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Why so much symbolism/esoteric on secret societies/elite?

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posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 09:21 AM
I've been reading stuff for some time now regarding rich&powerful people, and secret societies.
I don't know what is true and what is not, but one thing I found consistent was the excessive (in my opinion, you'll see why shortly) amount of symbolism and esoteric imagery they use.
I can understand this kind of thing on groups like masonry since they apparently (I'm no mason nor know anyone who is) dwell more on a philosophical self development of sorts, aside for powerful connections they may or may not get for their own gain, and I'm positive they're founded or heavily influenced on metaphysics (please correct me if I'm mistaken, this is the impression you get when you do an unbiased analysis of what you read on the net). But I was reading the Geronimo topic, where Skull and Bones members allegedly stole Geronimo's remains for their own crypt. There is also another topic about some "exclusive elite club" where they had an owl statue, allegedly for ritualistic purposes.
It's not uncommon to find out some powerful people relies on numerolgy, kabbalah or astrology to plan their lives. It's also noticeable how many artists, after being famous gained interest in this things (i.e. John Lennon). So as you research these things you can't help but notice that the most powerful/connected people on the world rely heavily on symbolism, occultism, and I fail to understand how intelligent people, capable of running the world (like it or not) can be so adamant in their belief to steal the rests of an indian leader and bury it on their private crypt (why on earth having a crypt for your "country club" at first place is beyond my common sense). Even if this is not true, I am pretty sure this kind of events do take place. Are they just crazy? Are they bored and don't know what else to do? Do they really know something I don't about these things?
I can't understand why today on 21th century someone highly educated would confer a special, "paranormal" ability to a sign, statue, or number.
Also, do masons have this kind of perception on objects and/or symbols?

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 09:25 AM
reply to post by seb2882

because they are evil. And they dont care, they are power hungry money hungry drugged and drunken morons who sail through the world letting others do the work while they sit back, tell lies and skirt through life ruining the ltitle people as sacrifices to the false gods they kneel before vainly. They are to any sane analytical mind, a joke upon themselves worthy of the failure in life they bring for others. I hope to eternity they get that.

go visit these sites which may help you in sme way

those are my favs good luck!

[edit on 25-2-2009 by mastermind77]

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 11:05 AM
reply to post by seb2882

You've opened a whole can of worms, and I don't think you'll find any definitive answers to your questions.

If you want to try to work some of it out for yourself, however, I might suggest the following articles as starting points:
Start with the Certainty articles (reading the related articles on Agnosticism, Belief, Determinism, Doubt, Epistemology, Estimation, Fallibilism, Nihilism, Probability, Solipsism, and Uncertainty). Question what you know, how you know it, and then begin to speculate on what you don't know and how you might learn more about it. The fact is that nobody knows everything about anything. There's always more knowledge that can be gained, but sometimes the path to the knowledge isn't clear.

Skeptics require vigorous testing & proof before accepting anything; other people can accept things on faith, whether that faith is religiously, spiritually or metaphysically based, or just going on a hunch without proof. Such people accept "there is this which I cannot know, so I'll accept it as a given and move on to something that I CAN glean based on my own experiences and the world around me.

I think if you really looked, you'd find there are just as many people with beliefs other than your own in positions of power as not. Madonna my be into the Kabalah, and the lady who works at your local laundromat may have a particular gesture she uses to ward off the evil eye. It's how humans deal with that which they don't or can't know.

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 11:29 AM
reply to post by mastermind77

Hi, thanks for your post. While I believe there are some greedy, selfish people on the top who have their own agenda (like on everyday life happens), I don't know if they are just sadistically evil, or just selfish, non empathic individuals. I'll check out your links though

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 11:40 AM
reply to post by JoshNorton

Hi, thanks for your reply. I've read the Certainty articles, and yes, as you put it: the path to knowledge isn't always clear.
I too have researched this "path", studying Qabala, and other symbolic-driven texts, and I just don't get it, it probably isn't my path or maybe as I stated, they know something on these things that I don't. For instance, they usually put some real "power" or ability to an object or symbol, just like ancient times, but to put it bluntly: I'm pretty sure I'm not getting more enlightened, connected to a superior force, or improvement on my life, by recitating a mantra or revere a stone figure. But maybe I'm wrong? That's my original question, paraphrased.

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 04:07 PM

Originally posted by seb2882
I can't understand why today on 21th century someone highly educated would confer a special, "paranormal" ability to a sign, statue, or number.

The reason you don't understand is because there is a knowledge gap, but you probably already suspected as much. At any rate you noticed that a lot of influential people take to this stuff, and as a general rule the more influential the person, the more likely it is they practice this stuff because the knowledge itself is very empowering (especially over other people). You don't have to take my word for it. Also the knowledge is ancient, all the way back to the Egyptians and probably older. Their entire "alphabet" consisted of basically the same kind of symbolism Freemasons and etc. use and imo was far more advanced than, say, English, or any other Greco-Roman language, with our words consisting of arbitrary squiggly lines that have to be defined by a reference. The knowledge gap is pretty considerable, too. That's not to say that it's "hard" information to learn, but it's a LOT of information to learn and a lot of it seemingly contradicts "common sense" type things, and the places you will learn it are few and far between and intentionally riddled with nonsense. On top of that, if you just ask someone what the symbols "mean" or why they're used, they probably wouldn't be able to produce an answer that would be intelligible to you anyway. Not because you're stupid, but because our culture is so biased and materialistic, and especially our language, it's hard to convey novel ideas through mundane words, and all the "technical" words are meaningless to anyone who hasn't studied various philosophies.

The closest mainstream Western subject I can think of here to refer you is Carl Jung's theory of archetypes. Every symbol is a metaphor and they are used specifically by people "in the know" to evoke states of mind or make certain "vibes" concrete in a given setting. The relevant action or process related to these symbols is not some "magical" external effect, but an internal one. For people who don't recognize the symbols, the effect is subconscious and people generally ignore them or assume they're just some kind of "decoration" (which symbols are, in a way, but obviously they're also more than that).

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 06:52 PM
reply to post by bsbray11

I see your Jung and raise you a Lacan. Lacan believed that language wouldn't exist without desire. The only reason we have words is to describe the things that we don't have but want. (Of course, Lacan was building off of Freud, not Jung, but still...)

posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 01:40 PM
reply to post by JoshNorton

That would explain part of the reason various monks take vows of silence, wouldn't it?

Here's a little more on Jung's archetypes from Wikipedia:

The concept of psychological archetypes was advanced by the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, c. 1919. In Jung's psychological framework archetypes are innate, universal prototypes for ideas and may be used to interpret observations. [Emphasis added -- that part is important, especially for mass manipulation through media.] A group of memories and interpretations associated with an archetype is a complex, e.g. a mother complex associated with the mother archetype. Jung treated the archetypes as psychological organs, analogous to physical ones in that both are morphological constructs that arose through evolution. [4]

Jung outlined five main archetypes:

* The Self, the regulating center of the psyche and facilitator of individuation
* The Shadow, the opposite of the ego image, often containing qualities that the ego does not identify with but possesses nonetheless
* The Anima, the feminine image in a man's psyche; or:
* The Animus, the masculine image in a woman's psyche
* The Persona, how we present to the world, usually protects the Ego from negative images(acts like a mask)

Although the number of archetypes is limitless, there are a few particularly notable, recurring archetypal images:

* The Child
* The Hero
* The Great Mother
* The Wise old man
* The Trickster or Fox

Notice the phrase "may be used to interpret observations." Archetypes use our subconscious biases and stereotypes to "color" a situation so that people will tend to see things in relation to those select biases or stereotypes, especially if they are unconscious of it happening to them (and they will probably doubt or deny it happening). This is crucial to any kind of experience, any time, anywhere, whether the participants are aware of it or not. Everything we see and interpret is based on patterns of similar things we have seen before. A good "magician" knows how to take advantage of that to the extreme.

That's not to say everyone who studies this kind of stuff is out to manipulate you, but regardless of who you are or what you are trying to do, understanding what this really is on a deeper level leads you to much improved communication. That includes artistic communication through music, or through lyrics with a lot of "good imagery," because "good imagery" is just a good ability to summon up from you a certain specific way of perceiving your world using only a small number of words, tones, etc. So any artists would benefit as well, whether they realize they are on to the same things Carl Jung was or not (they probably just did a lot of drugs instead). Not to mention it's just plain enlightening. Instead of relying only on your words to communicate, you can set the whole stage in your favor, so to speak. You could even communicate verbally something contradictory to what your body language, tone of voice, etc., are "saying," and get exactly what you want out of somebody while they think they are really going against your wishes. Just as much communication, if not more, is done through subtle body movements or changes in your tone or voice, your setting, things like that, that are understood unconsciously (because body language is another set of innate ARCHETYPES that have commonalities between about any human being on this planet, responding to their emotions, emotions being ANOTHER set of archetypes that are universal).

On TV, on the news channels in particular, they pound all sorts of other archetypes to get your head "in the right mood" to receive all the total garbage, trash, nonsense they can throw at you. They beat patriotism to death when they have to, because they know how you have been conditioned (to love "your country" above all "other countries" and do irrational things in support of "it," simply because YOU live in "it"). Along those lines you will see plenty of red, white, and blue, because they always want you to be reminded that you are looking at some "real Americans" when you are watching the news, and so people will hesitate to criticize them when they go ad hom and start attacking someone for "hating America" (another popularized archetype) when that person starts saying things that they want you to learn to react negatively to.

If you know what you're watching, watching Fox News can be one of the more educational things you can do in regards to psychology, and especially subtle manipulation. Those guys are pros. Anyone familiar with the CIAs programs in the 50s, 60s, and beyond to infiltrate mass media will understand why this is the case. "Project Mockingbird" is the declassified name of one of the early forerunner programs. Their body language, tone of voice, the way they set up the studios visually, and their skill at guiding a "discussion" to go right where they want it, all come together for a symphony of mind-screwing.

posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 01:54 PM
I'm actually a musician. Composer too. I'm pretty rational though, because believing in "ethereal" things has harmed me in the past.
Nevertheless, I do feel a very strange "connection" when I write, as if it isn't myself who is doing it, and I'm sort of channeling something or someone. Sometimes I'm not even thinking or knowing what I'm writing until it's over.
But then again, I may be hallucinating, (I don't do drugs by the way) or there may be some physiological explanation.
Sometimes I think if this is indeed something else than my mind playing tricks on me, maybe it has to do with this "secrets". Maybe this is only a fraction of what someone else on the top knows. Or maybe not.

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