We Don't Need Money

Originally posted by pikypiky

Sounds like this bartering system would work, only we need to be able to access the internet in order to co-ordinate everyone's activities. But in order to do that we need electricity. Hmmm.

Ya...funny how some keep skipping that part. I did mention something about that lil problem when SHTF. But hey, I know how to make generators out of junk wire and a few magnets, so perhaps there is some trading that can take place with the OP...but I have no use for graphics or videos or a website in a survival situation.

So....OP, what do you have in exchange?


Cheers!!!!

reply to post by 12.21.12


I would not care about a label - I do not care about a label - this is because I have Jesus as my Saviour - and I know that annoys you - I don't care. But I can tell you now, this will not take off in this place, because people only care about money.

reply to post by spellbound


Well the internet is basically free speech on a global level. Right now I am telling the world that they dont need money to survive. I do not require anyone to quit their jobs. I do require those who wish for a better world to come forward and solicit their services, free of charge of course, but in exchange of service.

Originally posted by RFBurns

Originally posted by pikypiky

Sounds like this bartering system would work, only we need to be able to access the internet in order to co-ordinate everyone's activities. But in order to do that we need electricity. Hmmm.

Ya...funny how some keep skipping that part. I did mention something about that lil problem when SHTF. But hey, I know how to make generators out of junk wire and a few magnets, so perhaps there is some trading that can take place with the OP...but I have no use for graphics or videos or a website in a survival situation.

So....OP, what do you have in exchange?

Cheers!!!!

I can not even begin to explain openly on the internet. Basically I will have control over some things, like the exchange of natural resources.

Does that make sense? To overthrow a dictator you must take away it's resources.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by 12.21.12]

reply to post by 12.21.12


So which of my services...? See what I mean? None. Also, I am in NZ and no-one will want my services in America or anywhere.

Actually, I did work for a Harvard grad who was an editor based in Prague, and he needed a NZ English proofreader - that was so great until he left that job. He said that I was the best proofreader he had ever worked with. So please, if someone needs a proofreader/editor - ME!

Sorry, off topic.

reply to post by spellbound

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by 12.21.12

 

So which of my services...? See what I mean? None. Also, I am in NZ and no-one will want my services in America or anywhere.

Well you are in NZ but I wont discriminate. Most of my business is handled over the internet. So that is not a problem. Like I said before, you can still use money as you need, but you are trying to get away from it. So if you want to ship me a package, you will need money to send it and if you need a backrub, I would obviously need a plane ticket. The solution is no solution. We provide our communities with what we can, in exchange for service. This happens on the internet and we USE the common businesses that rely on money and we give them money, to contribute to a global need for a world without money.

Therefore, they only requirement on your part, is shipping and handling.

reply to post by 12.21.12


I have a pretty thorough list of services compiled into categories by a group of people over time that I could email u that may be of assistance but don't know how I could get your email address?

Maybe I could give mine to the exec. committee by calling the phone number and you could permit them to send me your email?

Have anyone heard about negative interest rate currency?! try google it, there is planty of info about it.

Basicaly, it could be used in this ATS comunity.
it works like that:

Let's soppose we create ATS currency wich is backed by gold. I do not know what is the best sum of gold to start of, but lets take 50 oz - means about 50 000 $. the gold will always be at ATS HQ, but ATS could issue a negative interest digital currency which could be used between the members of this comunity for services or products. so we do not need to use Fiat money, but still can have money as we use it today.

the negative interest means that if you have not used your ATS money by the end of the month , then 100 ATS dollars(I do not like dollars, but anyway) will be worth 98 or 97 ( I do not know what is the best rate).

The beauty of this that we all still can use money and at the same time contribute to ATS community as members and all the gold is still going to be in the vault, but the money expired.

this practice was well known in Egipt (before romans) and was used in Austria in 1932 .
The Wörgl experiment that was conducted from July 1932 to November 1933 is a classic example of the potential efficacy of local currencies. Wörgl is a small town in Austria with 4000 inhabitants that introduced a local scrip during the Great Depression. By 1932 unemployment in Wörgl had risen to 30%. The local government had amassed debts of 1.3 million Austrian schillings (AS) against cash reserves of 40,000 AS. Local construction and civic maintenance had come to a standstill. On the initiative of the town's mayor, Michael Unterguggenberger, the local government printed 32,000 in labor certificates which carried a negative 1% monthly interest rate and could be converted into schillings at 98% of face value. An equivalent amount in schillings was deposited in the local bank as cover for the certificates in case of mass redemption and earned interest for the government. The certificates circulated so rapidly, that only 12,000 were ever actually put into circulation. According to reports by the mayor and economists of the day who studied the experiment, the scrip was readily accepted by local merchants and the local population. It utilized the scrip to carry out 100,000 AS in public works projects involving construction and repair of roads, bridges, tanks, drainage systems, factories and buildings. The scrip was also accepted as legal tender for payment of local taxes. In the one year that the currency was in circulation, it circulated 13 times faster than the official shilling[citation needed] and served as a catalyst to the local economy. The heavy arrears in local tax collection declined dramatically. Local government revenue rose from 2,400 AS in 1931 to 20,400 in 1932. Unemployment was eliminated, while it remained very high throughout the rest of the country. No increase in prices was observed. Based on the dramatic success of the Wörgl experiment, several other communities introduced similar scrips.

In spite of the tangible benefits of the program, it met with stiff opposition from the regional socialist party and from the Austrian central bank, which opposed the local currency as an infringement on its powers over the currency. As a result the program was suspended, unemployment rose and the local economy soon degenerated to the level of other communities in the country.[1] [2]

So there is a solution .
please be free to sugest any additions

There is a 'currency' which can be used right now, and will hasten the transition called 'TRADE CREDITS'! It was designed to leverage excess or obsolete inventory into usable commodities, either financial, service, or product exchange... a computer regulated value system accessible to all and entirely voluntary. It has also been reviewed and accepted by FASB, the group officially responsible for the format and consistancy of financial accounting.
What is needed is NOT a complete revamping of global finances TODAY! What is needed is to insure the availability of necessities for yourselves and your community that can be started today. By developing a network of suppliers, tradesmen and services to accept Trade Credits as PARTIAL payment, the balance paid with dollars, the businesses determine how much absolute cash they require and how much they can risk opening this new market. If you can buy a gallon of gas (retail= $4/gal) at $3.75 + 25 TC (Trade Credits), and the gas station can buy potato chips beer, and salaries with partial TCs, everything becomes 'easier' (cheaper) to buy, and more of it happens, The local economy begins to recover.
Developing a control mechanism, providing security and accuracy, could utilize a password protected system similar to Paypal, but local. If the dollar inflates ridiculously, as is predicted, than the TC's become more attractive.
This concept requires substantially more development, but the structure has already been put into practice, albeit in limited quantity (people like dollars). Now is the perfect time for TC's.

Here you go guys, this will work at least for now

www.facebook.com...

It's just a facebook group I created.

If we all join we can surely get something going. Videos and pics are enabled so if you want to advertise your services feel free.

I was a carpenter for a couple years before starting my current job. I think the barter system is a great idea! RF Burns pointed out the biggest flaw in the plan though.

What we really need is a place to organize things locally.

A place where you can go, look up your state, look up your region, maybe by county, and then from there see who can provide the things you need locally, as well as post what you can provide locally.

For instance, I can make bread from scratch, pastries as well, was a bread baker and a pastry chef for a while.

I can also grow crops effectively, irrigation systems, hydroponics for growing in areas that don't have suitable growing conditions all year round.

I can repair most electronics, computers.

My girlfriend is a veterinarian, and has a decent amount of knowledge about natural remedies from plants. And surprisingly she has a decent amount of knowledge about automobiles.

Listing all this stuff is great, but this list is relatively useless until you find a way to break it down to people who can help each other locally.

My skills as a baker are no good to someone in texas, as i live 2000 miles away.

If you're good at web design, it wouldn't be that difficult to put a forum together, like ATS here, with the purpose of just that, every state has their own forum, moreso, every county in every state. And that's not to say that counties can't trade across lines, but its definitely easier to find people close to you by using counties.

I also know how to shoot a gun, a bow.

And I'm very familiar with carpentry as well, I did architecture for several years for my school and worked on a few real projects that got built.

So there's not much I can't do, but once again, this list of skills is relatively useless unless we have a way to organize locally.

reply to post by EarthShine

I have a pretty thorough list of services compiled into categories by a group of people over time that I could email u that may be of assistance but don't know how I could get your email address?

Maybe I could give mine to the exec. committee by calling the phone number and you could permit them to send me your email?

Yes, not a problem.

I could have a social networking site put together overnight. But I want to make sure to do it right. Having the right categories and bartering system worked out in a way that makes sense. Obviously here on ATS there is high demand for this. The site though would pay for itself through ad revenue. So like I said at first we will not be getting rid of money but just finding ways to operate around it.

reply to post by spellbound

I would not care about a label - I do not care about a label - this is because I have Jesus as my Saviour - and I know that annoys you - I don't care. But I can tell you now, this will not take off in this place, because people only care about money.

Well I am not here to tell you what to believe in or not.

But Jesus did say that we are provided with every herb yielding seed etc to use.

Therefore the earth is already provided us with a sound economical trading system. The introduction of currency took away from us God's gift of free will. Therefor we must slowly get rid of money to take it back, if we ever want our free will back that is.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by 12.21.12]

Originally posted by pikypiky
reply to post by 12.21.12

 

"Sounds like this bartering system would work, only we need to be able to access the internet in order to co-ordinate everyone's activities. But in order to do that we need electricity. Hmmm.

The barter system can , will ,and does work . This system is the only system that never really dies, it just gets put in a closet . You have been using thit system all along and you don't even realize it . example ; bake a birthday cake for a neighbors little one , said neighbor needs an onion a week later but can't run to the store. now, you want electricity ? There are people all around you that are trades people .
I myself have been a commercial / industrial electrician for over 30 years . get me a bicycle and about 2 dozen magnets an inch square,a couple of car batteries & i'll do the rest . I'll also need to have someone willing to ride that stationary bike . Know a personal trainer.....will work for food...need more electricity ? we collect more and bigger stuff .
Point is ; you need it ,it's there . Dont panic just ask & offer. Every one of us has something that some one else wants or needs .

Originally posted by 12.21.12
I can help you get what you need.

All we need is a good network.

I am good at many things including video, animation, web design, graphic design. What do you need? What can you give me in exchange? I can do this free of charge. All I need is a good bartering system/network.

So theres a site called ATS, for people like myself. Sounds like a good place to start. Lets get to work.

I compose music, draw, write. Um..can lift a ton of stuff too, am decently strong. If you or anyone needs any of this in exchange for your services, hit me up.

hmmm there are barter sties up, like barter.com, but if you could make one by region, zip code, etc that would be much more helpful!

Originally posted by vonholland
hmmm there are barter sties up, like barter.com, but if you could make one by region, zip code, etc that would be much more helpful!

I just checked barter.com...seems like one of those generic template/spam/ad sites..not a real site.

Yeh - some people are only interested in money - some will never wake up, but we have to start somewhere.

I am personally convinced that one person can be a change catalyst, a "transformer" in any situation, any organization. Such an individual is yeast that can leaven an entire loaf. It requires vision, initiative, patience, respect, persistence, courage, and faith to be a transforming leader.

Our intention creates our reality.

I have daydreamed about how life would be if we could do the things that we loved or that were important to us rather than going in to our "slave" jobs everyday. Hey now I appreciate the fact that I have a job!! But because of the way our system is set up we don't have time to focus enough on what's real and important [family, those who can't help themselves, the Earth, the animals, etc]. It's a rat race - get the kids ready and off to "school" - get to work on time - spend 9 - 10 hours away from the homes that we pay so much money for - rush home - help the kids, clean, cook, etc etc etc.

I really wish that I could just build myself a home from mud and sticks, somewhere safe of course , grow my food, and do whatever it is that I would do to barter in exchange for clothing and things (necessities) that I can't produce myself. Star and freakin' flagged!

[edit on 25-2-2009 by lel1111]