when did all the terrotism started ?

We've had Arab terrorism for decades. Remember the highjackings? Remember when we used to call TWA "Travelling With Arabs"?

The creation of Israel was a mistake? Why would you call the only free state in that region a mistake? Why not say the creation of the other states in that region a mistake? Israel has the right to exist, just as much as any other in the area.

In fact the whole area was created by the west. It used to be Mesopotamia until the Brits led by Churchill went into it and created artificial boundaries in the 1920's. These boundaries grouped nomadic tribes together that didn't get on and this is one of the main reasons for the many disputes that have happened thoughout the century. So its not just isreal that was created, but the whole of the middle east, and we all wonder why they're not happy with what our countries have done to them!!??

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
We've had Arab terrorism for decades. Remember the highjackings? Remember when we used to call TWA "Travelling With Arabs"?

The creation of Israel was a mistake? Why would you call the only free state in that region a mistake? Why not say the creation of the other states in that region a mistake? Israel has the right to exist, just as much as any other in the area.

let me correct myself, it was a huge mistake not to create Israel and Palestinian state at the same time, as for Israel... what does it matter that they used to live in that land thousands of years ago ? its like indians coming over to your house and kicking you out because they were in america thousands of years ago, hope you can see my point. As for hijacking, did you had at that time problem with terrorist groups like you have now ? what changed the terrorists from taking plane here and now to killing people on daily basis ?

And where did the Iraq problem come from?
Oh the West installing Saddam as a strong dicator to keep the evil Iran at bay.

This meddling in borders by the superpowers causes more problems than it does solve.

And as usual, the main problems of today were created by the main world powers of yesterday and the many problems of tomorrow will be the results of decisions and actions of the world powers of today.

(See Iraq, Israel, Yugoslavia - Eastern Europe, Middle East, South America, Africa, etc.)

Actually, the Israelis had, and have, just as much right as any other of the states there. The Jewish people have no less right as the others in that area.

Again, the "Palestinian" people are just as much an artificially created bunch as the boundary lines. They weren't called "Palestinians" until it was politically convenient for leverage against the Israelis on the international stage. The people that were not Jews yet lived in Israel were not mistreated, but were "Israelis" regardless of their ethnicity. Whether they stood with the Arab world out of fear or because they were with the Arab world with the heart, they still relinquished their place there and stood against Israel.
Again, to make it clear, there was no need in creating a "Palestine" as these who are called "Palestinians" were not called as such, whereas that word was used to identify the people in that area generally speaking, specifically though, the Jews. In that light, when Israel was created, a place for those referred to as Palestinians was in fact created.

Again, look at the many Arab states with their huge land area, and ask yourself why they do not help their bretheren and ask yourself in an objective way, why is it that the Israelis, who are afforded the smallest of space and was attacked in their infnacy for even having that little space, is expected to give more. Keeping in mind that the Arab world has made mention on numerous occasion they prefer that the Israelis lose what they have and have to swim the sea for survival, it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

If you want to know whay Islam hates people, look back to the crusades. Ever since then, they have hated everything to do with western Europe ideals.

The reason they hate the US is that we are an extension of that. We are a mostly Christian and our values of freedom for all directly conflict with their religion (at least the way they practice it).

As for when the first attack was, I remember reading a post somewhere on this site that was in the early 1900's. It was a story about a general who captured some Islamic terrorists and they were found guilty and put to death. Well before he had the firing squad shoot them, he covered them and the bullets to be used in (if I remember right) pigs blood and #. These animals are considered extremely filthy to them, and they believe that they will not be excepted into heaven

So the general has all these men shot except for 1, which he let go to tell all his friends about. After that there was like a 60 year gap before the next Islamic attack on US soil. Perhaps we should deal with those captured in this way.

That's not funny. Its that kind of religious intolerance and ridicule that causes hatred. Not all muslims are terrorists.

Perhaps when the US public was actively funding the IRA against the British. The British should have captured these christian sponsers and made them steal knifes then murder their parents. Or perhaps not, its sick.

Why do u specifically associate christianity with freedom ? Take a look at the history of Church and u'll notice quite a difference.

Freedom is a ambigious concept. George Bush has made fighting for freedom his main moral objective. Yet he said "There should be limits to freedom." Hypocrisy.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by mrsteve]

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by mrsteve]

We are a mostly Christian and our values of freedom for all directly conflict with their religion

Sorry, Christianity... freedom? I think these two values are mutually exclusive. Over the centuries, Christianity has shown itself to be one of the most burtal oppressive religions in the history of the world. Millions of 'heretics' whose values were of peace and kindness died at the hands of christians in the Albisengian crusade, to name but a single event. Thousands died, burning at the stake across the world, accused of being witches in the name of christianity. The inquisition, the first example of a secret police terrorised thousands.

As well, saying that all muslims are terrorists is like saying all christains are nazis, although the second statement is probably more accurate.

Originally posted by magecarin
let me correct myself, it was a huge mistake not to create Israel and Palestinian state at the same time, as for Israel...

Jordan is a Palestinian state, and was created just before Israel. The UN partition plan called for a second Palestinian state, but the Arab world rejected it and chose war instead.

Originally posted by magecarin
what does it matter that they used to live in that land thousands of years ago ? its like indians coming over to your house and kicking you out because they were in america thousands of years ago, hope you can see my point.

If an American Indian wanted to buy my house, I would consider his offer. If he wanted to buy my neighbors house, or just by land nearby and build his own house, I would not object in any way.

I do see your point. In creating an image of someone being kicked out of a house, you want to deligitimize the creation of Israel. The image is not historically accurate.

Well, I did a search on google about "origins of terrorism" and this is the first link that came up. (Appart from Amazon.com books for sell)

"Because so much of the world outside the West has for historical reasons fallen behind in the evolution of their childrearing modes, the resulting vast differences between national personality types has recently turned into a global battle of terrorism against liberal Western values. In order to understand this new battle, it would be useful to know what makes a terrorist�what developmental life histories they share that can help us see why they want to kill "American infidels" and themselves�so we can apply our efforts to removing the sources of their violence and preventing terrorism in the future. The roots of current terrorist attacks lie, I believe, not in this or that American foreign policy error but in the extremely abusive families of the terrorists. Children who grow up to be Islamic terrorists are products of a misogynist fundamentalist system that often segregates the family into two separate areas: the men's area and the woman's area, where the children are brought up and which the father rarely visits.1 Even in countries like Saudi Arabia today, women by law cannot mix with unrelated men, and public places still have separate women's areas in restaurants and work places, because, as one Muslim sociologist put it bluntly: "In our society there is no relationship of friendship between a man and a woman."2 Families that produce the most terrorists are the most violently misogynist; in Afghanistan, for instance, girls cannot attend schools and women who try to hold jobs or who seem to "walk with pride" are shot.3

Young girls are treated abominably in most fundamentalist families. When a boy is born, the family rejoices; when a girl is born, the whole family mourns.4 The girl's sexuality is so hated that when she is five or so the women grab her, pin her down, and chop off her clitoris and often her labia with a razor blade or piece of glass, ignoring her agony and screams for help, because, they say, her clitoris is "dirty," "ugly," "poisonous," "can cause a voracious appetite for promiscuous sex," and "might render men impotent."5 The area is then often sewed up to prevent intercourse, leaving only a tiny hole for urination. The genital mutilation is excruciatingly painful. Up to a third die from infections, mutilated women must "shuffle slowly and painfully" and usually are unable to orgasm.6 Over 130 million genitally mutilated women are estimated to live today in Islamic nations, from Somali, Nigeria and Sudan to Egypt, Ethiopia, and Pakistan. A recent survey of Egyptian girls and women, for instance, showed 97 percent of uneducated families and 66 percent of educated families still practicing female genital mutilation.7 Although some areas have mostly given up the practice, in others�like Sudan and Uganda�it is increasing, with 90% of the women surveyed saying they planned to circumcise all of their daughters.8

The mutilation is not required by the Qu�an; Mohammad, in fact, said girls should be treated even better than boys.9 Yet the women have inflicted upon their daughters for millennia the horrors done to them, re-enacting the abuse men inflict on them as they mutilate their daughters while joyfully chanting songs such as this:


"We used to be friends, but today I am the master, for I am a man. Look�I have the knife in my hand�Your clitoris, I will cut it off and throw it away for today I am a man."10

As the girls grow up in these fundamentalist families, they are usually treated as though they were polluted beings, veiled, and sometimes gang-raped when men outside the family wish to settle scores with men in her family.11 Studies such as a recent survey of Palestinian students show that the sexual abuse of girls is far higher in Islamic societies than elsewhere, with a large majority of all girls reporting that they had been sexually molested as children.12 Even marriage can be considered rape, since the family often chooses the partner and the girl is as young as eight.13 The girl is often blamed for her rape, since it is assumed that "those who don't ask to be raped will never be raped."14 Wife-beating is common and divorce by wives rare�in fact, women have been killed by their families simply because they asked for a divorce.15 It is no wonder that Physicians for Human Rights found, for instance, that "97 percent of Afghan women they surveyed suffered from severe depression."16"

Excerpts taken from.
www.psychohistory.com...

I think the problem with terrorism is not only as what is stated above, but because of the radical nature of Islam. I should say Islamic extremism.



[Edited on 15-4-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
We've had Arab terrorism for decades. Remember the highjackings? Remember when we used to call TWA "Travelling With Arabs"?

The creation of Israel was a mistake? Why would you call the only free state in that region a mistake? Why not say the creation of the other states in that region a mistake? Israel has the right to exist, just as much as any other in the area.

They could of put the displaced Jews Anywhere in the world, Israel isn�t that big. In fact Ethiopia was about to except them at one point. But I guess the Jews thought this was just a little to close to their roots. So they decided to �take back the land that God promised them in the Torah/Bible�. I mean come on what the hell did they think was going to happen!!! Anytime people are being occupied by another force or country those people that are being occupied fight back by with what whatever they got. Stick and stones against guns and tanks. They can�t do anything else so they blow themselves up!!!

It�s like saying that life is so #ed up and you�re your so poor and hungry that you would rather die than live. But who want to die for no reason, without any �purpose�. So why not vent that pain against those who they believe are causing their pain. Basically they�re saying �I might as well take some of them with me�. Hey, I don�t mean to sound cynical but that�s the way of the beast. The Indians in America used to kill �Civilians�. Why ? Because the colonists were killing the buffalo for game and not for food, they were claiming land that wasn�t theirs, and they were reneging on their treaties. I�m not trying to justify what the Indians, the Palestinians, the Jew, the U.S or what the Iraqis do in times of War. I just understand the logic of both sides of the conflict. But understanding doesn�t matter. It�s the one�s who win that write the history books.

Originally posted by Melchizedek
In fact the whole area was created by the west. It used to be Mesopotamia until the Brits led by Churchill went into it and created artificial boundaries in the 1920's. These boundaries grouped nomadic tribes together that didn't get on and this is one of the main reasons for the many disputes that have happened thoughout the century. So its not just isreal that was created, but the whole of the middle east, and we all wonder why they're not happy with what our countries have done to them!!??

This in the same thing that happend in Africa. And people wonder why this part of the world is so displaced.

Edit: Muaddib I was reading your post and I just thought about something. For the longest it seems that woman thought history have been abused and suppressed by men. Women in the U.S are just now recently seeing their "freedom". I think men still carry this "hatred" for woman�s sexuality to this day. That is why Hue Hefner is looked at the way he is and why Lil� Kim is looked at the way she is. Hell you can even see the effect that is had during the super bowl!!!! Who got the worse of it Janet or Justin? A woman who is head strong and has a strong sex drive is looked at as a bitch or a slut( the opposite goes for a man). I think that at one point woman did control thing but once men figured out that we were physically stinger than them we just took over!!! But that�s just a theory. No one will really knows.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by DaTruth]

terrorism existed even before civilzation. sometimes, a caveman would sneak over to another group of enemy cavemen and attack them with rocks. also, sabotage was common in early civilizations too. it's nothing new. only the way its being conducted

terrorism in the past 300 years or so is to be blamed on British Colonization....that's the root and start of it all.....nuff said.