Marine Charged with Threatening Obama

The officer corp who will be responsible for carrying out the orders of the COC are at odds with his pedigree. Its NOT an isolated opinion, I assure you!

"At odds with his pedigree"?

What the hell does that mean?

Frankly, they should resign then.

We don't need our .mil infiltrated by ideological zealots whose loyalty is to an extremist ideology and not their country.

That's a recipe for disaster.

What I said is that they have reservations as to his nationality and natural birth as stated in the constitution and his right to command. If that's being extremeist then no official should question anyones attempt to give orders? What I stated is fact. Your idea that anyone who considers orders before executing them should resign, is the reason things like the Mi Lai massacre occured. All orders, and whether the person giving them has the power to, mustbe considered. Blind obedience is not required under the MCOO, even though many think it is!
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone

Maybe some time on other boards that cater to sevicemen and women who can post annonomously their opinions would show you that there is a trend, and its not JUST lower ranks. The officer corp who will be responsible for carrying out the orders of the COC are at odds with his pedigree. Its NOT an isolated opinion, I assure you!

I know its not an isolated oppinion and suspect its a gathering storm.

I fear that in part its a storm the Administration might in fact wish to have rain down on it, to justify that million man paramilitary civilian security force "to be funded and equipped as well as the regular armed services"

reply to post by xmotex

We don't need our .mil infiltrated by ideological zealots whose loyalty is to an extremist ideology and not their country.

I would dare say the Nation itself is not the President past, present or future but the people and their prevailing attitutes and wishes as evidenced through their votes, correspondences with their representatives, and other forms of public oppinion.

The current apparent claim of the so called majority of which the majority of are silent but for a few outspoken zealots that the prevaling attitute is shut up and sit down if you don't like it, is a pretty contrary one to have for those who claim our democracy is at work properly and functioning.

Well if the .mil were really as much in the far right's corner as the far right likes to believe, it might be a good idea - a military coup would not be a good thing.

Fortunately, living in San Diego, I happen to know quite a few US Marines and Sailors, and they seem to think the far right is as crazy as I do.

A bunch of them even (gasp!) voted for Obama, including guys that have served multiple tours in Iraq.

So I'm not really worried about a military coup - not a successful one anyway.

Part of me kind of hopes they try it though - it would be a good way to weed out the fanatical fringe.

reply to post by xmotex

Part of me kind of hopes they try it though - it would be a good way to weed out the fanatical fringe.

Fanatical is the inability to see beyond the left/right paradigm.

Qualifying one's legitimacy to serve through a verifiable and certifiable legally empowered constitutionally overseen independent body of independent judiciary should not have to be tainted with partisan politics.

No offense meant but a fanatic to the left is no different than a fanatic to the right when both are trampling on the constitution and insisting its partisan to suggest they can't be above the constitution.

It would be great if people could see beyond those categorized pittfalls and traps and just learn to love the entire process for what it is.

No offense meant but a fanatic to the left is no different than a fanatic to the right when both are trampling on the constitution and insisting its partisan to suggest they can't be above the constitution.

As much as I am far more worried about the fanatical right at the moment, I do not disagree, I wouldn't want to see the military infiltrated by the extreme left either.

I'm not much interested in the far left really, I'm hardly a fan

I make a conscious effort to eschew any kind of ideology in favor of principle and pragmatism.

You could describe me as a run of the mill "liberal" I suppose, if you ignored my positions on gun control (strongly anti), nuclear power (strongly pro), manned space exploration (strongly pro), F-22 (pro), affirmative action (anti), market economics (pro, although admittedly more "tame market" than "free market) etc. etc....

Originally posted by xmotex

No offense meant but a fanatic to the left is no different than a fanatic to the right when both are trampling on the constitution and insisting its partisan to suggest they can't be above the constitution.

As much as I am far more worried about the fanatical right at the moment, I do not disagree, I wouldn't want to see the military infiltrated by the extreme left either.

I'm not much interested in the far left really, I'm hardly a fan

I make a conscious effort to eschew any kind of ideology in favor of principle and pragmatism.

You could describe me as a run of the mill "liberal" I suppose, if you ignored my positions on gun control (strongly anti), nuclear power (strongly pro), manned space exploration (strongly pro), F-22 (pro), affirmative action (anti), market economics (pro, although admittedly more "tame market" than "free market) etc. etc....

I am more a Ron Paul kind of guy. Let the rest of the world look after itself if it falls apart on them oh well. Don't conduct any lopsided foreign policy that makes you an enemy of any one people or idealogy.

Let markets fend for themselves. Keep the government small and out of our lives. Screw up break a law go to jail.

Have simple transparent laws that EVERYONE has to follow.

Have a sound currency backed by something tangible that is stable and its value easy to understand.

Provide clear, easy to understand, simple and strictly enforced laws to ensure honesty and propriety in the financial markets.

Go home at the end of the day, pat your dog on the head, light up the grill watch the sun set, and pray Donnie and Marie Osmand don't become the next Lawrence Welk Show!

Pretty simple.

I can mostly sympathize, but I don't believe in Libertarian laissez-faire economics - I think they are as "pie in the sky," unrealistic, and ideologically faith-based as Communist economics.

As we've seen recently, allow big money enough leeway to screw the rest of us, and it will do so happily. Similarly, get rid of the FDA, and you'll have salmonella in every chicken basket because some crook wants to save a few bucks...

We saw that kind of unrestricted capitalism at the turn of the last century, Charles Dickens wrote about it's consequences for the average person very eloquently.

However it's also true that every .gov intervention in the economy incurs a cost of some sort or other - regulation is neither good nor bad in and of itself, over regulation is just as bad as under regulation - IMO any regulation/intervention in the market should be subject to a realistic cost/benefit analysis. I'm all for making the regulatory environment simpler and less costly, as long as it still accomplishes its goals.

Libertarian laissez-faire economics is a very appealing idea that doesn't work in the real world, just like Marxism. (I'm an ex-Libertarian Party member myself BTW.)

Still, I have a great deal of respect for Rep. Paul, I think he's wrong about some things, but he's a stand-up guy and has the courage of his convictions.

We need more like him.

You'll notice he hasn't been pushing this Birth Certificate non-issue himself by the way: he's focused on the real issues.

[edit on 3/1/09 by xmotex]

reply to post by xmotex

Libertarian laissez-faire economics is a very appealing idea that doesn't work in the real world, just like Marxism. (I'm an ex-Libertarian Party member myself BTW.)

The reality is no system works 100% well 100% of the time. Even when it's formulas are sound on paper. There is one simple reason for that. The human equation. Human beings are flawed and make mistakes of many kinds. That's a variable no quotiant has quite ever figured out how to overcome.

When I was a kid a Bank couldn't cross state lines to open a branch. When I was a young adult they couldn't cross the Mississippi. Now they drive up and down the street peddling popcycles like the good humor man!

The anti-trust and monopoly laws simply aren't being enforced. The argument for globilization is in reality for all intents and purposes an argument for submerging individual nation's sovereignty.

If business are local the FDA becomes you. When the President of the company resides in Dubai and his headquarters are in Malaysia it's a little hard to go punch him in the nose and hand him a rag and tell him he's cleaning up little Johny's vommit from the bad hotdog he had manufactured in Brazil and sold to you in Paris, California.

Monopolies have used their leverage through capital to force out the small guy by creating price points utilizing both a maximized customer base and bulk purchases of materials and labor from where ever they can get it cheapest.

Quality in products has suffered, quality of opportunity has suffered, quality of the economy has suffered right along with it, and more often than not, no agency can weed through all the mounds of paper work through a trail of corporate fronts, entities, and nations to effectively regulate anything.

The system is simply out of control, too few people own too many things and take no personal responsibility for the well being or prosperity of the customer base that enriches them.

Personally I won't shop at Wal-Mart and would drive a hundred miles out of my way to buy something for 10 times more that says made in America.

Government is never the solution, people are the solution. Common sense is the solution, and a harried, underpaid, undereducated, overly manipulated society is bound to be running pretty short on common sense and is.

There is an old saying that truly does work. Keep it simple, keep it stupid.

They have the stupid part down pat, the way they arrived at it is far from simple!

Very sad those 5 years are going to feel pretty stupid the soldier probably had a history of getting in trouble for his own unit to slam him like that. When i was in i heard alot of my fellow soldiers talking about what we dreamed of doing to bush. But alas the ucmj is the ugliest court system there is....

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

What are the qualities and things that make you confident in your Commander in Chief?

1- His ability to efficiently take directions from a ruling oligarchy and implement their wishes as speedily as possible.

2- His ability to speak confidently, play the part that the masses crave, and woo them into unobjectionable sublimation, believing that they are free.

3- His name has to mean eucharist, or kundalini in arabic, symbolic of a process his country will be experiencing en masse.

These are qualities i look for to make me feel confident in my Commander in Cheif.


-

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
One day an impressive young Marine was sitting at my desk buying a ticket home to see his folks and as a respectful supporter of men and women in uniform I asked him about his duties in serving our country. It turned out he was a pilot for Marine One, the President’s helicopter. Bush Sr. had just vacated office after being defeated by Clinton and I asked the Marine if he enjoyed working for Clinton as much as Bush. He said some very admiring words about Bush Sr., in a very affectionate way and then some very disparaging words about Clinton in a not so admiring way. He concluded is assessment of his fondness for Clinton by saying “I wish I could just turn around and throw that SOB out of the helicopter in midflight.”

Obviously that Marine never did, but would it have been different if Clinton had been a genuine war time President like Obama is tasked with being?

It’s beginning to look like Obama needs to make some real efforts in stepping up in some way to assure the men and women serving in uniform in this country that he is a Commander in Chief worthy of their respect.

Hailing from a Deep MIL Family myself, I can attest to the pure disgust I have always felt towards Clinton, and his entire Administration, over their disdain for our Men and Women in Uniform. Time and time again they abandoned Our Units running OPS, refused them their Requested Equipment Prior to Such (Somalia anyone?), and in regards to President Clinton, he had to be harassed by the Public into even offering a flimsy salute to the Marines of "Marine One" when Boarding and Disembarking the Helo.

BTW, I know some Marines personally who Obama snubbed at Bagram during his visit there to "Shoot Hoops" for the Media. He never even shook the hand of a single Marine there, he simply strode into the Hangar, Shot a Basket for the Cameras, Spoke to the General, and then Departed. They were all lined up to Greet Him, and he Completely Flat out Ignored them.

Originally posted by kiddjay25
Very sad those 5 years are going to feel pretty stupid the soldier probably had a history of getting in trouble for his own unit to slam him like that. When i was in i heard alot of my fellow soldiers talking about what we dreamed of doing to bush. But alas the ucmj is the ugliest court system there is....

The only individuals I ever heard any "Bush Statements" emanating from were the College Tuition Recruits, who never actually expected to be called up to perform their jobs in the First Place.

Politics do vary in the MIL, but for the most Part the Liberal Presidents as of late have been the Target of Scorn for their lack of Appreciation for the Service.

Originally posted by xmotex
Well if the .mil were really as much in the far right's corner as the far right likes to believe, it might be a good idea - a military coup would not be a good thing.

Fortunately, living in San Diego, I happen to know quite a few US Marines and Sailors, and they seem to think the far right is as crazy as I do.

A bunch of them even (gasp!) voted for Obama, including guys that have served multiple tours in Iraq.

So I'm not really worried about a military coup - not a successful one anyway.

Part of me kind of hopes they try it though - it would be a good way to weed out the fanatical fringe.

LOL, I have never known any MIL who voted for Obama, minus a few Black folks. Most of the MIL is Conservative, and you can take me to the Bank on that. Even the most Liberal of the Personnel I know, do not hold Respect for a POTUS Candidate who shuns the MIL.

Originally posted by felonius

You should consider the possibility of a dirt bag president being elected during your time of enlistment if you are career oriented.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by felonius]

My Old Man had to serve under the likes of President Johnson, and President Carter, if that is an example towards the reality of such.

So a few military men are not happy....this all just smells of rascism. I mean come on..they haven't even given the guy a chance. Bush was in office for eight years and screwed america, while Obama has even been in office long..yet people are asking for him to leave office already. At least give the guy a chance to f over america before you ask for resignation. People will say it isn't racism and it is his politics..well from what I have seen so far...he hasn't even come close to messing up america as bush did. He hasn't called a phony war, he has not put the country in a financial fiasco yet..so what has he done...pretty much nothing but be half black.

Originally posted by riggs2099
So a few military men are not happy....this all just smells of rascism. I mean come on..they haven't even given the guy a chance. Bush was in office for eight years and screwed america, while Obama has even been in office long..yet people are asking for him to leave office already. At least give the guy a chance to f over america before you ask for resignation. People will say it isn't racism and it is his politics..well from what I have seen so far...he hasn't even come close to messing up america as bush did. He hasn't called a phony war, he has not put the country in a financial fiasco yet..so what has he done...pretty much nothing but be half black.

Nope he hasn't put the country in a financial fiasco, but he sure is adding to it isn't he. So far he has spent more then the cost of Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Also, I think you didn't like Bush because he is white. You are probably one of those who said he stole the 2000 election. You never gave him chance because of his color.

Originally posted by jd140

Nope he hasn't put the country in a financial fiasco, but he sure is adding to it isn't he. So far he has spent more then the cost of Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Not exactly. According to nationalpriorities.org the cost of the Iraq War thus far is over $600 billion. www.nationalpriorities.org...

You might be saying so what, that's less than Obama's stimulus bill. Well what you are not taking into account is the high cost of the long-term healthcare for the wounded Iraq war veterans. According to a study the cost of taking care of our wounded Iraq war veterans could reach $700 billion.
www.democracynow.org...

So the real total cost of the Iraq War could likely be double the cost of Obama's stimulus bill.

But there's a big difference between the wars in Iraq and Afghanist and Obama's stimulus bill, the purpose of the stimulus bill is to support our economy, whereas the war in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't help our economy in any way at all.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Is five years hard time appropriate for this and three years supervised release along with a dishonorable discharge and a permanent blotch on his records? Or is it overkill in a case that amounts to little more than small talk?

Heya, Proto, sorry I'm late.
Not at all, if he really meant it. But yes, if he's 'sick'. (If you buy into all that psycho-babble defense stuff). How will any of us actually know for sure, one way, or the other? No-one has mentioned what I thought would be relevant with this Marine: "Psychological Evaluation".

Under the present psychiatric health care system, anyone deemed threatening to themselves, or others, is qualified for committment to a mental institution, diagnosis, and medication, ALONG WITH a criminal sentence. Especially if he has ever done so, in the past.

I couldn't get the military.com article to load; something about upgrading, and come back soon, so I missed out on what the original article said.

The other link you provided works, and I read that one, so forgive me if I'm saying anything that's already been said.

Anyway, big pharma runs the show in this country more than most people realize, and aren't one of the largest entities on the planet for no reason.

They rain money down onto the congress, to keep laws in place for forcibly "treating" (medicating) people who are diagnosed with mental disorders. Almost any kind of emotion, or feeling, or mood is listed in the psychiatrist's desk manual, 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders' (DSM) now.

Personally, I think it's hogwash! But the law is how it is. A psychiatrist scribbles a mental dignosis on a piece of paper, and BAM! That person is forced to take psychopharmocological drugs for the rest of his life! And the drug maker's profits soar!

Do you have any more info or updates about this Marine's sentence, and whether or not the psych issue was ever mentioned?