Reasons for school shootings?

Reasons for school shootings?

I got an answer for you.. They are from forcing introverts do participate in an extreme extrovert educational process.

Nothing is more uncomfortable than an introvert to be forced into a extrovert system..

Push them too far, and that is when you get the shootings.

reply to post by Merigold


This is going off subject now but by focusing on the larger entity of "society" you are taking on a task that is impossible to complete thereby freeing yourself of any real responsibility. If you take care of yours and I mine that creates two less units for filth to spread to both creating a proper example for those close to our units and making it less comfortable for those close to our units to devolve into a trash-like state.

Trying to make everything better for some imaginary all encapsulating entity like "society" and thinking it will make the day to day lives of people better is like building a giant mirror to halt global warming while throwing trash out of your car window.

I know, you're "doing both" , right? Well what does that mean? Pumping insane amounts of money into systems that have after 50 some-odd years not shown any progress whatsoever while simultaneously telling your children this is "the only way?"

Doing that makes my job harder as the benefits of servitude and dependency begin to outweigh the benefits of hard work and sincerity and you get asked "dad, why bother working?"

Originally posted by wiredamerican
Reasons for school shootings?

I got an answer for you.. They are from forcing introverts do participate in an extreme extrovert educational process.


I could not disagree with you more and think that perhaps the exact opposite is a major source of the problem. In society today there is an assualt on boys. This can be validated through a variety of statistics. Drop out rates, drug and alcohol abuse, criminal behavior, college graduation rates, on and on

In today's schools, they simply don't want to deal with a spirited boy. They consistently look to feminize young men, which is why there are so many boys on perscription drugs. Anti-depressants, mood elevators, anti-psychotics, you name it. I have three sons and therefore, through interaction with other familys know of numerous normal boys who's teachers brought in the parents and told them that their child needed to be on some kind of drug. I have a daughter as well and anyone who has a child of both sexes can tell you. Boys and girls are not the same and that difference is very stark in the grammer school years. Schools today want boys to sit quietly and behave like girls and it is simply not going to work. It is not genetically supposed to be that way. One other way to look at this problem is through this prisim. Take a normal, spirited boy and force him on a cocktail of mood elevators, anti-depressants and keep him on them for years. Due to the nature of these drugs and the way the medical industry operates, he is likely to be on many different cocktails over the years. Not only are his parents allowing his maturing brain to be permanently altered and not for the better, he is being told that he needs to be on drugs for what? For being a normal kid? Now that kid begins to live within his own mind, every day when he takes his meds he gets validation that something is wrong with him (while else would he need to take the meds anyway). Some percentage of these kids snap.

Who's fault is this? The parents. You can blame the school for pushing the drugs on familys, but it is the parents who are to blame. If a
teacher told me to put my kid on drugs, I'd tell them to get stabbed.

Again, I don't feel that this is the responsibility of the schools. This is a family issue, plain and simple. Take responsible for your kid. Go ahead and put yourself out - meet his friends. Meet their parents. Restrict what he/she does on-line. Better yet, only let them go on-line in a public place in your house. Go ahead and be a jerk - look in his room. Violate his/her privacy. You have a right - no you have an obligation to know what is going on in your own home. Just about all of these kids have secret lives that "nobody" knew about. In some of these cases, the parents should be held criminally responsible.

I am also sorry. If your kid is a geek or extremely introverted, you have a harder job as a parent, as does a parent with a child who is not very bright or a child who is extremely bright. It is your responsibility to seek ways to help that child adapt. Maybe its a different activity. Maybe its martial arts, maybe its going to a private or charter school. Whatever it is that needs to be done to be an effective parent, it is your job to see that it be done. It is also your job to raise them in such a manner that they can face the world with out a chip on their shoulders and laden with envy.

I am sick and tired of folks blaming society for every thing that does not go well in someone's life and how cruel the world is.

The reason for school shootings is that the teachers are not good parents. They are enforcers that just inforce order. If some ones getting punched/hit or being called names, its fine because the one getting abuse is "ignoring" it, so they get to be lazy. As soon as the one "ignoring" does the same back, theres a "fight" and the victim is seen as the one who starts it and their parents trust the teachers that the victim is the one started it.

Way back when (before 1975 at least), when there were problems the teachers would let the fights happen and let the victims have a chance at proving them selves. Now the way it stands, the victims don't have any recourse, no way out and if their parents think they are the ones who started fights (no trust), then the kid also has nothing left to lose. Igorning doesn't work, fights don't work (its never one on one any more), so killing seems like a way of ridding the problem and turning the tables of fear/abuse. Telling a teacher about your problems never does anything other then the teacher ignoring or telling the bully to stop, that doesn't do anything unless you say the bully has a knife or gun, even then...

Now the world is our class room and the govt is the bully and we are talking about killing the govt for taking away our guns and rights. Do we have the right to have guns in school or have the right to defend our selves? We can ignore the govt or change it without guns or violence, or we can toughen up and accept it as our new life, the govt only wants order.

reply to post by rawsom


why does everything have to be complicated.

I was bullied at school, we had elitists in class, we had school fights...
But that is growing up.

i didn't know how to use guns until military and had war in my country when i was teenage.
maybe normal parents with no guns in front of me?

maybe answer is parenthood with guns in house.
teach a kid that guns are normal
let him hunt
and then hire 50 psychologists to find why did he kill all bully imbecils in school.

There's some interesting replies here.

I don't think it's helpful to say things such as 'well, when I was a kid, we had X + Y + Z happening too and we didn't have this kind of thing happening!' It's only really helpful to see look at the new factors that have been introduced; what's different rather than the same.

I think the answer is that we live in (ostensibly American) culture that is significantly different than 20, 30 and 40 years ago. For one, there's more of it. As weird as it sounds, there's actually more culture than there was before. There's more influence, more stimuli, more choice.

We live in a world that's larger (how many international friends did you speak to regularly compared to your own children or your nephews and nieces) than when you were a child but at the same, it's a world that's arguably more fragmented and disconnected than it was when you were a child. Very few people are still lucky enough to enjoy any sense of 'local community'.

We live in a world that's generally unhappier than it was a couple of decades ago. America now knows what it's like to feel as if it's been attacked by the outside for the first time ever due to 9/11 - Pearl Harbour doesn't actually count in that as big a tragedy as it was, it was 1000s of miles from the coast of the mainland and not a real tangible threat. We live in a world where 'freedom of choice' and the ability to slap a dollar down on the counter comes with a pretty unsavoury added cost. More pornography than ever before, more violent media than ever before, more inflammatory music than ever before and more drug use or celebrations of drug use than ever before.

American kids in general are getting fatter just at a time where pressure to adhere to a particular look is becoming even more intense with cosmetic surgery becoming increasingly common at increasingly younger ages. The popular stereotype of Americans being the lard-arses of the world wasn't one I was aware of when I was a kid.

At the same time, things that may have offset all these factors previously are on the decrease just as the other side of the scale is on the increase. More and more 'broken backgrounds'. Parents with too little time for their kids as both parents are having to work so many hours and look how little Johnny and Mary are occupying themselves when mum and dad aren't there. Discipline in schools has changed, partly due to 'litigation culture' and rights issues which often now leave teachers powerless to discipline unruly kids.

Things genuinely have changed over the years and I don't think there's any real answer. I think society and culture have reached a point now where only massive external factors can really change anything. Luckily enough for us, perhaps they're all on the horizon: global conflict, chronic financial collapse or maybe even alien/religious intervention of some kind.

Originally posted by Dinamo
reply to post by rawsom

 

why does everything have to be complicated.

I was bullied at school, we had elitists in class, we had school fights...
But that is growing up.

i didn't know how to use guns until military and had war in my country when i was teenage. maybe normal parents with no guns in front of me?

maybe answer is parenthood with guns in house. teach a kid that guns are normal, let him hunt. And then hire 50 psychologists to find why did he kill all bully imbecils in school.

I'm not saying everything is complicated but these kind of things tend to have several factors which are taken into account. Or, at least when these are analyzed. I'm also not saying that there is a simple reason for any of this, reasons do vary. One thing in common though is bullying, and schools are responsible to keep it at minimum because it has to do with safety students while in school. Obviously teachers are not responsible what happens outside of school, but while in school, teachers are supposed to keep it at minimum.

This has been a constant subject of conversations here as we have had our own share of these shootings, sadly.

There also is no single responsible party, but sometimes parents are powerless to prevent this as is the school. Almost every teenager has a secret life parents know nothing about, parents are not told everything. For a reason. Children have a natural tendency for privacy, so it is no wonder.

My girl came home from 5th grade nearly every day and bawled her head off. The amount of harrassment, humiliation, and more going on every day was absolutely unbelievable. No adult -- with vastly more stability of ego and sense of self -- would take a fraction of this without going completely postal. Yet every day she was subject to it, and there wasn't even anything wrong with her -- she was relatively pretty though not beautiful, semi-normal size bit on the big butt, decent clothes though not the fashion queen -- yet still her life was such hell it just boggled my mind. One guy in particular harrassed her so badly and so much that when I demanded she go to the principle she said with dull eyes, "What for? He's in the dean's office every day already. He's always in trouble. Nothing ever changes. It would just make him and then others hate me more."

I enrolled her in karate and told her she would have a blackbelt by age 18, and we would begin firearms training at 13, and I didn't want to hear of her being a victim of anybody, male or female, any further.

So 6th grade arrived. She was very excited about that as it meant 'middle school'. Of course, the bullies went with her. And now she had 2 years of higher-grade bullies above who love to pick on the younger. I ignored her complaints for awhile, because you "learn to deal" in school is my view. She'd been asking for homeschool since 3rd grade and I'd been ignoring it. Then she started coming home morosely depressed, looking like a trauma victim regularly, lost her interest in nearly everything in life. I encouraged her to talk with me and so she began telling me about her day, each day on the way home. Which often led to bawling.

Most her friends have secretly admitted to being molested by family. Most her friends talk about their parents drinking and fighting and screwing the neighbors. Most her 'friends' are shallow, traumatized, abusive psychos their fractured home lives have created. Worse, school sucked too -- she didn't get to sing hardly at all in chorus as the teacher decided they would all do exercise instead. So if she had boobs and wasn't wearing a sports bra it sucked and if she sweated in her regular clothes she smelled. In math the entire year was doing stuff she'd already just done in 5th grade and already knew. In history she loved her teacher but the kids were so abusive -- the guy in question was in that class -- she hid outside, too mortified to enter homeroom, until the bell rang.

I got a call from the school. She isn't turning in her papers. She's got a locker of papers she DID but didn't turn in and she's failing. I see that teacher conferences are coming up and I figure that's a good time to address this. I finally call, when are my appointments? We don't make appointments. If you wanted to talk to the teachers you were supposed to make an appointment on your own. It's too late now. (!) I go to the teachers directly after class. I'm a programmer, and I offer to make them a super simple thing --since they have a web browser open on a computer all day on their desk -- where they just click a button, type in what was done/homework that day for a class, we're talking 15 seconds here -- and hit submit and it's done and every student's parents could easily see what the daily work was and/or what homework might be required. No, they don't have time. OK, can I send a slip to school with her like they had when I was in school, where the teacher initials it at the end of the class if they handed in their work that day? No, they don't have time.

Meanwhile she was gaining weight, refusing to move at all most the time, told me she wanted to die regularly, told me she had horrible thoughts in her head about the people around her regularly. Her 'friends' were absolutely insane--of course, in 6th grade that's a given, I was there once, but they set new standards. This whole school acted out "Lord of the Flies" on an hourly basis.

I decided it was basically trash culture and there was no reason for her to grow up suicidal and traumatized to the degree she couldn't even CARE about her schoolwork, and after 3 years of her begging, I pulled her out and put her in homeschool. She is just finally, after many months, actually starting to return to the better-natured, creative, interested kid I used to know.

You add medications (ritalin-style) to this, add a bad home life to this, and I'm surprised more kids aren't going postal frankly.

PJ

www.educate-yourself.org


This website has a ton of information about mind control.

Anybody else here read this stuff?

The government has its 'ways' to create a perfect patsy to do its bidding, ie shoot up their classmates, commit various and sundry 'terrorist' acts with guns to get the populace to want gun control.

Tim McVeigh was a patsy.

The government uses mind control on the Delta Force.

The government has thousands of trained sex slaves to serve the presidents and Congress, the Supreme Court. All these slaves are mind controlled.

They are tortured and drugged and their mind split into multiple personalities, all of which are programmed and put to bed to be summoned by their trained handlers (usually government psychiatirsts, of which most of these shooters are always under their "care" and being heavily drugged by mind-altering psychotropics).

To the lady with the child who you think is being pushed to the edge where she might commit a shooting, why don't you take your poor daugahter out of the hellhole you have placed her in? Why do you hand her over to the programmers to ruin?

Get her out now. The worst homeschooling on earth has got to be better than the ruinous mind control programming that is going on.

Anybody read the thread on the Obaminoid kids ready to turn their parents in to the government?

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

I'd like to add that the reason I ignored my kid's pleas for homeschool for years is because I was of the opinion that there's always bullying and social problems and that people just have to learn to deal with them.

What I eventually came to understand is that most people assume that their child's school is just like the one they went to.

That their child's age culture is just like the one they grew up in.

When I was in 5th grade we did not have kids coming to school with knives and coc aine; she did.

When she was six years old she was worried about how her ass looked in jeans. Not until 6th grade Dittos did I even think of that, and I didn't get her level of worry until I was 16 years old. Drastically different media, dolls and culture.

I lived in a much better neighborhood than we do now. We are not urban gang; we are poor indian/white and there's only one school option and no private school options.

My teachers had a lot more time and fewer bureaucractic restrictions and were a lot more aware of, and less tolerant of, bullying when seen.

Punishment in schools, at least expelling, was a lot more common. If you went to the dean you were actually in trouble, not just counseled about the same abusive behavior every day of the year.

The world of school today differs greatly depending on the school, the neighborhood, and other factors. It is not the school WE grew up with.

So assuming that bullies and social stuff happens and kids should just learn to deal with it is using a set of assumptions that have no relationship to reality.

When a kid's in a situation where there is NO WAY OUT -- where abuse is constant, where the parents won't help, the teachers won't help, they can't not go, etc. it eventually creates major psychological distortion in any human being. It would create it in an adult but it especially creates it in children, and if the child's home life sucks on top of their school life sucking, exactly what factor in their life is supposed to make them balanced or adaptable?

I think anybody with an interest in education should read John Taylor Gatto's books... all of them.

PJ

I've thought for many years that the relatively FEW instances of mass shootings in America may be due to black ops — government brainwashing of likely candidates who then go on their little rampages — in preparation for scrapping the Constitution and banning all firearms from the public.

No way to prove this in the great majority of cases, as the shooter typically commits suicide. But it sounds like a particularly evil brainwashing program that would appeal to the current Marxist administration. We'll probably see school shootings coming out the wazoo in the coming months, what do you wanna bet?

— Doc Velocity

I was bullied at school as well, though only at grades 7th->9th, which was about three years. In reality it lasted for about two and a half years, when I finally lost myself and got extremely angry in a wild way. I banged the head of one of them into a coat rack for a few times, and then went on with my rage doing similar things to other. Suddenly, that stopped the bullying. I was never a good fighter, but they got scared because the rage I had. Only thing stopping me was two or three other guys pulling me away from those who bullied me.

I did have thoughts of shooting them all at times, but later on I eventually grew up. However, 15 years later, I still suffer from occasional panic attacks and certainly that time of my life is emotionally ruined for life.

Alex Jones says, and I agree, that government schools are prisons to train people who to live under tyranny, to submit without a whimper to the jackboot on our neck.

Not to mention the property taxes that are necessary to support these evil schools make it so most of us will not be able to keep our homes.

The best thing that can be done to the public schools is to close them all down YESTERDAY. Let the locals use the buildings for their own homeschooling efforts, get the damned government out of our lives, stop letting them raise our children to turn them against us and teach them to spy on us and to become amoral atheists believing in a New Age and X-men and evolution and all the other pseudoscientific brainwashing they inflict on our children.

People gotta be totally nuts to send their kids to these schools. Alex says so and I totally 100 percent agree.

But this is off topic.

Yes, I agree that the shooters were all mind controlled patsies.

Tim McVeigh was a patsy.

Sirhan Sirhan was a patsy.

Oswald was a patsy.

Klibold and Harris were possibly not patsies per se, because they were Zionists who hated the goy, but were also on psychotropics and treated by govt. psychiatrists, so a little bit of both. They were patsies but they made good subject matter because of their pre-existant hatred and wanting to kill the goy, which is inherent in the corrupting Talmudic teachings their parents subjected them to. Even then most of the weapons and bombs could not have been planted by these two guys, and most of the actual shootings of the kids were done by police and other govt. ops people sent in to "rescue" the kids.

The many other school shootings involving younger people, were ALL programmed patsies.

Andrea Yates was programmed and drugged to kill her kids by drowning them in the bathtub, and to make Christians look bad.

In addition, my research shows there are millions more mind controlled people programmed to "go off" when given the signal to do so, to go out and start killing randomly.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth

Are you actually serious about this stuff? These things are highly emotional and if you are just trolling, I suggest you stop it or start another thread. We are actually having a quite civilized conversation here.

Originally posted by rawsom
Are you actually serious about this stuff? These things are highly emotional and if you are just trolling, I suggest you stop it or start another thread. We are actually having a quite civilized conversation here.

Excuse me? My conversation is not civilized?

Yes, I am serious. What have I said that you think I am not serious and I will get you some links. Why would you think I'm not serious?

I'm not the only one here who has said the shooters were patsies. My remarks about the schools don't agree with you? You think only people who approve of the government schools ruining all the kids should be posting here?

Sorry. I wouldn't send a kid to one of those schools if anybody paid me. I'd take them to hide in the woods first.

I am the civilized one. It is the so-called "civilization" we live in which has lost it's civilization and has turned into a barbarian empire that is the problem.

You are just too used to it to see it. Take the red pill. Turn off your TV.

I would say that mind-control is about as serious as it gets. I wouldn't call it trolling at all, and those who dismiss the possibility of mind-control are either kidding themselves or they're part of the problem.

— Doc Velocity

Although I believe SOME degree of 'secret experimentation' goes on, I have not seen any 'evidence' (besides 'people ranting') to convince me that

a) mind control is 'everywhere, EVERYWHERE I tell you!' or

b) schools are 'nothing but mind control laboratories' (at least in the official way, as opposed to ANY cultural framework qualifying as such).

I also don't necessarily think that just because one guy shoots a president that this is necessarily for any of the same causes that a child shoots his peers.

As a teen I nearly murdered my stepmother. That would have been SO well deserved. Only knowing I didn't deserve prison kept me from it. But shooting my schoolmates, or the president, is a wholly separate thing.

It wouldn't be fair to assume that just because a similar tool is employed (a gun) that the reasons for people doing very different things are the same.

I think it seems kind of hysterical to assume that every gradeschool is a mind control lab. I consider my child's former gradeschool to be run by ordinary people, influenced and miseducated by the system they came from and returned to perpetuate, but I think projecting normal social issues upon some grand overlord conspiracy seems a little over the top.

PJ

Originally posted by RedCairo
Although I believe SOME degree of 'secret experimentation' goes on, I have not seen any 'evidence' (besides 'people ranting') to convince me that

a) mind control is 'everywhere, EVERYWHERE I tell you!' or

b) schools are 'nothing but mind control laboratories' (at least in the official way, as opposed to ANY cultural framework qualifying as such).

I also don't necessarily think that just because one guy shoots a president that this is necessarily for any of the same causes that a child shoots his peers.

As a teen I nearly murdered my stepmother. That would have been SO well deserved. Only knowing I didn't deserve prison kept me from it. But shooting my schoolmates, or the president, is a wholly separate thing.

It wouldn't be fair to assume that just because a similar tool is employed (a gun) that the reasons for people doing very different things are the same.

I think it seems kind of hysterical to assume that every gradeschool is a mind control lab. I consider my child's former gradeschool to be run by ordinary people, influenced and miseducated by the system they came from and returned to perpetuate, but I think projecting normal social issues upon some grand overlord conspiracy seems a little over the top.

PJ

No, you just think that all the shootings were caused by bullying. But that's not hysterical, right? First you say the school drove your daughter nuts, and now you say how wonderful the school was. The word from 1984 is called "doublethink" and also "doublespeak."

Not to be mean. But you should be willing to look into things. If you were more aware of things you would not be making all these lame excuses for why you kept your daughter living in a hellhole. People tell you things you don't know and you call them hysterical, don't even investigate.

Some people are willingly ignorant, no matter how bad things get they keep on making excuses for themselves and others, so they can keep on living in the matrix, the false reality they feel comfortable in.

Scientists say that stress in childhood can effect the brain in such a way that recovery is impossible. My entire school experience was spent dreading every day.. it was a living nightmare and now I have chronic anxiety disorder and severe sleep problems. It's kind of hard to sleep when you know what you've got to face in the morning. I was very passive and very shy girl but was emotionally torchured and teachers enabled the bullies.. even to the point of getting in on it themselves. Thats growing up? No it isn't.. bullies learn bullying from somewhere and I KNOW some parents instruct their kids to do so when they don't like the kids parents. Parents actually admitted to it.


"Kids will be kids"

I hear that alot. Really? So when one kid gets his head flushed down a toilet or beat up thats just kids being kids? Thats assault.. so whats the difference when that same kid comes back with a firearm and bullies them back?

Oh I see.. when violence does not result in actual death it's just "kids being kids". :shk:

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

reply to post by riley


You should write it all down, organize your thoughts on your government school experience, and start hollering.

Posting here on ATS can help you organize your thoughts.

It's time the government got OUT of the education business, leave our kids alone. Parents DO know best. Let communities have their own schools. Most people don't learn any more past fifth grade. 12 years is too long for the government to require kids to stay in their enforced hellhole prisons.

The Amish don't make their kids go past 8th grade, and they are very literate, and they also know how to do a lot of practical things -- like cook, farm, fix things, sew.

Fight back. You were there. You know what it was like.

If all of us stand up and say "NO" to the New World Order, we can defeat it.

And the government schools are a BIG PART of the New World Order. A HUGE part.