you are too.

At what cost? Do we willingly submit our bodies to Obama's ideas of what is right an just? If so, must we also submit our ideologies so that we agree with the "service"? And after that?

Do we submit our children and their minds to the influence of the corrupt?

Frankly, I can empathize with your point. This is the kind of legislation that makes you think that us CT-ists are simply loons looking at the smile of a non-existent Cheshire cat and pointing wildly into the air.

But, then again, the similarities to history are there. Technology and places change, but men are fairly predictable.

What is the Battlestar line (shooting my credibility to hell) "All this has happened before, and it will happen again"

Cue ... All Along the Watchtower

At what cost? Do we willingly submit our bodies to Obama's ideas of what is right an just? If so, must we also submit our ideologies so that we agree with the "service"? And after that?


I will say this in response: I don't believe that this is about Obama, it's about the entirety of the human species. I can understand not wanting to work for an obviously corrupt system doing obviously corrupt labor. But I feel that the work that would be accomplished by this would be for the good of us all.

As for our children being influenced by the corrupt: if we were to all care a little more for one another, and work together to achieve a commonly held goal, would corruption be nearly as prominent or widespread?

My original post was not me bashing on "CT-ists," I've done my own fair share of research on such things. I just don't feel as if this particular situation is worth starting a revolution over. Now when they try to take away my rights, then I'll be up in arms. But I don't feel as if a little "forced" labor is worth fighting about.

(p.s. thank you for being civil haha!)

[edit on 25-3-2009 by dwiggen]

reply to post by dwiggen


I'm sorry but i don't take from anybody, i've worked for what i have.

Just what exactly is it that we're supposed to be having empathy about ?

If you choose to be enslaved that is your right, but don't expect others to accept it happily, or at all for that matter.

You volunteered your life for this country, i have the upmost respect for any person that does this. However the point is that you VOLUNTEERED, you were not forced. You volunteered your life for the service of a free country, to defend it's freedoms, it will no longer be a free country if people are enslaved. This mandatory servitude that they are trying to pass is in direct defiance of our thirteenth amendment, and therefore unconstitutional.

Not wanting to be enslaved by forced servitude is niether selfish, nor self centered. And people working together for the greater good means it is done voluntarily, not that it's been forced upon them.

No matter which angle you view it by forced servitude is slavery, and that can never be good for a country, or it's people.

reply to post by dwiggen


Do you by any chance know what socialism is? It means in simple terms GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EVERYTHING! Quit hidding in the dark
we must act! It is a simple fact, when government is more, freedom is less. Controling where we work, controling our heath care, controling our youth, controling our guns, we must RESIST!!! If Obama fails we win our freedom. We want Obama to fail because we want socialism to fail. A people reliant on government to solve their problems are doomed to have the government decide their rights.