The coming evangelical collapse

What comes next?: Just look at Europe, Islam and Sharia law.

Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants. --William Penn

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by fatdad
some people are so afraid of the dark that they think an invisable man in the sky will keep the bad things away.....i would also ad that the local churches near me only call at my door when they need money and never to give any...

I have never, ever had a church come to my door and ask for money.

Where on earth do you live?

He must be talking about the Reverend Barack Obama.

Line 2

I think it will lead to anti-Christian backlash. The more I study religion the less religious I become. The more I study science the more my faith is strengthened. I have a balance here though, I don't wanna see Christians hurt because of their faith.

It's already happening in Europe. The UN is passing anti-Defamation laws pushed by Islamic fundamentalists, we're allowing it to happen. And it isn't ok. Every time in history we've outlawed or marginalized someone because of their beliefs it's been pretty bloody. That said, religion has played a bigger role in mass death than any secular authority in history...Secularism is a relatively new thing when compared to theocratic rule. What I don't want to see secularism become is restrictive. Secular governments and societies should be only as secular as public policy is concerned, and NOT legislating against of for any form of faith thereof.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 22-3-2009 by projectvxn]

This anticipated 'Evangelical' collapse... might have something to do with prophecy itself.

In Rev. & Dan. (2 prophetic books)
It is clearly stated in one Book,
And alluded to in the other Book
that many will ~~ flee to the mountains, saying, hide us among the rocks...~~

Will? the Fundies & Evangelicals soon hide themselves among the rocks & caves-> as the early Christian cult did->hiding in secrecy among the subterranian caves & cities we have discovered in modern Turkey,
the area called Cappadocia.... see:

Early Christian Church in Turkey Tour

Visit the cave church where Saint Peter first celebrated Mass. ... Early
inhabitants carved the soft volcanic rock to create underground ... to become entire cities where as many as six thousand Christians hid to escape persecution
. ...
www.turkeycentral.com... - 16k - similar pages

((ADD: hey, i'm not plugging the tour...i'm just showing the industry surrounding christianity in general...))


Why will these evagelicals flee to remote places of safety...
maybe because their 'Rapture' tells them to seperate from the corrupt society...
so, in the larger picture this forecast of a marked decrease of Evangelical
Saving-Souls, is not a actual collapse of the system/idealogy, its more a case of an organized retreat from the front lines of in-your-face-preaching


thank goodness,

[edit on 22-3-2009 by St Udio]

Good. They're holding this country (America) down ...

Nothing has warped, perverted, and destroyed the human psyche as much as religion. Of course traditional Christianity is going to fade over time with technological revolution because with a free marketplace of ideas and communication an absolute joke of a belief structure such as Christianity will be stamped out as new generations will have access to the history of such religion and all the controversial aspects and motivations for Christianity. There will always be a sect of Christianity because religion is a mental illness but hardcore Christians being anywhere near places of importance will start to fade over time.

I pray for a day when Christians are stamped out of any form of public life.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

If evangelical Christianity is going down in flames, then I say good riddance. Simply rebuke the idiocy of Christianity now and believe in the real god. The one that makes sense and comes to you in logical ways. Not the one that has a club and is ready to swing it at whoever is in his path.

In other words, the only way to avoid a holocaust would be for the rational Christians to wake up and stop being dimwits. The choice is theirs. Holocaust, or peaceful transference into rational thought.

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Nothing has warped, perverted, and destroyed the human psyche as much as religion. Of course traditional Christianity is going to fade over time with technological revolution because with a free marketplace of ideas and communication an absolute joke of a belief structure such as Christianity will be stamped out as new generations will have access to the history of such religion and all the controversial aspects and motivations for Christianity. There will always be a sect of Christianity because religion is a mental illness but hardcore Christians being anywhere near places of importance will start to fade over time.

I pray for a day when Christians are stamped out of any form of public life.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Eh a bit harsh.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

n.ireland...i get people at the door as well as envelopes preaddressed pushed through the letterbox when they need money asking for donations to the church roof etc..

reply to post by Wertdagf


LOL funny you come on a Conspiracy Forum and Mock people who Believe in somthing they have proof of!

I think Christianity will probably fade over time, but I hope it's not out of anger... There's no point in being mad at someone for a belief, that's one of the main problems we have as humans.
People need to decide for themselves what to believe and not be forced either way.
I'd rather see a 'pro-logic' movement than an anti-Christian movement.
May the best side win .

reply to post by Wertdagf

LOL If a christian thumps a bible no one is around to hear it does your magical god still exist?

If the xtians are not around thumping bibles, will we still exist ?

Just wanted to remind people that so called "Rational" Secular thought in the form of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the People's Republic of China and World War 2 killed more people than any religion, plague, or natural disaster in history.

Yet people blame religion for their ills.

The truth is that without religion, life is meaningless and without values.

Without value life descends into nihilism, libertine sadism, and genocide.

This can be seen repeatedly in history from the French Revolution to Mao.

Humans need values regardless if they come from Platonic philosopher kings or new values from transhuman ubermensch. The alternative is self destruction, collapse and eventual extinction.



[edit on 22/3/09 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by genomega
What comes next?: Just look at Europe, Islam and Sharia law.

Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants. --William Penn

Those who will not be governed by god, will neither be governed by Allah -- Moocowman

reply to post by MikeboydUS

The truth is that without religion, life is meaningless and without values.

Then clearly you are ignorant of all the truth, there is no religion in my life but it has meaning, which is the meaning I give it. There are morals in my life but they are the morals i give my self, in many ways my morals are of a far higher standard to that of the Abrahamic god of the bibles, which in many way I find totally repulsive.

Your statement omitted the word "My" as you can only speak for yourself.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Just wanted to remind people that so called "Rational" Secular thought in the form of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the People's Republic of China and World War 2 killed more people than any religion, plague, or natural disaster in history.

Hmm...
It'd be interesting to count all the deaths just to be sure .
But comparing evils doesn't make the lesser of the evil less evil than it was to begin with .

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Yet people blame religion for their ills.

Not many people do.
However, I'd say our greatest threat would be a nuclear war driven by religious extremists.
I'll say this, religion is like alcohol. In moderation, it will get you tipsy, in excess, it will make you crazy.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The truth is that without religion, life is meaningless and without values.

Aww...
So all the good things I do are meaningless because I don't believe in an invisible deity?
I hardly see how human emotions and our involvement in societal laws in any way relates to God anymore than it does Zeus...
Time to start being honest with yourself.

An atheist can live a good life with meaning and values.
A Christian can live a bad life with no meaning or values except to believe he/she is better than those who don't observe the meanings and values that said Christian believes him/herself to be following in the first place.

The belief isn't what matters, the action IS what matters.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Without value life descends into nihilism, libertine sadism, and genocide.

Perhaps, but here's the kicker: WE decide what has value
Personally, I find value in being a generally good person.
You don't need to believe in miracles to be a good person.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Humans need values regardless if they come from Platonic philosopher kings or new values from transhuman ubermensch. The alternative is self destruction, collapse and eventual extinction.

But what do values have to do with religion?
You don't need to be religious to have values!

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
There will always be a sect of Christianity because religion is a mental illness but hardcore Christians being anywhere near places of importance will start to fade over time.

I pray for a day when Christians are stamped out of any form of public life.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Now it's a mental illness ? HA HA HA HA what ya do guy, get this from the Zoo Keeper Dick Dawkins book or Sam Harris? Or maybe the perpetually inebriated Vodka Vomiting Vulture Christopher Hitchens is more your style? A mental Illness is it? You sound a lot like one of the Rational Response Squad with such tender sensitivities to harbor such angst aggression for a Religion that has turned more lives around from the brink of self destruction, famine, homelessness and infirmity than you'll ever know or believe because people like you actually seek out the worst of religions examples as if you think having people see how imperfect how flawed its followers are you can high five yourself in an almost richter scale climax of self congratulatory pomp and glorious celebration.

You go and spread your gospel of bigotry for Christianity with your erroneuous assertions of the Philopsphy being a mental illness, leaving not a single link or citation to substantiate such extreme vitriolic and venomous diatribe. You feed your anger your hatred of religion by reading more websites by people like yourself that have issues with what religion reminds them of and how convicted you feel by those you exaggerate have "shoved it down your throat" .

I have seen and met the type before and invariably they have their own kind of religion and they are every bit as much a zealot, every bit as terminally self righteous as any hell fire brimstone Baptist Preacher I have ever met. While you cite only the bad religion does bringing up the same list of injustices the crusades, salem blah blah blah, we have been the backbone of this society and many more, giving more than we have the resources for yet no organization is ridiculed for asking of the generosity for noble and worthwhile causes, more than Religion.

While many give in the name of religious causes, Atheists only announce the many wars in Religions name saying no war have ever been started in Atheism's name. Yet when I ask what good does Atheist's do for the hungry and homeless they proudly boast of two Atheists Bill Gates and Warren Buffets guargantuan charitable contributions and again they express an almost sardonic grin,, as they revel in the self aggrandizing pomp and puffery, I remind them,,

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet never gave a dime,,

in Atheism's name

This is not a surprise in fact the bible prophesied both the collapse and destruction of organized religion

Now I know there are some that will agree only with half of that, and not the bible part.

But the book of Revelation talks about it, all the atheists and those that hate and despise the bible and it's principles are going to get to celebrate, but it will be a short lived celebration. Because after a brief period of tribulation for all humanity, God will send Christ and all the angels into battle at Armageddon.

So yes it will happen, but the endgame is not what you think.

Obama made a really interesting speech too that is foreshadowing some of this.

The most important speech Barack Obama gave on faith came before he launched his presidential campaign. On June 26, 2006, he spoke at Jim Wallis's Call to Renewal conference, laying out a critique not only of the Religious Right but of the secular left. He argued that while Democrats should support separation of church and state, they needed to be more welcoming of believers and the proper role of faith in the public square.

Of note from this speech

And I speak with some experience on this matter. I was not raised in a particularly religious household, as undoubtedly many in the audience were. My father, who returned to Kenya when I was just two, was born Muslim but as an adult became an atheist. My mother, whose parents were non-practicing Baptists and Methodists, was probably one of the most spiritual and kindest people I've ever known, but grew up with a healthy skepticism of organized religion herself. As a consequence, so did I.

AND

Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers. And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.

reply to post by moocowman


Thats one of the problems with the lack of any set values is your existential example.

Your values become yours and yours alone. In this existential world of people creating their own selfish values not all values are equal. It would be utter anarchy with everyone defining their values in any way possible.

With the death of religion all that is left is nihilism. Values are set by the individual and only have meaning to that individual. With the death of that individual his values die with him.

Only the strongest would survive.

Leaving two alternatives: a return to platonic idealism, aka religion, or new values set by what the philosopher Nietzsche calls the Ubermensch.

Without set values all there is left is barbarism.

reply to post by Wertdagf


At first blush, I would share that sentiment. However, the problem with religion is not found within it's bronze age parables and archaic laws, but in it's tendency to be co-opted by fundamentalist and radical elements. This is a real problem, because the dismantling of religion will not eliminate fundamentalism. It will simply manifest more vigorously in other facets of our society - such as politics and economics - as those with fundamentalist worldviews find other causes and banners to support.

The combination of Fundamentalism and Patriotism/Nationalism can be every bit as disastrous as the combination of Fundamentalism and Religion.

I can only hope that Evangelical Christianity collapses as soon as possible, as fundamentalism is not just tolerated by them - it's actively endorsed as a positive attribute that should be nurtured... and they are seeking to align themselves with politics by embedding themselves so deeply into the conservative party, that most people don't even know what Conservatives stand for anymore. They have hi-jacked the party, which is now known more or less synonymous with the "Religious Right".

Should I remind everyone what happened to Western society the last time a secular government was co-opted by religious fundamentalists?



In light of this video, however, I should mention that (although suspected) Cyril was never actually proven by any measure we can verify today to be the instigator of the event. It was, however, perpetrated by fundamentalists - possibly Nitrian Monks - who viewed knowledge as a pagan affront to their holy doctrines.. and the secular government of Alexandria as haven of debauchery and heathens.

In contrast, there was a substantial population of moderate Christians in the city and the Church. Many of them were students of the Library in Alexandria or Athens who held Orestes, the Library, and Hypatia in high regard. The video mentions that Hypatia's story was co-opted by Christianity into the story of St. Cathrine.. but why? Because of this deep rooted respect and admiration for their accomplishments and their society to which they could not publicly be seen to support. It was a way to tell her story, and keep her legacy alive, without betraying their admiration to the fundamentalist hardliners which infested the Church.

Perhaps it's the ultimate irony that Hypatia, by all rights an atheist who triumphed logic and reason over superstition and revelation, would become an even more highly regarded saint than that of St. Cyril, who many blame for her murder.