John Lear on Coast to Coast AM 3/23/09

Why the hell would he be promoting UFO's then???!??

Originally posted by converge
How people still believe or give any thought to a word John Lear says is beyond me.

Looking at his background, the timing of his appearance on the UFO scene and the things he has said over the years I think it's highly probable that Lear is still working for the Government.

Originally posted by atsbeliever
Why the hell would he be promoting UFO's then???!??

He's polluting the field with his outrageous stories that have no foundation whatsoever. He has effectively helped degrade the credibility of the whole field.

The only thing Lear has promoted is the idea that the UFO field is not serious and no one (who considers himself/herself serious) should pay attention.

If you think that just because Lear talks about UFOs and Government conspiracies he's not working for the Government, then you don't understand how disinformation works.

For anyone who misses a show or can't listen to it live, you can go to CJOB Audio Vault.

www.cjob.com...

Been a while since I listened to this show, so I'm gonna check out a few dates...

reply to post by Chupa


Sorry, but what time and date should I be serching for?

This show starts at 12am, Mar23. Skip to 6 minutes 22 seconds.

reply to post by atsbeliever

Why the hell would he be promoting UFO's then???!??

Lear seems to have got more and more outrageous as time has passed. I stopped taking him serious when he stated that there was a spirit catcher on the moon!
As someone who is widely seen as a UFO nutter I think he would be the perfect candidate to work for the government as a disinformation agent. The more he talks about the subject the less likely it is that the general public will take the subject seriously.

Oh I have a gut instinct that the story is true, why wouldnt it be? I liked their explaination of why they chose Lazzar. Makes sense to me.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by atsbeliever
Why the hell would he be promoting UFO's then???!??

He's polluting the field with his outrageous stories that have no foundation whatsoever. He has effectively helped degrade the credibility of the whole field.

The only thing Lear has promoted is the idea that the UFO field is not serious and no one (who considers himself/herself serious) should pay attention.

If you think that just because Lear talks about UFOs and Government conspiracies he's not working for the Government, then you don't understand how disinformation works.

Agreed. John Lear is sort of following the footsteps of David Shayler. They appear to be "on your side", later they end up say ludicrous things, so that real interest or research would be killed.


I don't trust John Lear and never bother to listen to the man.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


Listen on the web. Most AM and FM stations stream their content. You can choose a station that is not even in your home state. I am in Arizona, but I listen in on stations in Texas and Colorado over the internet.


IF John Lear were a disinfo agent, then you would think that the government would have let him keep his gold mine as a reward instead of taking it away from him.


[edit on 3-23-2009 by groingrinder]

Somehow, I believe that John is being sincere and telling the truth as he sees it. But once he starts talking about the soul-catcher on the moon, etc..; that's when people don't take him seriously, or think that's he a lying disinfo agent. Although sometimes I do get that feeling, I still don't think that is the case.

Nobody knows everything, nobody is 100% correct. Not John Lear, not David Icke, not David Sereda, not Stanton Friedman, etc.. I try to take a little bit info from each of them, and sort it out -so to speak.

For me personally, I think that Richard Dolan is the best. Nick Pope is also pretty good. Because they don't exaggerate, they don't make claims as to something they are unsure of, and they take a fairly conservative approach when discussing the UFO/ET subject whether in mainstream or in an interview; so as not to put-off anyone interested in the subject.

I definitely share John's opinion when he speaks of CIA related stuff. I believe him when he says that the Mossad were the ones behind the assassination of JFK.

John is mostly a proponent of the moon bases and solar system anomalies, less so when it comes to UFOs. And his research along with the others at Pegasus is excellent.

reply to post by Majorion

Nick Pope is also pretty good.

Believe me you are placing your faith in one of the biggest disinfo agents on the planet. I knew and talked to Ralph Noyes when he was in the British SPR. He did a similar job to Pope decades ago and he said that not only would Nick not have access to the real gun camera film and real information concerning UFOs, but he wouldn't even be able to visit the same floor in the building where it was stored. Also, the government wouldn't tell him what secret technology they had at their disposal. Put it all together and what you get is someone who doesn't know the real information concerning UFOs and doesn't know what the government has flying about in British skies, yet he turns up on television all the time spouting this nonsense about what he learnt in Secretariat Airspace 2a. While working there he was told nothing of any importance. He was basically a buffer to relay information in the form of sightings from the general public to various sections of the armed forces who dealt and investigated such unexplained sightings to see if they were of defence significance.He was only the equivelent rank of a captain while serving there. Even the Americans didn't take him seriously as everytime he tried to contact his counter-part on the other side of the pond they didn't want to know him.
Pope is an opportunist. he has used his position to sell his books and draw people into his lectures but take it from me, he knows nothing about what's really going on.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

Hello Mintwithahole.

I respect your opinion, and you bring up some good points, but I disagree with Nick being a disinfo agent. What disinformation has he spread?.. I agree that his access to UFO info is limited, but as I was saying before, he takes the approach of a conservative in this field.. he used to be a skeptic, before he looked at all the files the UK are releasing now, and people used to call him a disinfo agent back then as well.

reply to post by Majorion


Hi Majorion, as you say, it's only my point of view but in the early nineties Pope had a long running spat with a known disinfo agent and agent provecateur, Tim Hepple, who declared that most UFOs came from captured nazi technology. They were supposed to dispise one another. . .and then a picture surfaced which showed the two of them enjoying a friendly pint or three together.
As far as I'm concerned the only knowledge Nick has about UFOs comes from the telephone conversations he took from witnesses and the written reports which crossed his desk. The real info, which the likes of you and I would love to hear about, was kept well out of his reach.
Take care.

reply to post by Majorion


Sorry I forgot to answer this.

What disinformation has he spread?..

One of the things Pope always spouts on about is how he doesn't believe there is a cover up in the UK but our problem is more down to ignorance. Isn't it just possible he is being paid by the government he used to work for, to say such things? Could Pope be the guy the government pays to keep the British people calm when in fact those in the know are terrified at what may be behind the UFO mystery. . .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
As someone who is widely seen as a UFO nutter I think he would be the perfect candidate to work for the government as a disinformation agent.

Let's not forget that Lear worked for the CIA. This is not a secret, Lear himself doesn't deny this. In fact he has told a few stories from his CIA days here on ATS including on the ATS Mix.

It's funny that a person like Lear who is apparently aware of these huge and complex Government conspiracies, when asked about his involvement and what he was transporting for the CIA in his Continental Air Services/Air America days, Lear apparently was just an innocent fool.

As Lars Hansson in his book/affidavit Lear and Loathing in Las Vegas puts it, and raises interesting questions:

When Bill Colby, former CIA director who openly admitted the extermination of over 40,000 non-combatant Vietnamese by the CIA's Phoenix Program, thanks Lear in a copy of his book, Lost Victory, "for all your contributions," one must ask just exactly what those contributions were, when they began and if they have ended. Lear admitted to me on audiotape in the summer of 1990 that his own fellow pilots at Continental Air Services in Laos admitted flying opium, and that it was common knowledge that Air America pilots carried it routinely, but insisted he was not aware of the activity at the time he was there.

Let's not forget the timing John Lear popped up on the UFO scene: at a time when there were talks and hints of releasing Government documents alleging to prove the cover-up (the MJ-12 documents).

Lear then picked up many of the things depicted in those documents, gave them a different spin and made up his own stories. The majority of the MJ-12 documents are in all likelihood fakes, as Bill Moore and Stan Friedman themselves admit.

Bill More in fact, in 1989 left the field and set it on fire when in the MUFON symposium he made the infamous revelation that he had agreed to spread disinformation in exchange for receiving inside information from Government agents (Richard Doty & others).

Let's not forget the numerous (in many cases serious) UFO researchers who have been accused of being Government agents by Lear, including Moore and Friedman.

And more recently, let's not forget how Lear after leaving ATS gave an interview to Project Camelot and claimed ATS is a counter-intelligence program and he knew it all along.

The picture we're left with is that John Lear is, in my opinion, at best a self-aggrandizing story teller.

Personally I think Lear is more than just a story teller, and as someone once, perhaps wisely, said "no one ever leaves the Agency".


[edit on 23-3-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Isn't it just possible he is being paid by the government he used to work for, to say such things?

Yes, I do believe that Mr. Pope knows more than he tells. And he is probably operating under very strict and specific instructions from his government. Of course he cannot come out flat out say; "yes, the UK government is lying to everyone and covering stuff up". I believe that if there is a disclosure process occurring, then Nick is on it.

Do you also notice how the release of the files is gradual? .. gradual disclosure perhaps?

reply to post by Majorion
Hiya Majorian, how's things? I agree with the points raised by you and TheMintWithAHole. Pope has no more access to information than anyone else. He wasn't a big wheel and if I recall correctly, he was originally seconded to his MOD post. I don't think he's a 'disinfo agent' (BS merchant in English), just a standard guy making a living the only way he can. He's fairly conservative and hasn't made any outrageous claims that I've read about.

Like Mint, I remember when he first appeared and his mild-mannered persona helped to lend credence to a subject perpetually dogged by nutters, liars and BS merchants. When a media outlet decides to adopt a more serious tone, Pope is often the talking head that is wheeled before the camera. In that sense, he's added more to the UFO subject than many others.

To avoid going OT, Lear is a very different character. He has detracted from the serious attention UFO phenomena could achieve. 'Secret astronaut Corps', soul catchers and who knows what else haven't helped the subject gain credibility. 9/11 being engineered so that the War in Iraq could lead to the war in Afghanistan to commandeer the drugs trade and fund black ops to maintain our secret Moon bases in a war against aliens? How can ideas like that bring anything other than ridicule to the whole subject? He's a wrecking ball. Whether he believes it or is paid or manipulated is redundant. He generates discussion and what else?

(Mint, you should change your mood to 'bloody ecstatic'. When did the Reds last string three big wins together? Class!)

reply to post by Majorion

Yes, I do believe that Mr. Pope knows more than he tells. And he is probably operating under very strict and specific instructions from his government. Of course he cannot come out flat out say; "yes, the UK government is lying to everyone and covering stuff up". I believe that if there is a disclosure process occurring, then Nick is on it.

It seems the only thing you and I disagree on is how important is Nick Pope to the British government when it comes to the subject of UFOs?
I think he's just another guy who used to work for them who is being mislead, wholely or maybe partly, by his once paymasters to keep the British people in the dark. You seem to think he's part of some slow trickle of information which is designed to slowly let the cat out of the bag. Who knows? Only time will tell.

more links that should work:

www.fantasticforum.com...

www.ksyl.com...

www.klif.com...

1290whio.com...

www.kfyi.com...

cjobam.corusradionetwork.com...

www.590klbj.com streams it nightly 10pm-4am central (US Time)


You can listen LIVE here on Toronto talk radio....:cfmjam.corusradionetwork.com... - although a bit late for the listen live - could be a useful in the future!

I didn't listen to the show but I like John Lear and it is a real shame he isn't here at ATS anymore. I went to the openmindsforum where he is.

Sometimes I shake my head that one is not believed because the proof that is available isn't good enough for you.

I know I have written until I was blue in the face and so have others here about the knowledge they have on this subject and it's your lose for not listening.... as I say, "you snooze you lose."