Girl, 9, aborts twins after rape

reply to post by greeneyedleo

I agree whole heartedly green...though I am not Christian nor religious in any manner, life is life. However I am in firm in my belief that if it requires that someone who hasn't even been alive for a decade yet die or be seriously injured, then the choice is clear. This child didn't ask for this, as neither did the twins, but both would be harmed irreparably if the birth would be allowed to continue. Unfortunatley the choice is clear in this case. This is one of the cases where religious piousness is and should be overridden by the secular mind.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

Sure. Alive might be life. The fact that you are alive doesn't give you one iota of rights to the resources and space inside another person's body without their express permission and consent.

Just because you have a "right to life" doesn't mean that if you are dying with only one kidney and your neighbour has a kidney to match you, that you have a "right" to take it to support your own continued "ight to life."

You cannot even just "borrow" it.

Further, do you have any idea the sort of damage that carrying a couple of twins in a nine year old body would do to that girl? The idea of it is literally insane. It would probably cause her pelvic floor damage, there is no space for that sort of growth inside her abdomen - she's LITTLE. She's NINE.

I know for a fact that life begins at conception because I've felt it growing inside of me. I admit it is difficult for me to say just abort the babies. Yes, physically and emotionally it would be hard for a nine year old to carry one baby to term let alone two, but it is our belief as Christians that God makes children. Through Him all things are possible and since the girl is capable of conception her body would develop enough to deliver just as all women do.

I wonder if the rapist was exposed because the girl got pregnant? It really doesn't matter. IMO-the Catholic Church is right but I wouldn't charge the mother with murder most definitely she neglected both of her daughters by exposing them to this monster of a human being. She should go to jail for neglect and all her children should be taken away from her.

I admit my gut (flesh) would want to come down on the side of abortion, but two wrongs never make it right.

edit spelling..

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Saphronia]

Just for the sake of argument:

Brazilian law allows doctors to perform abortions in the case of rape or when there's a risk to the mother's life.

So there's no question about the "legality" of this action.



---

I think we should not talk so much about the girl, the church, god, whatever... the girl already had the abortion, she was already rapped/abused, her sister is also not in the safest environment, their mother is probably not a strong woman, but the STEP-FATHER can still (and should be) incarcerated.


Peace

If the church is so involved in this, then where were they before the stepfather raped that poor little girl. I think the concearns here should be for the health of the little girl. I think the DNC was a good thing. I hope the stepfather goes to prison.

If the church is so involved in this, then where were they before the stepfather raped that poor little girl. I think the concearns here should be for the health of the little girl. I think the DNC was a good thing. I hope the stepfather goes to prison.

reply to post by Saphronia


I truly appreciate your faith and beliefs but you as are millions of catholics are DEAD wrong on this. To carry this baby to term would have certainly put this CHILD in danger of death as well as her twins. Put down the Bible and pick up a science book. By your advocation it doesn't matter if you lose a child's life becasue you get 2 or none. But hell it was worth the try becasue that's what God commands. How can a you as a Christian/Catholic agree with this but be against the very tennant of your views? God gives ALL of us the choice to decide our own fates, NOT THE CHURCH! To force this child to have these babies and potentially die because of it is ignorant and selfish. Not to mention the fact that as she looks upon her children she would be reliving the moment of her rape FOREVER.

Originally posted by truthquest
In any case, rights are a faith-based belief. There is nothing in physics to suggest the existence of rights. So you can go ahead and pretend you are morally superior to the Catholic church. Or you just realize it the whole concept of abortion rights is one faith, while equally valid on the other end of the spectrum is the concept of human rights.

The idea is very simple and powerful. If you are a human, you get rights. If you are a fetus human, you get rights. This is the position of the Catholic Church. It is not my position, but it is a perfectly understandable and highly reasonable one. It makes sense!

Do sperms have rights too then? How about ovaries? At what point is a fetus a "human." Is aborting a petri-dish insemination immoral? As far as I'm concerned morality is plurality. The only "natural rights" we have are the ones others grant us or what we can defend from others taking away.

If we're going to apply reason to the argument I'd rather focus on making the lives of those already contributing to our society better than that of a theoretical "human-life. "

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Xtraeme]

These are the same "Catholics" that rape altar boys with little consequence- no?
Yeah - I'd listen to them.






[edit on 5-3-2009 by spinkyboo]

Originally posted by Saphronia
I admit it is difficult for me to say just abort the babies. [...snip...]...but it is our belief as Christians that God makes children.

Actually, in this case it wasn't God who made children, it was a Rapist Step Father who sexually assaulted a 9 year old child, who made children.

Through Him all things are possible and since the girl is capable of conception her body would develop enough to deliver just as all women do.

True, God makes children possible, but then he also makes rape & abortion possible. And who are you or anyone to second guess the things that God makes possible?

God created abortion, too. So, deal with it.

I find it short sighted on your part as well, that despite the fact it was the Step Father who raped the child, you also want the Mother to go to jail. WTF?

And just exactly WHO do you expect to raise the child, The Catholic Church? I'm sure they'd love to get their slimy fingers on that little girl.

Originally posted by silo13
Yes that’s exactly what I’d want to learn when I *grew up*.

Not only was I product of heinous rape, but, the church forced my poor 9 year old mother to have me, AND, I was conceived in incest?

What the hell is this world coming to when there is even a question of this girls right to abort, or not!

peace

[edit on 5-3-2009 by silo13]

I don't know....

You are suggesting that they would agree to their own abortion than to live with how they were conceived?

If I (or anybody) had the choice between their own abortion or life...I choose life, and I would think most of you would too...

Also, the child/mother (a 9 years old already having menstrual cycles?) no matter whether she goes to term or aborts has a very messed up life in either case.

Lastly the future is not written in stone. The futures of the child/mother or the two twins are not destined to have bad lives from a bad past.

Just goes to show the pro-life fanatics that theres a fine line between right and wrong...

This girl, had she had the babies, would have done serious harm to her body...not to mention the mental/psychological harm. The babies as well, had they been raised...wouldnt have gotten the love and attention they deserved most likely as I'm sure they are a reminder for the pain she went through...This is a clean cut case and religious fanatics have no business telling a 9 year old girl to have a baby because "its the right thing to do"...Give me a break...

Theres also a chance that had these babies grown up in a unloving home or been raised that way- that they could resort to drugs and or crime to deal with everything if they ever find out and Im sure they would have where's daddy/who's daddy questions.

Religion has no place in this story. I would point the fingers back asking why "god" allowed her in the first place to be raped and impregnated if he really exists.

Originally posted by harrytuttle

God created abortion, too. So, deal with it.

I find it short sighted on your part as well, that despite the fact it was the Step Father who raped the child, you also want the Mother to go to jail. WTF?

And just exactly WHO do you expect to raise the child, The Catholic Church? I'm sure they'd love to get their slimy fingers on that little girl.

Other countries have different beliefs, so I guess we need to deal with it...

The funny part is that if this girl was murdered there would not be any posts here about it and it wouldn’t be a big deal. Why is death a better option over life, Anytime?

This is the erosion of morality in America with our legal abortion policies. Death becomes the better choice over a poor life or a life with hardships. It is so bad that I read posts about how the children would hate to be brought into this world because of how they were created.

Putting all religion aside, am I the only one who has serious issues with how people assuming that life will not be good are willing to choose death for others? I find it hard to justify death when life is also a choice and with a future that can still go any direction.

Originally posted by AceOfAces
Just goes to show the pro-life fanatics that theres a fine line between right and wrong...

Putting life above death is not a fanatical belief. I think all life will fight to live under any conditions.

This girl, had she had the babies, would have done serious harm to her body...not to mention the mental/psychological harm. The babies as well, had they been raised...wouldnt have gotten the love and attention they deserved most likely as I'm sure they are a reminder for the pain she went through...This is a clean cut case and religious fanatics have no business telling a 9 year old girl to have a baby because "its the right thing to do"...Give me a break...

Boy this makes my point.... you have set all their future and see death as the better choice over life, but you fail to see that the future is not set.

Theres also a chance that had these babies grown up in a unloving home or been raised that way- that they could resort to drugs and or crime to deal with everything if they ever find out and Im sure they would have where's daddy/who's daddy questions.

Hmm, there is a chance they will have a bad life SO LETS KILL THEM!!! hehe

Religion has no place in this story. I would point the fingers back asking why "god" allowed her in the first place to be raped and impregnated if he really exists.

You are right... It is not a religious thing but a morality view that life is better than death....is it not?

I got an idea...

Let them live to the age of 8 and if it looks like their life is bad or heading in that direction then we can kill them. Here at least we would have something substantial to compare in making the choice of life or death.




[edit on 5-3-2009 by Xtrozero]

What in the world does this even have to do with the catholic church? It's none of their business! They are charging the mother with murder for letting her daughter get the abortion.. all I have to say to that is LMAO.. again its none of their business. I'm guessing they are gonna charge everyone else in the world with murder who has had an abortion too? I don't think so.

This is not an easy topic to deal with for anyone. But, to abort a baby should never be a "no brainer" no matter your religious preference. It may be inconvenient or gross to admit because the situation but those twins were alive. This isn't about being a christian or a catholic (which I am not btw). Plain and simply life beings at the moment of conception. I know there are some in this community that will always swarm to debate the validity of christianity and the psychosis of christians, but you know there is life inside you as soon as it starts growing (IMHO).

I don't need to pick up a science book. As a matter of fact, I am a nurse. Since the child was sexualized early she has developed early. As women become sexually active the shape of their bodies begin to change to prepare for childbearing and childbirth. Of course we will never know because they killed the babies. It may surprise many but I am pro-choice and so was Jesus. We all have the free will to sin, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Again, two wrongs do not make a right.

Lastly, speaking as a mother, you need to know your enemies. She should've known that man was up in her kids. She should've protected her kids. I am a firm believer that a lot of this abuse can be avoided by parents being more aware of who and what they expose their children to.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by Saphronia]

What does it have to do with anyone to condemn the twins to death? If so many are willing to pronounce their judgement based on presumptions about matters ranging from the poor victim's ability to carry the twins through to their quality of life then allow the Church to fulfill its function and defend life in all its moments from conception to death.

Tell me, all you judges who nod sagely in agreement when these two lives are ended, why object to an oppossing judgement?

Originally posted by Supercertari
Tell me, all you judges who nod sagely in agreement when these two lives are ended, why object to an oppossing judgement?

Of course people will agree with a point of view in line with thier own. And I for one have no problem with an opposing view point, as long as it is logical and contains some degree of common sense.

What the Church in this case is doing has neither logic OR common sense in my opinion.

It is easy to see even for a lay person like myself that the chances of survival for this little girl are slim at best and even less for the unborns. Why risk the life of a an existing viable person for the sake of blind obedience to a 'law' created by man supposedly in the name of god.

[edit on 5/3/2009 by VIKINGANT]

Originally posted by marg6043
Anybody that can agree with a 9 year old child to be forced to carry a pregnancy is either ignorant or just beyond reasoning.

First of all a 9 year old child uterus will never be able to carry a pregnancy to full term, no brainier here.

The Uterus of a 9 year old child is not mature enough, the "fetus" only one will never survived and neither the mother child.

So lets stop the poor Fetuses here think that they were already death from the time that she was impregnated with them and so was she if she was allowed to be force until whatever term was she forced to live until.

Tragedy of 9-Year-Old's Abortion Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound (36-kilogram) girl. "She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper. But Marcio Miranda, a lawyer for the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife in northeastern Brazil, said the girl should have carried the twins to term and had a Caesarean section. "It's the law of God: Do not kill. We consider this murder," Miranda said in comments reported by O Globo. Calls to Miranda were not immediately returned. Brazil is home to more Catholics than any other nation.

Obviously the Church here is acting with criminal intentions under the umbrella of whatever they think they are protecting and they should be prosecuted for that alone.

No wonder I can not stand organized religion and this is one of the reasons why.

"It's the law of God: Do not kill. We consider this murder," Miranda said in comments reported by O Globo. Calls to Miranda were not immediately returned. Brazil is home to more Catholics than any other nation."

unless of course, we think our way of life is threatened, or the poor peasants keep insisting on following a different religion....then well, it's not murder, it's fullfilling God's wishes!!!

the girl was susposed to pray and then pray some more, that God would find favor in her and deliver her from the certain death that trying to carry these two babies full term, or even to the point where they could have survived out of the womb!!

that is the church's position, when it comes to women...of course the men....ya, sure....they can't even muster up enough faith to believe that God could protect them from the peasants halfway across the world in Iraq, they had to bomb the crap out of them!!

for those who are bringing up the rights of the poor babies....and I keep finding myself saying this whenever the topic of abortion comes up on these boards.../
can the rights of tiny little cells dwelling in a women's, or in this case 9 nine old girl supersede her right to life itself??

to say yes to such a thing is to strip every child bearing women's most basic right, the right to self preservation away from her....
this is why I say that every women, young or old, married or single, should put a stop to this line of thinking now....unless you really want kids, and would be willing to die to bring them into the world, well, just say no to the sex...no birth control is one hundred percent effective, and there's too many jerks in the world who, ya they would think nothing of bombing entire villages if they thought there might be someine in it who was a threat to their life, but they would be willing to strip you of your very basic right....not to mention, very basic human instict....of self preservation away from you.
in this kind of climate, I'm sorry, but having sex is just too danged dangerous...

let the danged men become grouchy miserable unhappy, sexually unfillfulled people for awhile, and watch just how fast the climate would change!

reply to post by dawnstar


Thank you so much, you see exactly the crisis been created here, the article very well explain that given the situation of the child mother she would never be able to hold the pregnancy and even survive it, neither the fetuses.

But as usual let to self righteous out there with clouded minds exercises their rights to their on opinions.

After all what is the life of a child of 9 compare to the live of two fetuses that will never be able to make it to be born.

After all if the child mother dies with the fetuses is always God wills.

Sometimes I just wonder about the reasoning of some.

Thanks again my friend, no even with the highlighted lines some still can not see when it comes to the reality of what that Child would have endured, death.