I've never understood atheism

My parents were never religious. They rebelled against their strict childhoods, but couldn't come up with anything better, and so grew up to be losers. My father kept a Bible around the house because he was a Rastafarian. I'm convinced that my mother became an MC job during her heavy drug use as a child.

I was never religious, although I have read the Bible, going so far as to learn Hebrew and Greek to translate it. From what I see, every accepted translation is waaay off. The translators seem to have been politically motivated. The King James Version seems to be the closest at times, but at other times it is grammatically incorrect or otherwise confusing.

The big issue, in my opinion, is that the Church tries hard to convince people that they cannot have God without either the Church or Jesus. Those who have tried the Christian thing -- and decided that they don't like it -- convince themselves that because the Church is false, God must also be false. They then proclaim themselves to be "rational" or "humanistic," although their entire life-purpose is based on nothing but false reactionsim.

Then there are those who insist that faith is foolish. Faith is required to do a lot of things in a civilized society, so I reject that notion outright (unless the word "faith" is used in reference to a female).

Then there are people who insist that humans are a freakish casualty of the Primordial Soup. They cannot explain phenomena like intuitive powers or even the origin of the universe. To them, it's all just a coincidence, but they cannot provide a reason why. Their opposition to divine order is a form of faith in and of itself.

I've become convinced that atheism is simply a tool of the Illuminati, for those who have been beaten into submission by others falsely proclaiming themselves to be "religious"

Atheist is a tool of the illuminati, the problem is that when antichrist comes whom they are preparing for, they will have to believe in God.

So in other words the illum. are satanist. or freemasons.



You think about people who believe that after death, that's it. Allk darkness. No more memories, no more fun, no more life, just blackness. That's a scary belief to promote considering there is no proof for evolution.


and so it comes from souls who are afraid to embrace something they will have to put above themselves and also it means their lifestyle will have to become more spiritual.

Like I said, the rebellious soul always fears an idea of God because he might have to become subject.


It all comes down to sin, what people want to give up, rebellion, and other factors.

Think of it like this. Most athiest say that they just don't believe God is real. yet you hardly see them say that they (hope) God is real.

They go out of their way to disprove him.

It's a defense mechanism IMO because deep down they don't want him to exist.



anyways good post, glad to hear your sincerity concerning this issue.




peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


Atheist is a tool of the illuminati, the problem is that when antichrist comes whom they are preparing for, they will have to believe in God.

So in other words the illum. are satanist. or freemasons.

Not believing in the biblical god does not make you a satanist. To be a satanist you have to acknowledge that satan exsists. Else by the same logic we are all pastafarians also.

You think about people who believe that after death, that's it. Allk darkness. No more memories, no more fun, no more life, just blackness. That's a scary belief to promote considering there is no proof for evolution.

I find the concept of a garden of unlimited pleasures and countless virgins awaiting me in the afterlife if only I strap a bomb to my chest and take out a lot of innocent people to be a much scarier thought.
Not believeing in an afterlife only encourages you to do what you can for your fellow man in this life, instead of ignoring the wrongdoings of the world in the hope that some mystical sky diety will sort it all out for you in the next life.

Think of it like this. Most athiest say that they just don't believe God is real. yet you hardly see them say that they (hope) God is real.

They go out of their way to disprove him.

It's a defense mechanism IMO because deep down they don't want him to exist.

Saying that god isnt real is kind of a prequisite to being an Atheist
Personly I would love to find out he is real and that I am wrong. He could come and solve all the worlds problems, set things to rights and I'd be happy to spend eternity in a fiery pit if he would come and save the human race from itself, a small price to pay.
But (for me) its a pretty safe bet that I'm better off enjoying my 10% in this life and accepting responsibility for my own actions and their consequences, guided only by the laws of my country and my own moral compass.

Actually having talked to many agnostics and atheists I understand where they come from.
Basically it comes down to, "If there is an all powerful God he would have done something by now" and I fully understand that. But our 100 year life span is a huge limiter on our ability to think beyond our own personal existence and life span, God has no such limitations.

God not doing anything to intervene in human affairs that is clearly visible, for the good of humanity, violates a person sense of justice to a huge degree and it can drive them away from faith.

Organized religions tract record for evil deeds doesn't help either.
Also a base desire to not be accountable for our actions to a higher being.
God is basically everyone's Dad. And at one point we were all at least some what accountable to our parents. Some people once they hit a certain age don't want to be accountable to anybody ever. Do anything and everything guilt free.

So I understand it. But I don't agree with it.

Not believing in the biblical god does not make you a satanist. To be a satanist you have to acknowledge that satan exsists. Else by the same logic we are all pastafarians also.

(salamandrax)

No you don't understand who the illuminati are. The masons worship in the 33rd degree Lucifer. I agree it doesn't make you a satanist, didn't say it does.



Personly I would love to find out he is real and that I am wrong

some mystical sky diety will sort it all out for you in the next life.


(salamandrax)


You see but those two sentences seem to contradict each other. We don't see God as a mystical sky being which implies to me you have already made your mind up. If you did wish he was real, then stay open minded.


Now the fact is that God works through prayer. Pray helps more then any wars and anything you can do because of grace which produces love.


Suffering for a soul and praying for them helps more then any violence or intervetion you can do because it affects the soul on the other person rather then taking things in your own hands physically.


but ayways continue the thread.

Salamandrax

For those of us who do believe in him he does do things for us. The reason the world has gone to pot is that we have free will. God doesn't force his will onto anyone. We choose to behave how we want to.

If God came down right now and saved the world then you can toss free will out the window. It wouldn't be needed because there would be proof that God exists.
I can't think of anyone that could find out that God really did exist and not turn around and start following him.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
(salamandrax)

No you don't understand who the illuminati are. The masons worship in the 33rd degree Lucifer. I agree it doesn't make you a satanist, didn't say it does.

I'm a follower of the Illuminati conspiracy myself and dont believe that all the main conspirators are mason's.
Mason's to the best of my (probably quite limited) understanding worship a three headed god named Jehbulon? or Jahbulon? Not Satan or Lucifer, who is most commonly worshipped by angsty teens and black metal bands from Norway.

You see but those two sentences seem to contradict each other. We don't see God as a mystical sky being which implies to me you have already made your mind up. If you did wish he was real, then stay open minded.

I have made my mind up yes, and I am of the opinion that God as depicted in the bible is a fabrication. I am an Athiest which is why I posted in this thread, to offer an Athiest's viewpoint
Being an Athiest also means I do not believe in the devil.
However I would very much like to be proven wrong. In the same way that I KNOW if i got Aids I'm a gonner, but would very much like someone to show up with a miracle cure, and would be overjoyed for that to happen.

Now the fact is that God works through prayer. Pray helps more then any wars and anything you can do because of grace which produces love.
Suffering for a soul and praying for them helps more then any violence or intervetion you can do because it affects the soul on the other person rather then taking things in your own hands physically.

I would counter that by saying that love is a human emotion and comes from within us, not from grace and not from any outside force.
As much as I find the idea of prayer a very beautiful concept there is only your own belief that shows it to work.
Taking personal action and for instance, feeding a homeless person will have more immediate and direct effect than praying for thier soul as they starve to death.
I dont mean to sound disrespectful of your belief's but wanted to put the athiest viewpoint forward due to the title of the thread
Peace.

Ant4AU
I agree, I dont think anyone who found out and could prove that God exsisted as depicted in the bible could fail to follow him. Sadly, we cannot prove that he does or does not.
There are signs and patterns in nature that suggest some form of intelligent design/guidance. But can we say for certain which dietific force is responsible for this?
The christian god? Allah? Buddah? The gray's? Flying spaghetti monster?
I know it says in the bible that it was your God, but remember that Athiests have no more reason to believe what that book says than they would a mills & boon novel, or harry potter. Or even the instructional maunal for a 1969 Volkswagon beetle


Edited : Corrected some terrible spelling on my part


[edit on 4-3-2009 by Salamandrax]

reply to post by Salamandrax


Salamandrax It thank you for respectfully sharing you views that doesn't happen enough here again thank you.

Yes the bible tells me that my God is the one true God. As Koran says Allah is the true God, but what if this is just different interpretations of God. The religious text were only inspired by a God they were still written by man and unfortunately their was prejudices put in the writings.

We all know that the bible has bits missing. As i am sure the Koran does also, and we all know that religion is a good way for someone to take advantage of people. These IMHO is why there are so many branches in religion and leading to the whole My God could beat up your God arguments.

Like I said to me all these Gods could be the same God interpreted in many different ways. I hope I am not sounding preachy because that is not my intent.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Actually having talked to many agnostics and atheists I understand where they come from.
Basically it comes down to, "If there is an all powerful God he would have done something by now" and I fully understand that. But our 100 year life span is a huge limiter on our ability to think beyond our own personal existence and life span, God has no such limitations.

God not doing anything to intervene in human affairs that is clearly visible, for the good of humanity, violates a person sense of justice to a huge degree and it can drive them away from faith.

Organized religions tract record for evil deeds doesn't help either.
Also a base desire to not be accountable for our actions to a higher being.
God is basically everyone's Dad. And at one point we were all at least some what accountable to our parents. Some people once they hit a certain age don't want to be accountable to anybody ever. Do anything and everything guilt free.

So I understand it. But I don't agree with it.

Yeah God rewards, but God also punishes. The Bible itself says that we are all sinners.

Viewing someone else as "innocent" or "undeserving" can at times be our own desire for "innocence" projected onto that victim. Only God knows that person's entire life story

If the Christian Bible is correct, then the majority of the world's population (as they aren't Christians) are doomed to hell...

That's the thing with most Western religions that espouse a punishment for nonbelievers...it creates a paradox (how can a loving deity damn most of the world to hell)...

Is it really a wonder people fall away from organized religion?

So in other words the illum. are satanist. or freemasons.

Freemasons actually must believe in some kind of grand architect or God, to put it another way... Likewise, Satanist views are far from atheistic...

I'm not sure how to classify myself...

I don't believe any existing religion has it right (and to do so, would mean all others are wrong)...but I do believe there is some kind of force behind it all...I just don't think we have a clue as to its nature...

reply to post by Gazrok

Gazrock
how can a loving deity damn most of the world to hell)...

Look at it like this, it's only my opinion so don't shoot me, We have free will. We choose to either seek out God or not to. God does not force his will on anyone. So is he condemning you to "hell" or are you condemning yourself?

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I think you bring up a good point. Believing in god would not only mean being a subject... but it would also mean that they would actually have to do the "difficult" thing and try and be a righteous person, which means no more one night stands, no more looking at pornography, in some cases, it would mean no more affairs and you can forget about divorce. You made a vow on your wedding day, whether you like it or not. But it's all not just centered on sexuality, but also other aspects as well. This just happens to be one of the most prominent reasons I can think of.

As I said, to me it seems, that Atheists might not want a God to exist, so they can justify whatever sinful behavior they have. I know because I too was an Atheist, or at least Gnostic (spiritual, but didn't believe in God) until fairly recently. When I was young, I used to be devout, then lost myself in my teen years, then found myself back in my mid 20's

It's always easier to say "oh screw it! There is no god, so it's ok if I (insert sinful beavior)" Or take advantage of someone for your own purposes and say "To heck with him/her, this is how things are, survival of the fittest baby! Don't like it? go dig a hole for yourself!" and loose your humanity in the process. Than it is to say "Well am I really doing the right thing?" I know what it feels like because I still struggle with this even now. But at least now, I feel more comforted because I believe that as long as I don't stray and always remember, I'll be led down the right path.

To Salamandrax,
My step brother had recently been diagnosed with Hepatitis C, a liver disease that apparently he might've gotten from a lip piercing he got. We were told it would more than likely kill him, and if by some chance they had caught it at the right stage where he could be cured, chances are he would still die shortly due to other diseases that would've entered from the damage done to the liver.

They took his blood and said they were going to do a test for 8 days to culture the disease so they could figure out what stage he was in. Our whole family gathered and prayed for him. Now I'm not talking about SCRIPTED prayer ("our father, yadda yadda") no, this was an honest, SINCERE "hey God, are you listening? Can I get a few moments of your time?"

Guess what? The doctor called and had said that yes, he does have it, however, it has gone DORMANT, meaning? it will stay in his body, but he will not suffer the disease. No cure or surgery was needed, they just asked that he watch his diet. But other than that, he's pretty much normal.

Is that a big enough of a miracle?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Those who have tried the Christian thing -- and decided that they don't like it -- convince themselves that because the Church is false, God must also be false.

This is just one of the many incorrect assumptions made about atheism.

The only generalization that can be made about atheists is that they don't believe in God. Period.

There's no other inherent beliefs that are common to all atheists except for that one. Nothing about satan, life after death, spirituality, evolution and certainly not the Illuminati.

There are many and varied reasons why people become atheists. Trying to round them up in a group is fruitless, because they only have ONE belief in common.

You may never understand atheism. But that's ok. I don't understand the religious. But I accept and respect them.

Originally posted by Salamandrax
I'm a follower of the Illuminati conspiracy myself and dont believe that all the main conspirators are mason's.
Mason's to the best of my (probably quite limited) understanding worship a three headed god named Jehbulon? or Jahbulon? Not Satan or Lucifer, who is most commonly worshipped by angsty teens and black metal bands from Norway.

Actually, Freemasons worship the male penis. They try to cover it up by mentioning all sorts of gods, including Lucifer and Jah-Bal-On.

I have made my mind up yes, and I am of the opinion that God as depicted in the bible is a fabrication. I am an Athiest which is why I posted in this thread, to offer an Athiest's viewpoint

Being an Athiest also means I do not believe in the devil.
However I would very much like to be proven wrong. In the same way that I KNOW if i got Aids I'm a gonner, but would very much like someone to show up with a miracle cure, and would be overjoyed for that to happen.

Saying that because the Church or the Bible is false, and so God is false, is not a rational determination. That's a point I brought up in the OP

I would counter that by saying that love is a human emotion and comes from within us, not from grace and not from any outside force.
As much as I find the idea of prayer a very beautiful concept there is only your own belief that shows it to work.
Taking personal action and for instance, feeding a homeless person will have more immediate and direct effect than praying for thier soul as they starve to death.
I dont mean to sound disrespectful of your belief's but wanted to put the athiest viewpoint forward due to the title of the thread

Peace.

That is actually what the Freemasons claim, that God is "within you." They also promote "humanism" which seems like what you are describing.

In order to feed a homeless person, a thought must be planted in your mind that it's better to do so, than not to do so. It might be a good idea just to stay confident that people can care for themselves instead of treating them like babies. Not taking on all of the burdens of the world can be liberating.

At times, people also make poor decisions that were believed to be correct, but were really based on partial or false information. For instance, someone whom you think is homeless might be a slacker, or might actually want to be destitute, or might even be conducting an undercover investigation. And who's to say that every homeless person is dying of starvation?

Ant4AU
I agree, I dont think anyone who found out and could prove that God exsisted as depicted in the bible could fail to follow him. Sadly, we cannot prove that he does or does not.
There are signs and patterns in nature that suggest some form of intelligent design/guidance. But can we say for certain which dietific force is responsible for this?

God doesn't have a name. We simply use a word to fill in that void. Even in Tao Te Ching, it says that no Tao that has a name is the true Tao.

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by Salamandrax

 

Like I said to me all these Gods could be the same God interpreted in many different ways. I hope I am not sounding preachy because that is not my intent.

Actually, I'd hate to break it to you, but they are different gods.

Jews and Muslims supposedly worship a moon god, whereas Christians supposedly worship a sun god. In actuality, there are multiple gods, even within supposedly monotheistic religions.

The hypocrisy is obvious, but that doesn't mean that the concept of a divine Creator is false.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Muslims do not worship a moon god, that would be illogical to the teachings.

Originally posted by Gazrok
If the Christian Bible is correct, then the majority of the world's population (as they aren't Christians) are doomed to hell...

I'm not sure how to classify myself...

I don't believe any existing religion has it right (and to do so, would mean all others are wrong)...but I do believe there is some kind of force behind it all...I just don't think we have a clue as to its nature...

I've heard that the label is "spiritual non-religious" but that label isn't used in the mainstream media or in questionnaires and the like.

In a way, many people see imperfections with the system that they follow, but refuse to face the void that comes with having to create something new from the bottom up. They instead become "humanists," "moralists," "nihilists" or even atheistic or agnostic. At least for those other isms, there is already an instruction manual. What the instructions don't mention, however, is that the related writings are nothing more than efforts to recruit followers, rather than any search for truth.

I see where people are coming from by mentioning "Satanism." They are not refering to bonafide Satanism, but to Anton LaVey's Church of Satanism which is more of a parody of mainstream religion than a system for sincere worship of the Devil. I would say that "Satanism," in that respect, more existentialist or nihilist than theist.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Muslims do not worship a moon god, that would be illogical to the teachings.

What are those teachings?

[edit on 5-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]