Freemasons, friend or foe

Originally posted by brooklyn87
just one of those theories apparently, I heard it somewhere, but for the longest time I have heard and read many different horror stories about the Freemasons, not all of them of course but a selected few.

This is one of the weird almost paradoxes in this kind of phenomena. It starts out with single stories, that spread and perhaps mutate as they go a long. Then eventually this somehow become 'proof' to some people that there's weight behind a lot of the claims: "well, why are there so many stories about the Masons then?" and "there's no smoke without fire" and so on.

Similar mechanisms drive physical 'witch hunts' and mob mentalities.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by truthquest
There is something I have strongly against the Masons, which is their seeming policy of dishonesty. I have frequently heard that when you get to the higher levels, you get told things like. Oh, we just told you that on the lower levels, here is the "real truth". And then the real truth changes the higher up you go I suppose until you reach the top wherever that really is.

You 'heard' this but somehow it has become truth? Who did you 'hear' this from and what did they tell you the 'real truth' was in acutality?

Another thing I have strongly against the Masons is their apparent support of elitism. The whole idea of a 33 degree Mason being a fundamentally better person than a 3rd degree Mason is ridiculous.

Who said an individual in an appendant body of Masonry is somehow 'better' then a person who chooses only to participate in Blue Lodge Masonry? There are many good men in my lodge who have never entered the Scottish Rite but do much for the community and the lodge and are not considered beneath the two 33rd degree Masons that are also members of my lodge.

People can be better at things but the whole concept of simply being better is simply incomplete and nonsensical, as well as insulting and harmful.

So is making unfounded or unproven statements....

Much of what I said is speculation. I should have been more clear about that. I think if a cop is a mason, and you are a mason, you may well get out of the ticket. And I believe that is why a lot of people join the masons.

Much of what I said is speculation. I should have been more clear about that. I think if a cop is a mason, and you are a mason, you may well get out of the ticket.

You would probably get off on the ticket if you went to the same church the cop went to, or the same bar, or if you like the same ball teams.

Originally posted by truthquest
Much of what I said is speculation. I should have been more clear about that. I think if a cop is a mason, and you are a mason, you may well get out of the ticket. And I believe that is why a lot of people join the masons.

I have never gotten out of a ticket because of my Masonic affiliation. There is actually a good portion of the time when I forget to even put my ring on so any law enforcement officer would not even know that I was a Mason and somehow help me to circumvent a ticket. I think a F.O.P. or P.B.A. shield may do much more good then any Masonic decal or jewelry in this regard.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by brooklyn87


there is a secret part of the masons that nobody knows about called the 33rd members and one of these people were sent to me because I'm spreading telepathy and the eye on the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill is the 'all seeing eye' or third eye of their telepathic orginazation, they themselves would deny this ability. God is protecting me from atempts of people trying to kill me and anyone else who would spread telepathy. The God of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God Bless you all u2u me if you want to know more about telepathy

Originally posted by telepathicjon
reply to post by brooklyn87

 

there is a secret part of the masons that nobody knows about called the 33rd members and one of these people were sent to me because I'm spreading telepathy and the eye on the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill is the 'all seeing eye' or third eye of their telepathic orginazation, they themselves would deny this ability. God is protecting me from atempts of people trying to kill me and anyone else who would spread telepathy. The God of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God Bless you all u2u me if you want to know more about telepathy

I was going to U2U but then I thought I would just send you my thoughts instead.

Can you guess what I am thinking?

I am going to tread a very thin line here.

I want to quote from the Charge given to every Entered Apprentice Mason as an example of what Freemasonry is about. This quote is similar to the Charge given in every regular lodge but may differ slightly in the wording.

This information is in the public domain and I believe it does not reveal anything I am sworn to conceal, but it is representative of some of our beliefs.

This is an example of what is asked of men who join our fraternity, and explains some of our beliefs.

As always if any of my Brothers feel it is inappropriate please tell me and I will remove it at once but I don't believe it violates any part of my oath.

There are three great duties, which, as a Mason, you are strictly to observe and inculcate--to God, your neighbor, and yourself. To God, in never mentioning His name but with that reverential awe which is due from a creature to his Creator; to implore His aid in all your laudable undertakings, and to esteem Him as your chief good.

To your neighbor, in acting upon the square, and doing unto him as you would he should do unto you: and to yourself, in avoiding all irregularity and intemperance, which may impair your facilities or debase the dignity of your profession. A zealous attachment to these duties will insure public and private esteem.

In the State you are to be a quiet and peaceable citizen, true to your government, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live. In your outward demeanor be particularly careful to avoid censure or reproach.

Let not interest, favor, or prejudice bias your integrity, or influence you to be guilty of a dishonorable action. And although your frequent appearance at our regular meetings is earnestly solicited, yet it is not meant that Masonry should interfere with your necessary avocations, for these are on no account to be neglected; neither are you to suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into arguments with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it. But, at your leisure hours, that you may improve in Masonic knowledge, you are to converse with well-informed brethren, who will be always as ready to give as you will be ready to receive instruction.

and, an example of our tenets...

By the exercise of Brotherly Love, we are taught to regard the whole human species as one family--the high and low, the rich and poor; who, as created by one Almighty Parent and inhabitants of the same planet, are to aid, support, and protect each other. On this principle, Masonry unites men of every country, sect and opinion, and conciliates true friendship among those who might, otherwise, have remained at a perpetual distance.

To relieve the distressed is a duty incumbent upon all men; but particularly on Masons, who are linked together by an indissoluble chain of sincere affection. To soothe the unhappy, to sympathize with their misfortunes, to compassionate their miseries, and to restore peace to their troubled minds, is the grand aim we have in view. On this basis we form our friendships and establish our connections.

These two quotes are taken from sources that are in the public domain and are easily found.

I only quote them because, to me, they represent the best of Masonry.

By nature all people are imperfect and Freemasons are no exception. Our only goal is to try and make life better for all people and sometimes that gets misinterpreted.

Finally each Mason is left to himself to understand and apply these rules. Many of us don't do such a good job all the time but most of us try.

I hope this helps you understand us. I know I have been particularly harsh at times when criticized or challenged, but I honestly believe in what I am doing and I hope nobody has been too offended.

Originally posted by emsed1
This information is in the public domain and I believe it does not reveal anything I am sworn to conceal, but it is representative of some of our beliefs.

The Charge can be shown to the public.

Originally posted by telepathicjon
there is a secret part of the masons that nobody knows about called the 33rd

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's nothing "secret" about it. I'm a 33rd Degree S.R. Mason and plenty of people know about that. Particularly those who elected me to become one several years ago. I wear a 33rd Degree ring, too. And at meetings I wear the official 33rd Degree cap (shown in my avatar).

No secret there.

members and one of these people were sent to me because I'm spreading telepathy

Oh, I thought you were spreading something else.

and the eye on the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill is the 'all seeing eye' or third eye of their telepathic orginazation,

It's the all-seeing eye, alright, but it doesn't "belong" to us. What makes you think that?

they themselves would deny this ability.

Certainly. Because it's not true.

God is protecting me from atempts of people trying to kill me and anyone else who would spread telepathy.

That's a relief. I was worried for you at first.

The God of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God Bless you all u2u me if you want to know more about telepathy

I'll pass, but thanks for offering. Keep "spreading" though.

And at meetings I wear the official 33rd Degree cap (shown in my avatar).

And all this time i thought it was some kinda cake. Oops.
Sorry for thinking your hat looked delicious, Appak.

I'm sure most masons are nice people but how can you trust anyone who delights in keeping secrets? I also think, and I know the masons on here will jump all over me for saying this, that there are dangerous aspects to the brotherhood, most probably hidden from sight of the ordinary members of the freemasons. If you like, I think it has two faces. One which we see here on ATS. Masons who are quite willing to speak about their experiences within the group, and another secret, hidden face which may be up to all manner of dark deeds.
Wouldn't it be ironic if the society with secrets kept it's biggest secret from it's own members. . ?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I'm sure most masons are nice people but how can you trust anyone who delights in keeping secrets? I also think, and I know the masons on here will jump all over me for saying this, that there are dangerous aspects to the brotherhood, most probably hidden from sight of the ordinary members of the freemasons. If you like, I think it has two faces. One which we see here on ATS. Masons who are quite willing to speak about their experiences within the group, and another secret, hidden face which may be up to all manner of dark deeds.
Wouldn't it be ironic if the society with secrets kept it's biggest secret from it's own members. . ?

As much as I enjoy a good sparring session with anyone who would like an open debate on Masonry, idle speculation, and derogatory comments are just not cool. C'mon people, I , and perhaps other Brethren, are tiring of "just my opinion" comments with the same thread re "Higher degrees running things " etc. We have on many occasion offered to answer questions openly about the Fraternity, but it appears that whatever answer we give, is either a lie, or deliberate disinformation to lead you all away from the truth. A quote was made earlier in the post, my apologies to the poster for not making note before my rant, and if you read that portion of the EA final charge, you will find the core of what Masonry is. Beleive it or not.

reply to post by dredz


We have on many occasion offered to answer questions openly about the Fraternity, but it appears that whatever answer we give, is either a lie, or deliberate disinformation to lead you all away from the truth.
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But the irony of this is that you admit that you have to keep the secrets and then expect us all to believe what you tell us when you've made it quite clear that you can't tell us anything of any real importance!
I personally don't go along with the masons are trying to rule the world theory but I do believe there are things within the brotherhood that only those at the very top know about. The rest of you, the descent ordinary masons carry on with your good deeds and charity work not realising, or refusing to accept that there is plenty of scope for there to be one more secret that you're not let in on!
If there was something inherently evil hiding away within the upper eschelons of the freemasons don't you think it would be the perfect cover to have the rest of you raising money for good causes and helping the local community? Who would ever suspect that something which on the surface does so much good would hide something evil?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But the irony of this is that you admit that you have to keep the secrets...

A few handshakes, some antiquated words and a few other assorted items regarding the ritual are all we 'keep secret'. I put that in quotes because, if you really wanted to know that badly what they were, you could probably find them in a few seconds on Google.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.



But that would not be Freemasonry. The group I joined is the group we tell you about. We have even come out here and told you the secrets were there. Everything I can't tell you is in one book. You can buy it or borrow it. You might even be able to read it for free on the internet. Before I worry about what Appak and the rest of the 33rds are doing, I would worry about what goes on in congress when they decide what they are going to spend the next 700 billion on. If there was a secret agenda at the top, then why would people who spend their lives living masonicly, immediately convert over to child sacrifice and worshiping lucifer without ever spilling the beans? Most would quit and fell like their lives were a fake. Common sense has to play a little part in these conversations. I will say this in print where all can read it. If there is ever a great masonic conspiracy to do evil and I find out about it, I will tell the world on national news. Of course no body will believe me because I must me lying. I am after all a freemason. If you could really know what it is all about, you would laugh at all your previous posts for days. And you are one of the mild ones. Just do me this favor, If you ever decide to join and uncover the deep dark secret, look me up and tell me about what you found. I only wish everyone could know the secret and actually listen to it. I can't think of a single world problem that could not be solved by truely living what we are taught.

Hi Augustusmasonicus and Mason Mike. I understand what you're saying but I just wonder if the upper eschelons of the masons have secrets which even it's own members may not know about? I'm not vilifying anyone here. All I'm saying is that any society which is promoted as being secret, even if those secrets are available in book form, leaves itself open to conspiracy theorists who will always claim that they are hiding something. Are you really that confident and sure that you're being told everything? Is there no room for there to be hidden secrets which even the mainstream masons don't know about?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Hi Augustusmasonicus and Mason Mike. I understand what you're saying but I just wonder if the upper eschelons of the masons have secrets which even it's own members may not know about? I'm not vilifying anyone here. All I'm saying is that any society which is promoted as being secret, even if those secrets are available in book form, leaves itself open to conspiracy theorists who will always claim that they are hiding something. Are you really that confident and sure that you're being told everything? Is there no room for there to be hidden secrets which even the mainstream masons don't know about?

Much of what you're talking about is more due to the our modern day culture rubbing up along with the remnants of an older one. If the roots lie with a mediaeval artisan culture that was protective and secretive about it's guild-based employment or whether they date back to a time where gentleman's clubs, societies and 'intellectual interest groups' were pretty much de rigueur, it's only when these are taken out of context that they really seem suspicious or alien.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I understand what you're saying but I just wonder if the upper eschelons of the masons have secrets which even it's own members may not know about?

I will be better able to answer you if I you can give me an explanation of what you feel the 'upper eschelons' are.

All I'm saying is that any society which is promoted as being secret, even if those secrets are available in book form, leaves itself open to conspiracy theorists who will always claim that they are hiding something.

I undertsand this viewpoint, and while I disagree with the rationale, people are free to speculate as they wish. I can only give you my perspective as a member which you may choose to accept or disregard.

Are you really that confident and sure that you're being told everything?

Yes, I am, as I joined as a bit of a skeptic and have found zero evidence to support the belief of a over-arching conspiracy being present.

Is there no room for there to be hidden secrets which even the mainstream masons don't know about?

Could there be Masons somewhere using their affiliation to furrther their aims/ambitions? Certainly. Do I feel that this is the very rare exception to the rule? Absolutely. It is not Masonry if you abuse the Fraternity in this manner.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I will be better able to answer you if I you can give me an explanation of what you feel the 'upper eschelons' are.
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Just imagine the freemasons as a huge business with departments in various cities around the country. The ordinary workers (masonic members) look up at the assistant manager for guidance. He in turn reports to the manager who in turn reports to the area manager, and so on until you reach the share holders and eventual business owners.
If we think of a lodge as the city base couldn't you be forgiven for not knowing what the Area manager is up to or has in store for you. And couldn't he in turn be forgiven for not knowing what the share holders are doing. . ?
You seem to be extremely confident that there is no real room for conspiracy but I don't think anyone can be entirely sure of that.