A member crying out: why am I contributing to ATS?

It is with a heavy heart I am posting this, as I really enjoy coming to this board, reading its topics and participating in the ongoing discussions.

Now I recently saw a great idea, shared by many, which was cut off short because of the T&C.

Thread Closed:

Please Review the Terms and Conditions of Use
www.abovetopsecret.com...
1 e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership at The Above Network, LLC site(s) for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not post, use the chat feature or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

You know what I am talking about, the topic got flagged way up.

I am not going to repeat the subject as it would mean this post would disappear as well.

Now I ask all of you, seriously, what is the point in coming here if this kind of strict policies exist? What is to point devoting time and creativity to a board which seems only interested in protecting their income stream?

Are they the enemy? I do not think so.
But we are being held in containment, whichever way you look at it...

During these times, in this day & age, please remind me why exactly I keep coming here in support of ATS because I am close to shutting down my browser an never visiting abovetopsecret.com EVER again.

And once I have decided that, it is final, I will say goodbye for good. No lurking no nothing. Yes I know the majority could not care less.

If only you could see how wrong it is to impose restrictions on such a great medium, be it for political correctness, profit, or whatever reason they give you.

The recent closing of the aforementioned thread is as far as I am willing to go. ATS is a mini dictatorship in disguise. At least this is how I see it.

Feel free to close, displace or whatever. You do what you do best, which is make money and contain the CT community. This is how I feel, now to take away the sting a little: I KNOW you are working hard to make this the best CT site on the Internet, and YES you do a great job, but for PETE's sake:

Give room to people who want real change and are prepared to do something about the current mess

I usually do not use flame characters, please check my history.

reply to post by MoonMine


you did agree to them when you signed up
and like all of us here have to follow them,
even if it means you disagree with some of them

[edit on 24-2-2009 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by MoonMine

 

you did agree to them when you signed up
and like all of us here have to follow them,
even if it means you disagree with some of them

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Wrong is still wrong.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by MoonMine]

they never said it wasn't a dictatorship, it is. at least they're open about it, advertise their beliefs and explain the decisions made, usually.

most of the other CT boards just push the owners personal beliefs and SFA else, ATS just censors a few clearly stated things.

[edit on 24/2/09 by pieman]

The reasons for our strict restrictions on recruitment of any type has nothing to do with revenue or selfishness of any kind... and everything to do with the simple fact that we take the privacy of our members very seriously.

We enjoy a wide range of users from all walks of life. Some are every-day people. Some are professionals enjoying anonymity. Some are researchers. Some are insiders. We ask very little (email address) to qualify for joining ATS, and protect as much as we can.

Long ago, we had one or two horrible events where someone was using ATS to harvest contact information through a seemingly harmless charity effort. Another time, a paid intelligence industry contractor concocted a scheme to collect member phone numbers.

Because of events such as these in our past, combined with the mind-set of our members that ranges from "paranoid" to "intensely private," we've adopted a no-tolerance policy toward recruitment of any type.

Imagine how simple it would be to pose as like-minded concerned individual and gather up names and addresses to organize a protest in some large city. Perhaps the motives are altruistic, perhaps not. We chose not to expose our members to the risk.

It's simple.

Since it was the tone of the thread that seemed to be the issue, why not approach the same issue in a different manner? As informative rather than some sort of call to action.

Recruitment is prohibited for a reason.

The owners do not want lawsuits or immature members deciding to create resistance groups to eliminate "the enemy."

ATS is a mini dictatorship in disguise

Of course. Sorry for being candid and blunt, this isn't a democracy. The owners financed, implemented and provide the means to create ATS - You didn't.

You agreed to the T&C. Clicked "I agree."

Don't bitch, it's not our fault you never read the T&C's

reply to post by MoonMine


MoonmMine I understand your frustration but please do keep this in mind.

If ATS allows the pandoras box of recruitment to be opened it would open the floodgates for all kinds of issues. There are some truly worthy causes out there to be sure, but there are also some horrific ones. It would put the staff in a position of having to distinguish between what is "good" or "bad." Imagine the accusations of censorship and preferential treatment that would be hurled around if some of those threads were kept and others were deleted. After all, one man's worthy cause may be another's ignonimity. It would have been pandemonium in here during the election season for example.

I know it is frustrating when something most members find worthy of attention comes up, but believe me, the alternative is much much worse.

And I urge you to reconsider leaving us, you are a valuable member and I have always enjoyed your posts.

For clarification, the New World Order section is why recruitment is prohibited and dealt with severely.

Lost count how many times, myself (the FSME) and the moderators have dealt with - well - childish idiots who planned assassinations and purchasing arms.

I'm sure Simon, Bill and Mark do not want an anti-terrorist investigation nor having the site shut down either.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Imagine how simple it would be to pose as like-minded concerned individual and gather up names and addresses to organize a protest in some large city. Perhaps the motives are altruistic, perhaps not. We chose not to expose our members to the risk.

Thank you for replying so quickly Bill

I am just... It is hard for me to understand why a call to a simple action is suppressed when no address gathering is involved.

I must mention the thread concerned for clarity...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Drugs... Sure. Militia... Ofcourse.

But the OP is not calling for an illegal activity is he/she?

It's simple.

No, it is not I'm afraid.

You agreed to the T&C when you registered. End of story.

There are many other places on the web where you can recruit people to your hearts content.

I'm sure they would be thrilled to have you.

No need to be angry.

I'm simply pointing out the obvious....

If you don't like the way things work at ATS....find another site to join.

The T&C are in place for a reason.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by MoonMine
I must mention the thread concerned for clarity...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Drugs... Sure. Militia... Ofcourse.

But the OP is not calling for an illegal activity is he/she?

No, but the OP is recruiting an activity that is not endorsed by the owners of Abovetopsecret.com

Read the T&C - activities not sponsored by the administration are prohibited.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
And I urge you to reconsider leaving us, you are a valuable member and I have always enjoyed your posts.

Same here. Thanks.

There is no need to get personal here. Please remain on topic.

As to the thread in question, there is also the manner in which it was written. Had it been phrased as a report/current event (eg this is what is happening) rather than imploring people to join in and follow suit the thread may likely have remained.

As several posters have mentioned, the recruitment clause in the T&C is there for a reason, whether to protect privacy or prevent ATS from indirectly supporting one side over another.

The intent is to create an as neutral discussion board as possible so that all sides may discuss in an as comfortale manner as possible.

Originally posted by MoonMine

 

 

Now you see, Memoryshock, that was very much on topic...

But I do not blame you, even moderators make mistakes.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
The intent is to create an as neutral discussion board as possible so that all sides may discuss in an as comfortale manner as possible.

Well, you can't.

You have to choose a side sooner or later.

Originally posted by MoonMine
Now I ask all of you, seriously, what is the point in coming here if this kind of strict policies exist? What is to point devoting time and creativity to a board which seems only interested in protecting their income stream?

We can look at this two ways:

1. ATS is a place for like-minded people to come and discuss just about anything (Paranormal, UFO's, Gov't Conspiracies, Economic Issues, etc... etc..)
2. ATS is a business

Does ATS make money? Sure. It has to. There is a group of people who run this website, and have funded it to make it work. This site, costs money to run. It's a huge site. (Have you listened to podcast with the 3 Amigos about the History of ATS? - It's a great listen and offers some perspective).

But we are being held in containment, whichever way you look at it...

I suppose you could look at it that way - but that's drawing a harsh edged line and not seeing the other side. On the larger picture, it makes sense. As SO pointed out its for our protection. And not just from other members who might have alternative motives (not suggesting that you did, or that you do - just that some members are not as honest as the rest of us), but from the people who "know" we are onto something.

It's fine and dandy that (most of us) are here for the same reason - to find the truth on whatever topics we happen to interested in. To brain storm, to bounce ideas off of each other, and to look at things from a different perspective. Now, what happens, if we all decide to start a revolution? A revolution that could expose, hinder, or affect someone's "plans?" The fact is, everything you or I say on ATS is available for anyone to read. With technology today, I'm sure that someone out there knows exactly where I am typing this message from, and what my name is, and where I live. Sure, that's possible right?

Daystar started a thread a while ago about "what could happen", if someone were to read your or my posts, and feel that we were a "threat". Well dear, that's exactly what we are. The free thinkers, the rebels - we are the threat; and not to ATS. We're a threat to the people we're trying to expose. We're a threat to the disinformation agents, and to the UFO knowers, and the people with "World Plans".

Everything that you or I post - can and will be linked back to us. This is an extreme way to look at it but: ATS is protecting you from the men in black suits and black suburbans, from knocking on your door, with a printout of your posts and saying the word "treason" in the same sentence as "you're name is _________ and you're being arrested under suspicion of".

I didn't read the thread - so I don't know what the subject was, or what was being brought to the table; but, if someone from ATS looked at your thread and said "I think we might have a potential issue here... it might be wise to close this thread as it may draw unnecessary attention" I wouldn't be upset about it - I'd be relieved to know that someone is watching my back. I like to think, that ATS has our best interests at heart when it comes to the Policies - but then again, maybe I'm naiive in placing my faith in a website.

During these times, in this day & age, please remind me why exactly I keep coming here in support of ATS because I am close to shutting down my browser an never visiting abovetopsecret.com EVER again.

Because something about this site, draws you here. Nothing is stopping you from logging out, closing your browser and never visiting ATS again: except you.

Give room to people who want real change and are prepared to do something about the current mess

The room for that, is not on this website. The T&C were clearly laid out when each and everyone of us joined. We clicked Agree, and we said yes. ATS is a free membership, and anyone can join and post. Perhaps, if we had to pay for our memberships and had a board of directors and held annual meetings to discuss the path of ATS - you would be able to voice this as a concern. But, ATS remains a free site. And whether or not you agree, that it is for your protection, the rules are set in place for a reason.

I hope you don't leave, on account of your frustration...

- Carrot



[edit on 2/24/2009 by CA_Orot]