Marine Charged with Threatening Obama

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

Second, OBAMA needs to make the efforts? What on Earth has he done to not earn their respect? Hell, the man has been in office for only a month, he has never said one bad thing about this country, and you imply that Obama is the one who needs to earn their respect? What did George W. Bush ever do to earn the respect of our soldiers? The man spent eight years in office screwing things up and not a single man in uniform ever threatened his life.

First this is not about Partisan Politics. It's about a noticable trend in news reports that suggest there is some amount of controversy brewing within the ranks of the military.

Second its not about a popularity contest of who didn't/does deserve something.

It's about what appears to be a trend.

Members of the military are in fact questioning something that civilians too have been questioning for months.

Feigned indignity aside, it's pretty simple, some civilians and some soldiers would like to see an independent judiciary verify the authenticity of President Obama's citizenship.

For the record I don't care. No matter who is in the White House they are not on my same social list or calendar. I could care less if they put Desmund Tutu in the job.

I also don't have the responsibility of having to do the job. Being a Commander in Cheif requires being in command.

I wouldn't have hesitated to show my documentation to appropriate authorities in uncontroversial ways.

Then again, I like to think of myself as reasonable.

I am concerned the new President might have a growing situation on his hands.

Yes, it would be up to him to do something about that. He is the one that wanted the job.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You are free to do what you want, just the same as any other job. Depending on the seriousness of the infraction, you just pay the penalty, just like any other job or life for that matter. They don't own you, you just get kicked out or worse, depending on the infraction, but it's your choice, just like in life. You get the same level of punishment on the outside if you steal, or kill. If it's less serious, you are discharged. If they owned you, you wouldn't get out....do you see yet? It's your mentality that THINKS you are less than a human with rights that is dangerous and yes, they do sometimes try to convince you of that and use scare tactics but like I said, within reason , the worst thing you get is "fired". True, it follows you for life though. It's just working for a company with some very strict rules and regulations, although, going AWOL would be an exception now that I think about it.......that could be harsh, not the same as walking out of any other job. Bottom line, now that I'm out, they can smooch my big red butt.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That sure would be one heck of a way to do it. I think it would be kind of easier just to lie and say you were gay?

In this administration, that more likely to get you a medal than relieved of duty.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]

I appreciate your sentiments. For the record the most legendary warriors of all time the Spartans were predominately homo-sexual.

In fact they were so accustomed to life amongst men, many a Spartan Bride had to cut her hair and dress as a man and make her first attempts at consumating her marraige within the Spartan's barracks and often make repeated attempts to lure him away from his fellow soldiers for a life of heterosexual domestication.

I think presidential and military cohesion or lack of is part policy and military spending attitudes. Both Clintons had many accusations of showing an outward contempt of the military and secret service people around them. From what I remember Hilary had more than Bill. Her alleged comments would make the back page every so often. Some of the comments were not so subtle and I remember being personally offended.

You cannot say you want to shoot any body never mind somebody that has thousands of people with no sense of humor on the subject protecting him. It happens, someone makes an offhanded remark with no intention, it’s over heard reported secret service shows up takes you away, searches your house. Officers don’t like people under their command drawing negative attention to them. Some won’t allow negative policy comments let alone death threats. I don’t think he deserves time. Attitude correction yes defiantly.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


When it comes to threatening someone's life, its on the assailant, not the victim or proposed victim.

Yes, people have a right to be skeptical, but again, there is a VERY fine line between questioning someone's legitmacy and threatening someone's life. The issue here is someone threatened a guy's life. When you do that, any argument about legitimacy (at least on that Marine's part) goes out the window.

Wonder how many people here actually know this site is the government....highly monitored, etc...Personally, I don't care, come get some, knuck knuck knuck. Some of us really aren't scared.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

Yes, people have a right to be skeptical, but again, there is a VERY fine line between questioning someone's legitmacy and threatening someone's life. The issue here is someone threatened a guy's life. When you do that, any argument about legitimacy (at least on that Marine's part) goes out the window.

No where in this thread by me or anyone else has anyone condoned this Marine's behavior.

There does seem to be a growing trend though. Whether it is a flash in the pan, or over reported tripe or propoganda for some political purpose is not something I can personally vouch for.

I am against this Marine's actions and violence of all kinds, and threats of violence of all kinds.

This is about whether a trend is happening, whether it is ending or growing.

Frustration never cured anything that I know of?

No one is advocating this behavior. This behavior does concern me though, that's why I posted the thread. This article was burried in the Fayetville News to coincide with President Obama's visit there today, and picked up by Military.com.

It's alternative news! I didn't even make it or report it. I just tagged the article and copied it here for anyone else who cares.

I have zero interest in Partisan politics or overthrowing the government or in President Obama failing as President. I would like to see anyone who holds the office succeed.

I think we all would? I hope so anyway.

When you join the service's, you sign some of your rights away. This is one of them.

Regardless of the worm in office, you can not voice your disapproval. You can think it all you want!

This will deteriorate unit cohesion at least and destroy the fighting effectiveness at worst. You are fighting under your superior officer and for the guy to your left and right.

You should consider the possibility of a dirt bag president being elected during your time of enlistment if you are career oriented.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by felonius]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I know this is a very loaded and very serious topic that some people for good reason might shy away from wanting to weigh in…but, more specifically to ATS Members in Uniform what things could President Obama do to gain added respect in your eyes?

What are the qualities and things that make you confident in your Commander in Chief?

The only way and I mean the only way this guy will ever earn my respect and the respect of every honorable serviceman is to show the world his damn original birth certificate and his damn original copy of his reg. for selective service.

If he continues to ignore the wishes of the people and the wishes of every single service man who has questions, he will get thrown out of office eventually. They will find proof if he is lying and has fasified records, documents and his damn birth certificate.

Why should anybody obey one command or order from this guy if he will not show the people who fight for this country and keep his ass free a simple little birth certificate. Myself, I keep three nice fresh crisp copies all the time. In my opinion, the reason he does not show it and continues to stonewall the courts and the wishes of the people is that he is in deed hiding something that could be absolutly devastating to his career and perhaps at this point even put him and many others in prison for treason in time of war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he has nothing to hide then he should show the documents that the people want to see. The End!!!


Eye of Eagle

for those who speak of the oath taken by our millitary there also is an oath taken as comander in chief the way our constitution has been abused by polititians over the years which is worse opinion or treason ?

reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE

The only way and I mean the only way this guy will ever earn my respect and the respect of every honorable serviceman is to show the world his damn original birth certificate and his damn original copy of his reg. for selective service.

I can appreciate your feelings in this regard. And honestly I do feel if he wants to be the Nation's President and more especially it's Commander and Cheif their is a real burden upon him to display to both the citizens and citizen soldiers he takes his own responsibility to personally adhere to and respect the Constitutional process.

I can't think of a valid reason why he has chosen not to put both groups at ease by submitting his documents to an independent Federal Judiciary to certify beyond any shadow of a doubt his eligibility.

When last I checked Factcheck.org was not an independent branch of government charged by the Constitution to uphold a series of checks and balances.

His determined refusal to do so is potentially ominous and so is what seems to be a mounting wave of concern within the nation's military.

Now more than ever the nation needs real transparency to restore trust in Government.

The attitude that it is a privelage to serve seems to have been over taken by the attitude of I should enjoy privelages because I serve by far to many politicians on everyside of the aisle.

Thanks for your post and thanks for your service to the nation.

Originally posted by uaocteaou
He doesn't need to impress them or convince them of anything, he's the commander in chief.
You respect the office, not the man.
Regardless of their opinions of Obama as a person or whatever, they had BETTER respect the position, it's in their oath.

That is a very idealist point of view. Not very realistic.
Especially during these times, when the people who climb to power are, more and more often, indecent, twisted, morally degenerate entities.
President Obama has left MANY questions unanswered, and to a lot of Americans, he is equal to an "Usurper of the Throne".
You can't just force that kind of sentiment to go away.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

You can't just force that kind of sentiment to go away.

This is my concern too. I don't think you can force this type of sentiment to go away. There is a trend developing here that could lead to real chaos and anarchy if the President chooses to ignore these nagging questions and continues to thwart and extoll or condone his supporters in thwarting an independent judiciary from weighing in definatively on the matter.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SumnerKagan

 

You can't just force that kind of sentiment to go away.

This is my concern too. I don't think you can force this type of sentiment to go away. There is a trend developing here that could lead to real chaos and anarchy if the President chooses to ignore these nagging questions and continues to thwart and extoll or condone his supporters in thwarting an independent judiciary from weighing in definatively on the matter.

Three soldiers isn't a trend.

As for the birth certificate thing he's already provided the Live Birth certificate which essentially certifies that his birth certificate exists. Hawaii has his birth certificate so if people want it they need to go talk to Hawaii, not Obama. Of course Hawaii will rightfully tell them it's none of your damn business.

If soldiers want to be court martialled because of this birth certificate thing, that's up to them. I think these soldiers considering this need to ask themselves what's more important, serving their country or forcing Hawaii to give up a private document, Obama's birth certificate.

reply to post by Leto

As for the birth certificate thing he's already provided the Live Birth certificate which essentially certifies that his birth certificate exists. Hawaii has his birth certificate so if people want it they need to go talk to Hawaii, not Obama. Of course Hawaii will rightfully tell them it's none of your damn business.

He has done no such thing. There is a scanned copy of a Birth Certificate showing tell tale signs of alteration posted through a third party so called respected independent Internet site whose purpose is to resolve political controversies.

They have no power or authority invested in them by the constitution or people to function in that role.

He could have just as easily had it delivered to the independent judiciary in one of a host of cases filed agaisnt him and quashed by lawyers or dropped like the political hot potatoe it is by judges who obviously would prefer for some reason not to have to rule on the controversy.

It's a very low threshhold he is trying to sustain on this issue and that is as alarming as a propensity amongst his supporters to advocate bypassing an independent judiciary.

I was married in Hawaii. I lived and worked in Los Angeles at the time and found myself delayed with the drudgeries and responsibilities of work while my bride to be waited on the Islands. When I finally arrived still pressed for time we went to get a marraige lisence from a Justice of the Peace.

She was a sweet old Hawaiian/Japanese mix living in the wilds past Hilo. We don't have the blood testing and want to get married tomorrow as I casually dropped a Grant on her home/office desk. She smiled and said not a problem.

Hawaians aren't particuarlly fond of main landers. 80% work for hospitality wages in far from enjoyable conditions. The natives are cognizant that just slightly over a 150 years ago their culture was wiped out by disease brought by American Missionaries. Huge portions of the Islands are owned by wealthy mainland fruit concerns who drove for state hood based on their own business concerns. Hawaii is one of the most beautiful spots on earth but one would be false in imagining it to run or share an idealogy or even love of the American way of life.

The reality is the next nearest state is over 2500 long miles of empty ocean away.

Neither the governor of Hawaii or Factcheck.org cary the weight or binding authority of an independent Federal Judiciary.

Why anyone on either side of this issue would not look for resolution from the very arm of government designed to resolve such issues speaks of something beyond arrogance and fear.

The best way to settle the issue in legally binding and authoritative ways would be to let the independent judiciary render it's own judgement.

If your ascertions are correct President Obama has nothing to loose and everything to gain.

reply to post by Leto

You don't understand.
These men and women have taken an oath, both internally and externally, to protect something more than just a "man" or a "place".
A huge part of military culture involves a lot of things that are dying out quickly.
Honor, Respect, Courage, Honesty, to name a few.

So far, President Obama, regardless of what the facts "may be", has skirted many issues that could possibly be of pivotal importance.
At the least it is a situation that no other president has ever created or continued in the past.

To a soldier that has pledged themselves to these ideals, seeing an individual bypass traditional avenues and requirements in order to take the office of President would seem nothing short of traitorous and blasphemous.

Regardless of whether you can relate to this way of thinking or not, it still stands as the reality of this situation for now. And, belittling them, or playing mind games with them will do no good to reverse the current trend.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

These men and women have taken an oath, both internally and externally, to protect something more than just a "man" or a "place".

A lot of people don't seem to understand the role of the citizen soldier in safegaurding the nation and it's constitution. It's more than just manners, protocols and virtues being forgotten, it is the history of this great nation and how the founders sought to protect and safegaurd their vision of freedom through a series of checks and balances that rely always on another stop gap layer.

I am not qualified or privy to the information that would let me say without a shadow of a doubt that constitutional requirements and standards have been met in regards to President Obama's eligibility.

I do believe the independent judiciary is though.

I think that they have cowardly shied away from this issue and I am thankful that there are still some members of the Military who understand they too have a role in ensuring the continuation of our Republic that goes beyond and is more important than simply following orders from above and marching off to war.

It is amazing the depth of forethought that the founders put in to structuring the Republic that even in a situation like this when three branches of the government have all seemingly broke down that there is still one speaking trying to alert us to the potential danger.

Potential is the key word and shame on President Obama for not utilizing the Judiciary appropriately to lend proper creedence to his claims.

www.factcheck.org...

Even Fox News has stopped talking about the birth certificate issue.

I mentioned that three soldiers isn't a trend but it seems you didn't see that.

reply to post by Leto

I mentioned that three soldiers isn't a trend but it seems you didn't see that.

It is two too many to be an isolated incident that's for sure.

The days and months ahead will tell if it's a trend or not.

I think three soldiers is three to many and it sure is a shame that President Obama hasn't seen fit to address this issue through a legitimate government insitution like the independent judiciary whose findings have legal standing unlike factcheck.org.

Some people do look to legitimate authority to speak on matters with authority.

This is a real question regarding President Obama's place of birth. Fact check org is not a real answer. Why on earth would a person want to head our government and choose not even to utilize in simple matters regarding citizens confidence and peace of mind?

reply to post by Leto


Maybe some time on other boards that cater to sevicemen and women who can post annonomously their opinions would show you that there is a trend, and its not JUST lower ranks. The officer corp who will be responsible for carrying out the orders of the COC are at odds with his pedigree. Its NOT an isolated opinion, I assure you!


Zindo