The Whore of Babylon

Is it infinitely better to be the Bride of Christ, than the Whore of Babylon.

Beauty is within.

Ah got it, Nuns and Prostitutes. And God prefers the Nuns...

No, read through to the end of the Book of Revelations and then you'll get it. It's about a universal triumph of good over evil, and a return to the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life and the Water of Life (flow of life).

Ironically, or paradoxically, when we look closely at the symbols of the Vatican in Rome, including the Court of the Pinecone, the Obilesks, Status and the like, along with the history, and global influence, especially in terms of the ancient mysteries and groups who hold to them like the Masons - it is not the least bit out of the realm of concievable, to consider the Vatican, and the seat of power of the Pope in Rome, as the "Whore of Babylon" referenced in The Revelation.

And the fall of Babylon, is about a spiritual fall, in universal terms, where the "Bride of Christ" are the remnant of all true believers, and not neccessarily the fundamentalists or the evangelists either, but those married to Christ, which is about a spiritual union through Christ, between the spirit of man(kind) and of God.

These are issues about separation and union, and a universal controversy involving spiritual authority.

The vicar of Christ is not an emperor - for the greatest among us, will be the servant of all.

Best Regards,

OP


[edit on 26-2-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


This is the problem with dogma and a somewhat literal interpretation of that which was never intended to be interpreted in such a manner; people come so close, but their dogma seems to get in the way.

While it's true that Revelations deals with issues of separation and union, it's not about good vs. evil and it's not about any exoteric spiritual authority, and Babylon the Great is certainly not the Pope or the Vatican. Rather, it's about spirit vs. matter, and the triumph of spirit over the "beast" of matter.

IMO, Babylon the Great is Sophia Achamoth, the fallen and corrupted aspect of Sophia who, after her fall, became a prostitute (mother of harlots) and created the abominable demiurge (mother of abominations of the earth). "Mystery" stamped on her forehead only indicates a revelation, a revealing of hidden wisdom. The beast upon which she sits is the animal nature we all must conquer - specifically in the form of the body, hence her robes of purple (royalty) and scarlet (blood, life), symbolic of the crown and root chakras, or the sephiroth Kether (The Crown) and Malkuth (The Kingdom). The beast having "seven heads" and "ten horns" reinforces this, as it is symbolic of the Kabbalistic tree of life with its seven levels of ten sephiroth. Searching for exoteric whores and brides will leave you forever searching. The second coming and new Jerusalem aren't going to occur out there.

Originally posted by Nameless Hussy
IMO, Babylon the Great is Sophia Achamoth, the fallen and corrupted aspect of Sophia who, after her fall, became a prostitute (mother of harlots) and created the abominable demiurge (mother of abominations of the earth). "Mystery" stamped on her forehead only indicates a revelation, a revealing of hidden wisdom. The beast upon which she sits is the animal nature we all must conquer - specifically in the form of the body, hence her robes of purple (royalty) and scarlet (blood, life), symbolic of the crown and root chakras, or the sephiroth Kether (The Crown) and Malkuth (The Kingdom). The beast having "seven heads" and "ten horns" reinforces this, as it is symbolic of the Kabbalistic tree of life with its seven levels of ten sephiroth. Searching for exoteric whores and brides will leave you forever searching. The second coming and new Jerusalem aren't going to occur out there.

Revelation is a book that "unfolds" itself (much like the New Jerusalem cube) into a complete Kabbalistic cosmology. So this is right on--hell, your post was so good that I even had to quote it in a completely different thread.

reply to post by Eleleth


That is interesting, the idea of it "unfolding" itself that way... I actually don't know that much about Kabbalah; I'm merely learning. Can you elaborate further, because I find that concept fascinating.

Oh and thanks, BTW. Now I'm off to read that other thread...

Oslo - Frogner Kirke

















Oslo - Frogner Kirke by jaime.silva.
Would you like to comment?

jaime.silva's photostream

Originally posted by Nameless Hussy
reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

The beast having "seven heads" and "ten horns" reinforces this, as it is symbolic of the Kabbalistic tree of life with its seven levels of ten sephiroth. Searching for exoteric whores and brides will leave you forever searching. The second coming and new Jerusalem aren't going to occur out there.

Could you please elaborate on this, and show the seven levels of ten sephiroth in the Kabbalistic tree of life? Thank you. I know of the seven, but not the ten, don't know what you're referring to there.

Interesting post..

I would also like to hear more from you Eleleth, on what you believe to be the true identity and nature of the "Whore of Babylon".

I suspect that the soul, when living in a human body for any length of time (by adulthood) becomes a prostitute and prey to many thieves.

But there is still hope, within the womb of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, for a regeneration, and thus a hope for an overcoming.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by Nameless Hussy
reply to post by Eleleth

 

That is interesting, the idea of it "unfolding" itself that way... I actually don't know that much about Kabbalah; I'm merely learning. Can you elaborate further, because I find that concept fascinating.

Oh and thanks, BTW. Now I'm off to read that other thread...

Well, if you're familiar with Gnosticism, then a lot of the cosmology is immediately apparent when you read Revelation--so much so that it seems to be the obvious answer to the riddle. The book I mentioned, The Apocalypse Unsealed, attempts to go into a lot of it. But James Morgan Pryse often seems to have obfuscated many aspects of the book, possibly deliberately.

For instance: "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone." Now, this is the Philosopher's Stone. Pryse translates it as "voting-pebble," connecting it with the Mysteries of Mithras--a valid insight, but not one that elucidates the meaning behind it.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I would also like to hear more from you Eleleth, on what you believe to be the true identity and nature of the "Whore of Babylon".

It is difficult to describe, and I am not sure I can do it justice. The Mother was imagined as a cosmic Æther that pervaded all things. A sort of "womb" of dark, chaotic waters out of which everything in the world, both gods and men, took its shape. Perhaps analogous to Shakti in Hindu theology.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by Eleleth]

I think it has a dual exoteric and esoteric meaning.

The Whore was "drunk with the blood of the saints" to me describes mass murder, and the place described as a city surrounded by many waters and seven mountains, that's Rome. And the various heads and horns, those could represent seats of power and kingdoms, all of which are manifestations of the one beast through time, which again may point to the Vatican (Roman Empire resurrected in the RCC).

However at the end, with the invitation of the Spirit and the Bride of Christ to come and freely drink of the water of life, the place is a flowing river with two trees of life on either side. To me, this signifies the right and left hemispheres of the brain in synchrony and in harmony with Christ (two trees of life, and no tree of the knowledge of good and evil), and the water of life here refers I believe, to the flow of life, where flow of life unleashes a dynamic of negative entropy, or a fount of creation. If I am correct about this, then the regenerated and perfected (sanctified) man in unity and harmony with God (all good, all righteous), is himself the generative principal of continuous creation.

Whore of Babylon then could also be seen as a trap and a delusion who's intent it is to lock man into a materialist monist, isolate consciousness, which would be the opposite to the Bride of Christ. ie: Jerusalem from above = free, vs. Jerusalem from below = bondage.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

Could you please elaborate on this, and show the seven levels of ten sephiroth in the Kabbalistic tree of life? Thank you. I know of the seven, but not the ten, don't know what you're referring to there.

Sure... there are ten sephiroth, or enumerations of god, and the way they're mapped out on the tree of life, they fall into seven levels:
Kether
Chockmah & Binah
Chesed & Geburah
Tiphareth
Netzach & Hod
Yesod
Malkuth

If you google "Kabbalistic tree of life" you should get bunches of pictures of what it looks like.

reply to post by Eleleth

 

Well, if you're familiar with Gnosticism, then a lot of the cosmology is immediately apparent when you read Revelation--so much so that it seems to be the obvious answer to the riddle.

Yes, I am quite familiar with Gnosticism; Kabbalah, not so much. I was curious about the kabbalistic cosmology that may be present in Revelations, because with even my basic understanding of Kabbalah, I can see that it's there, alongside the gnostic cosmology which, like you say, is immediately apparent. Although I'm sure there's a lot of overlap – it seems everything in the western mystery tradition overlaps and touches on everything else...

reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

I think it has a dual exoteric and esoteric meaning.

The ancient Mysteries had different layers of meaning; exoteric interpretations were given to the uninitiated masses while the esoteric meaning was reserved for the initiated. I think the idea was something along the lines of “not casting pearls before swine.” With regard to Revelations, there probably is an exoteric layer present (though I am still dubious it involves Rome in any way despite what everyone believes), but for me I have to ask is that really the important layer to focus on? Does it ultimately mean anything, and will it get me where I want to be?

Also, in mythology and religious literature, blood is deeply symbolic – usually of life – and drunkenness is often used as a literary device to describe the state of the soul. What is the eucharist, after all... there is always a deeper meaning, I find.

Anyone want to take a swing at the two faces?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/b989f23b11f90ec4.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/3aab4f85e76edec1.jpg[/atsimg]

Internal aspects representing the darker nature, of animal, and of the queen. The smirk of the dark animal, is something I've been asking God to remove from me. I think it's the part of us which delights in evil, and as such, it is the opposite of love.

Originally posted by Nameless Hussy
The beast having "seven heads" and "ten horns" reinforces this, as it is symbolic of the Kabbalistic tree of life with its seven levels of ten sephiroth.

How is there a direct correlation between the heads and horns of the Beast of Revelations and the Qabalistic tree??? Just because you found some similar numbers don't make it so.

I could similarly propose that the ten horns of the Beast relate to the base 10 numeral system, or the 10 different burgers available at Hungry Jacks.

Dodgy...

Originally posted by Roark


How is there a direct correlation between the heads and horns of the Beast of Revelations and the Qabalistic tree???

Aleister Crowley goes into great detail about this in his "The Book of Thoth". According to Crowley, the seven heads represent the seven lower Sephiroth, which appear to be detached from the Supernals. The relative link, therefore, is the Whore herself, who represents Binah, and rides the Beast of Matter.

It was also Crowley's position that John or whoever wrote the Book of Revelation was an Adeptus Minor only, and didn't fully understand the formula of a Magister Templi, which is why the Beast is portrayed in the book as evil.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Masonic Light]

I really thought there might actually be a person or two on this board who might be serious.

Oh well. I figure it out myself.

letsrollforums.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/6f6a32197b3bce2f.jpg[/atsimg]

Okay. Olive Tree. Represents Peace usually. The dove could be a couple of things - a reference to the Greek spun myth of Semirimis being fed as an infant by doves or turning into a dove at the end of her reign. Her name coming from a supposed name meaning something like beauty from the sea/daughter of the sea. Could be a symbol of love. Probably both knowing people who love symbols.

The fish being a reference to mankind, and perhaps the Son of God as man. Nimrod was sometimes assoicated with the symbol of a fish. Peace Love Mankind.



[edit on 2009/3/4 by Aeons]

[edit on 2009/3/4 by Aeons]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/fc78b3d93f3d2e6c.jpg[/atsimg]

The turreted crown? Representing her construction of the works of Babylon, the fortifications, and perhaps her other works like leveling the roads, building bridges. The crown of civilization perhaps? First known Monarch to wear such a crown...I have nothing to back up that claim. Interesting that modern European monarchs still wear a similar crown.

reply to post by OmegaPoint

Smash it? Jeeeeeeeeeze .. don't insist that someone commit a crime like that. BTW - the Queen of Babylon and the Whore of Babylon are two different things.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
P.S. Ever wonder why the Roman Catholic Priest offers 10 heil Mary's in forgivness?

That makes NO SENSE whatsoever. :shk:

You have a severe lack of knowledge about the Catholic faith.
Stop reading Jack Chick tracts and instead read the Catechism
to find out what the Catholics believe.