A bizarre universe may be lurking in the shadows

A bizarre universe may be lurking in the shadows

www.newscientist.com

The bonanza of evidence suggests that dark matter might be far more complicated than we had ever imagined. For starters, the theoretician's favourite dark-matter candidate is falling out of favour, with the latest experiments making the case for new, exotic varieties of dark matter. If they are right, we could be living next to a "hidden sector", an unseen aspect of the cosmos that exists all around us and includes a new force of nature.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is interesting, some more clues about Dark Matter from these studies. It is quite possible that this dark matter is the key driver of the universe and we are all a result of the action happening in this dark matter. Something like a hologram.

The interesting question is- Are we living in dark matter- OR is the dark matter elsewhere in the universe and life cannot sustain over there.

I would love if someone could explain the relation between dark matter and gravity, I quite cannot understand it.

www.newscientist.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Man, every time I read stuff like this it reminds me of Lovecraft. Go have a read of "From Beyond" or "The Colour Out of Space"

The man had foresight beyond belief.

reply to post by sunny_2008ny


Dark matter does not exist and gravity is the original meaning of weight. It's not a force, it's simply weight. (example: Hey so and so, what is your gravity in lbs meaning "how much do you weight in pounds?")

If gravity was a force, then it would change dramatically with density of an object as if you could add more invisible force in proportion to the density that the "graviton" is packed in then it would stand, but science is not needed to know this, only bowling balls....lol

If you have a 1 ton brick of lead and a 1 ton boulder, though the size may change, one ton is one ton. The brick of lead may be way smaller then the stone, but they have the same gravity. If gravity were an outside variable, then the force acting on the lead as opposed to the stone, and vice versa would vary, but that is not the case.

Peace

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by sunny_2008ny

 

If gravity was a force, then it would change dramatically with density of an object as if you could add more invisible force in proportion to the density that the "graviton" is packed in then it would stand, but science is not needed to know this, only bowling balls....lol

What does gravity have to do with any of this?

[edit on 5-3-2009 by cognoscente]

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

If gravity was a force

Isnt gravity real time. Look at light, it takes 8 minutes to travel to earth, but gravity is "real time" and instantaneous, there is no time lag. How do you explain that? Gravity exerts it's force on us and hence we have weights. But the "force" exerted by the Sun on the planets, earth on moon etc results in the orbits of these bodies. Isnt gravity a force then?

reply to post by cognoscente

What does gravity have to do with any of this?

This is the comment a user posted for the article on the source website

dark matter is simply manifestation of surface tension energy of every density gradient of vacuum, which is forming gravity field of massive bodies. This surface tension behaves like weak repulsive force of mercury droplets, which decreases a gravity action of increased energy density here. Surface tension phenomena are most pronounced near surface of neutron stars and black holes, where they lead into quantum wave behavior of their surface, but they manifest itself by weak repulsive force even inside of our solar system (compare the Pioneer spacecraft anomaly, Allais effect and some other phenomena).

Source: New Scientist

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

If gravity was a force

Isnt gravity real time. Look at light, it takes 8 minutes to travel to earth, but gravity is "real time" and instantaneous, there is no time lag. How do you explain that? Gravity exerts it's force on us and hence we have weights. But the "force" exerted by the Sun on the planets, earth on moon etc results in the orbits of these bodies. Isnt gravity a force then?

Gravity is force but seems to be inverse force, compared to for instance light wave, but gravity is also said to be wave form.
One of the interesting questions is what is speed of gravity, is said to be speed of light or greater.
Gravity is said to be very weak, I belive gravity is one of the greatest powers in universe, and may be the cosmic constant.

reply to post by sunny_2008ny


They could try at least to prove Dark Matter exists beyond theory first before inventing more exotic versions of it.

IMHO, the more exotic it is the less likely it is to be correct. It's analogous to painting oneself into a corner and then trying to find a creative way out.

Hey, I guess they have to justify their grants somehow and what better way than with unfalsifiable 'science'. Just add a few buzz words to hype everything up like "Bonanza" and that should keep the punters fooled for a little while longer.

IRM

Not bore anyone but I have some thoughts on Gravity and Dark Matter.

Gravity is force it is converted to electricty by way of water, gravitys energy is not depeleted it is constant.
The only way gravity would be at rest, is if all of matter in universe was back to state of singularity.

Dark Matter is not constant it is either becoming denser or less dense.
There is new theory, that speed of light was greater right after Big Bang than now, if true will speed of light continue to slow?
If true would throw off all equations to date about universe.

It is also my thought that once the massive gravity wells, Black Holes rule, the universe will again close, Gravity will rest till next Bang. My thoughts on this time period is 23 trillion years, till Big Crunch.

I also think Hawking Radiation is farce, with out Hawkings Radiation universe is closed, Gravity is a constant, will only increase in force, until able to rest, complete, the Singularity.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

Yes yes, gravity is fascinating, truly fascinating... but lets get back to dark matter itself yes?

Given that my field of study has little to nothing to do with astrophysics, my question is, how would this be tested? As far as I know so far, we haven't got a way to actually measure dark matter yet.

I may be outdated on the progress, but I was under the assumption that all of this was still very much theoretical.

However, the article does point to the suggestion that we've got an abundance of evidence... what evidence would this be?

I am incredibly out of date on my information, clearly.

Originally posted by johnsky
Yes yes, gravity is fascinating, truly fascinating... but lets get back to dark matter itself yes?

Given that my field of study has little to nothing to do with astrophysics, my question is, how would this be tested? As far as I know so far, we haven't got a way to actually measure dark matter yet.

I may be outdated on the progress, but I was under the assumption that all of this was still very much theoretical.

However, the article does point to the suggestion that we've got an abundance of evidence... what evidence would this be?

I am incredibly out of date on my information, clearly.

True it's not proven Dark Matter exist, it was called ether a hundred years ago, now it's back as Dark Matter could be call Cosmic matrix, the grid work as such everything is moving thru. It is also easy to see it would be made up of more then one form of Dark Matter, but still in equal balance.
But then what effect does Gravity have on Dark Matter or vice versa?
It is there what it is is another thing

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

Originally posted by googolplex

It is also my thought that once the massive gravity wells, Black Holes rule, the universe will again close, Gravity will rest till next Bang. My thoughts on this time period is 23 trillion years, till Big Crunch.

Emphasis By Me

googolplex,

How does one come to such an arbitrary number as 23 trillion? Have you done some advanced equations to back this up, have you harnessed the chaos theory, proven the suggested physics behind the universe - or is it just a number that feels right to you?

IRM

Well for one, I thought it was quite funny when the astrophysics duds, said well it's been 15 billion years the universe should be slowing down by now, and these guys went to university?
If it were to have been already slowing, it would also of been about to close.

Oh # it's going faster something must be pulling it, faster and faster, it's the nothing, nothing is pulling it faster.

Really we are only in first micro seconds of bang, I mean it only just occured.

I know Hawking is very smart, but if you read some of his stuff you would relize he is nut job, not to say bad nut, maybe good nut, but nut.

Yes it would be hard to explain my numbers, but just wait you will see I am correct give or take a few billion.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]
Another thing you know we are still within the singularity, but the view we have now is as a multiplicity, but all is illuision. Micro, Macro Cosmic.
Every Bang has already occured, and there has been very large number of bangs, many, many,many bangs.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

reply to post by googolplex


Nice tactics but you didn't really answer my question. Have you considered politics?

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan

Really I'm still working on it, missing afew things, but am quite sure universe is closed just for fact it has to be. Alpha, Omega and you know if you measure the nothing it is neither big nor small.



[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

reply to post by InfaRedMan
(That number is really small lookig at it)
The universe is some 360,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles across, without total mass of universe, and if speed of light is not constant, more variables.
23 trillion was just ruff estimate, but sure alot closer than googol others guess



[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


'reader'....

I cannot believe you live in San Diego, California and are so ignorant of basic physics!!!

UNLESS you are playing....and if so, the ATS Community will not be very happy with you!

I thought I would give some background to the layperson about dark matter and why gravity is important with relation to dark matter..

The whole reason dark energy was theorized in the first place is because of the unseen, seemingly invisible, force that seems to not only hold galaxies together but also immense galaxy clusters (such as the sagitarius supercluster and our own virgo supercluster)

In other words there is some unseen "dark" force (creating immense gravity) that is acting on those galaxies and holding them all together. Here is a pie-chart representing everything in our universe.. This helps puts everything into perspective..



There is also the fact that the universe, itself, is an incomprehensibly immense network of tendrils and strings of galaxy clusters. HERE is a decent overview and description of dark matter based on what we currently know (from wikipedia)..

In astronomy and cosmology, dark matter is hypothetical matter that is undetectable by its emitted radiation, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter . Dark matter is postulated to explain the flat rotation curves of spiral galaxies and other evidence of "missing mass" in the universe. According to present observations of structures larger than galaxies, as well as Big Bang cosmology, dark matter and dark energy account for the vast majority of the mass in the observable universe.

Although dark matter was detected by its gravitational lensing in August 2006, many aspects of dark matter remain speculative. The DAMA/NaI experiment and its successor DAMA/LIBRA have claimed to directly detect dark matter passing through the Earth, though most scientists remain skeptical since negative results of other experiments are (almost) incompatible with the DAMA results if dark matter consists of neutralinos.

Data from a number of lines of evidence, including galaxy rotation curves, gravitational lensing, structure formation, and the fraction of baryons in clusters and the cluster abundance combined with independent evidence for the baryon density, indicate that 85-90% of the mass in the universe does not interact with the electromagnetic force . This "nonbaryonic dark matter" is evident through its gravitational effect. Historically, three categories of nonbaryonic dark matter have been postulated:

Hot dark matter - nonbaryonic particles that move ultrarelativistically
Warm dark matter - nonbaryonic particles that move relativistically
Cold dark matter - nonbaryonic particles that move non-relativistically

So now that we have a rundown of dark matter.. Here is a big reason dark matter seems to permeate most of the known universe..
Below are 2 pretty decent illustrations of "The Local Group" which contains our own milky way galaxy and andromeda. Our galaxy and andromeda are racing towards each other at about a 100km per second and will eventually collide.
www.astro.uu.se...

www.sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de...

The local group belongs to an immense substructure of galaxy clusters called the "virgo supercluster". The Virgo supercluster belongs to a drastically bigger superstructure of tendrils and weaves made up of billions/trillions of galaxies and galaxy superclusters.

illustration of the Virgo supercluster
universe-review.ca...

I thought this was extremely interesting (from universe-review.ca... ):

The Virgo along with the Hydra and other superclusters are streaming at a speed of 6x107 cm/sec toward the "Great Attractor", which is a gigantic unseen mass located near the A3627 (Norma) cluster in the Centaurus Wall near the galactic plane. In comparison, the speed of cosmic expansion is about 7x108 cm/sec at a distance of 100 megapc.

We don't know what exactly the great attractor is.. We can only speculate without more data. But it could have something to do with dark energy.
This map illustrates a 500 million light year radius around our galaxy and the directions of motion towards this bizarre unseen mass.
universe-review.ca...

these next 2 images illustrate the tendrils and weaves I'm talking about..
extrasolar.org...

universe-review.ca...

This is the universe as seen from earth per the WMAP sky survey. Notice the obvious groupings and tendril-like formations (big file.. Might take a minute to load)
webusers.astro.umn.edu...

This link provides some of these same images/maps of groupings and cluster formations from larger scales down.
extrasolar.org...

And the following is an MPEG format movie simulation of how these tendrils eventually formed into what they are today.
archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu...

The excerpt below is From..
universe-review.ca...

There is a problem with the formation of superclusters. Theory associates a characteristic time for the gravitational settling near the center of a clump. For a density fluctuation of 1.7%, it is of the order of 1 billion years; it would be 13 billion years for 0.3% fluctuation, etc. However, CMBR measurements imply a fluctuation of only 0.001%, which requires a settling time 1000 times longer than the age of the universe. The inconsistency can be resolved only if there is "dark matter" to enhance the fluctuation.

Since dark matter interacts with normal matter only through gravity, the pressure that kept the normal gas from collapsing coundn't act on it. Particles of dark matter enjoyed an unimpeded assembly into large structures (in the form of primordial fluctuation) long before the normal gas could begin to get organized. By the time normal matter decoupled from the photons, the dark matter had already grown into a primitive web-like network. As soon as the normal matter lost its support from the photon pressure, the gravity from the pre-existing dark matter structures quickly pulled normal gas into the web. In this way, normal matter was given a gravitational "head start" by dark matter.

Recently in early 2004, several new measurements of galaxies and clusters in the early universe indicate that the structures involving galaxies and clusters are larger than expected with the new standard "dark-energy" cosmology. The controversy centers on the inability of a dark-energy dominated universe to create such large structures within such a short time (1/5 of the present age). More researches are required to validate such observations. The next step is to map an area of sky ten times larger, to get a better idea of the large-scale structure. Several such surveys are currently under way.

From same link..

In 2008, using the cluster catalog and WMAP's data, bulk cluster motions of nearly 108 cm/sec has been identified toward patch of sky near A3627 in the direction between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela. The clusters show a small but measurable velocity that is independent of the universe's expansion and does not change as distances increase. It is suggested that such motion (now called darkflow) is caused by the gravitational attraction of matter that lies beyond the observable universe.

-ChriS

reply to post by sunny_2008ny


You know Sunny, I think there's more to the title of the article than meets the eye.

"A bizarre universe lurking in the shadows".....with everything going on lately, it seems that the disclosure event is coming. I say that in reference to NWO being used publicly in the MSM, Sobe and Vitamin Water commercials using reptiles in their commercials in strange ways, LHC being down all year (ha!) etc. It just seems that those words are just another part of the inoculation on humanity.

I also find it interesting that the article claims that dark matter is more complex than once imagined. I believe the smarter we get technologically, the more we would understand not vice versa. Hmmmm.......