Why do nice guys finish last?

Why is it that this is so?

I'm not hating on women or anything, nor am I saying that all guys are saints or anything to that effect... But I've lived my life the way I was raised, respect women and be nice... not let them walk all over me nice but you know... being a nice guy. It seems that it always goes the same way.

At first all is good but in the end they kick me to the curb... Im not the best looking guy out there, but if that was the issue I would expect things to not even get off the ground. I see guys that are complete jerks have all the luck in the world... But us nice guys, no way not a chance.

I'm not saying every woman in the world should be interested in me, thats ridiculous but the ones that show interest and then for no reason, at least not an explained reason, BOOM to the curb I go.

There's a few nice guys in the world but man! We are getting worn down... at least I am... Not saying I'm gonna give up, thats not an option... ya gotta keep on keepin on ya know. :w:

Getting kicked to the curb hurts ya know... and I'm not talking about just breaking up or going your own ways and what not I understand that kind of thing happens... but more time than not its a rude, swift kick in the behind that leaves your head spinning, and your ribs broke from the slamming into the curb... and thats if your lucky and you don't get used for whatever you have before they kick you. :bnghd:

I know life ain't fair and all that but when time after time this happens it just seems crazy.

There are a couple of fatal mistakes I believe most nice guys make. One of them is that typical "nice guys" fail to make their sexual nature known to a woman. So at worst, the woman does not even have any idea if this man has any sexual interest in her. Woman want to know that their romantic and sexual feelings are going to be reciprocated.

This is a big one, so pay attention. I believe "nice guys" usually operate from a point of view that puts them in a lower social status than the women, hence giving her all their power. In other words, they are operating from a position where they believe the woman has higher status than them. A big no-no.

Women do not - let me repeat that - DO NOT go for men who they deem as having lower status than them. Sucking up to her, giving her compliments every two seconds, being needy and feeling the urge to call her every five minutes are all signs that you care about this one woman way too much. Getting serious way too soon can and WILL scare women away.

YOU are the prize, and don't ever forget it.

How do I know all this you ask? Well because I used to be that stereotypical nice guy. Don't get me wrong, I still am "nice."

One of the biggest dating conundrums is that people think it's the "nice boy" versus the "bad boy." It is not. It's between weak guys and strong guys.

[edit on 2/9/2009 by thehumbleone]

In my opinion the whole nice guys finish last is not as it seems.

A lot of the time people in reality refer nice guys to = unconfident, shy guys. I find that funny, because not all these so called nice guys are really nice...and not all these bad boys are bad.

So in simple terms, to NOT be called the nice guy, you gotta get more confident and start being confident in yourself, that really shows to women that you've got your act together, and your somebody fun to be around, somebody who can get things done.

Being confident doesn't really mean being a prick. There are limits. That's why in reality these so called nice guys who start acting like pricks to get women don't get far lol.

In my opinion, it's about acting confident, being positive ( fun sense of humour), being random, risky!(men love routines, but sometimes routines bore women) These are the main attractions of the so called bad boys, in reality you don't have to be a bad boy. (except for the women who really do like bad boys and jerks who treat them like crap)

So these jerks you see with women have these qualities, but of course these women are in deep sh*t and not so lucky, because their other qualities are not so good, the ones that makes them a jerk haha.

So basically my point is, this whole nice guy thing, doesn't really mean "nice" guy. It's just what people like to describe boring, unconfident people, who may be nice or not.

So basically, the key is to be relaxed, confident and fun. This may be seem impossible to some people, but life is all about trying to make things possible!

So nice guys can get the women!

I'm not all knowing thou, so I may be talking rubish haha.

But your right, some real nice guys do get problems with women, but women are the ones missing out and the funny thing is, they KNOW it. lol


Peace.


[edit on 9-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by thehumbleone

This is a big one, so pay attention. I believe "nice guys" usually operate from a point of view that puts them in a lower social status than the women, hence giving her all their power. In other words, they are operating from a position where they believe the woman has higher status than them. A big no-no.

This is another problem. Even if the guy is confident, he might subconciously see her as somebody way more worthy than himself, the prize, the queen of his life, the only one who can satisfy his heart and desires.

This comes out in body language and the way he acts. And women pick up on this. It may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the woman.

But usually it put's off some women.

It's sad because the man just can't figure out what the hell he's doing wrong!




[edit on 9-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_


This comes out in body language and the way he acts. And women pick up on this. It may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the woman.

But usually it put's off some women.

It's sad because the man just can't figure out what the hell he's doing wrong!

haha yeah exactly. Texan, do you think you could further elaborate on what exactly it is you are doing when you are interacting with these women?

Originally posted by XTexan


I'm not saying every woman in the world should be interested in me, thats ridiculous but the ones that show interest and then for no reason, at least not an explained reason, BOOM to the curb I go.

Your probably not doing anything wrong. I'm guessing this, because men also do this to women! And usually it's their own personal feelings that cause them to do it. The "it's not you, it's me" deal.

I've had to listen to women tell me stories like this a lot,(women love telling stories ) the man is interested in them, very nice, fun guy. Then the man decides to end it, for no real apparent reason...leaving the woman confused and sad.

Must be a human thing, male and female alike.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by thehumbleone


haha yeah exactly. Texan, do you think you could further elaborate on what exactly it is you are doing when you are interacting with these women?

Yeah maybe more info, I'm just doing random guess work and theories here lol.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by thehumbleone


haha yeah exactly. Texan, do you think you could further elaborate on what exactly it is you are doing when you are interacting with these women?

Yeah maybe more info, I'm just doing random guess work and theories here lol.

Well, its not a confidence issue, as I am a confident guy. I have a lot going for me as far as a good job and I try to represent myself well. And as far as sex goes I deffinately show interest in that department as well and I try not to go overboard, as far as I know I havent been dropped for poor performance or lack of interest, lol.

I try not to be more involved than the woman is or act as though I'm on a lower status than they are, though in the past, as I'm sure we all have, gone a little overboard and driven women away. But in situations like that I recognize what I've done and try to take note for future reference. Some of my worst experiences have been with women that I saw as "out of my league" and as ya'll said there was a complete loss of respect.

I try not to overcomplement and what not, but I do tell a woman that she looks nice and what not when we go out or whatever. And i try to do nice things when I can... not showering them with gifts or anything like that, but you know do nice things for them on occasion.

Maybe its something subconcious like ya'll said... I do sometimes have issues with calling to much, I'll admit that.

On a typical "date" we might meet up and go to dinner, i tell them they look nice, or their new hair is cool or whatever complement seems like a good idea at the time. Ask them how their days been, listen for an hour while they answer that, lol... chat, make jokes,and usually have a good time ya know.

Most of my stupid mistakes are in my past, never to be repeated, ya know like stupid coments and stuff so its not like I make some assinine statement about their mom or something crazy like that, but at least then I would know what I did...

Sad but true my friend. It's actually quite simple. It's human nature to want what you can't have. If you are nice to them you become boring because they don't have to work for your attention. Guy's who treat them like dirt are a challenge and deep down most girls have self esteem issues and they don't think they deserve better. I could go into this in great depth but I'll leave you to ponder that.

Recommending, from a female perspective: Limit it to one compliment per date, maaaaaaybe two (one when you see her, the second maybe over dinner) and otherwise, talk about some shared interest, display your wit, even engage her in a discussion of politics, but seriously, don't make it too much about her.

Think of a date as a chance to put your desirability on display. Not overtly, but covertly--show her you're intelligent, funny, sense of humor is very important.

Confidence is a big part of it, but... pull her chair out or hold the door for her, like, from behind, casually--polite, but not making a big deal of it like you're deferring to her or something.

Just my two cents!

[edit on 9-2-2009 by quitebored]

reply to post by quitebored


Thanks for your input, always good to get a ladies perspective... My problems don't normally come up on the first few dates... I tend to have good luck at getting the ball rolling and getting a relationship started...

The problems tend to pop up after a few months or so...

I'll deffinately take into account your advice though, thanks

I'd have to agree with thehumbleone on all counts.

As for what you're doing....

What about these girls?

Do they have a history of going with bad guys who treat them badly?

Some women fool themselves into thinking they want a nice guy, then quickly go back to a guy who treats them like dirt...(don't ask me why...for me, was always that they had a history or maybe felt they didn't deserve to be treated well..., and I never did quite get it)...

Luckily, I'm now married to my soulmate who likes me for the nice guy I strive to be...

I can only tell you what worked for me years ago.
I came to realize women loves a--holes just as much as men love b-tches.
It takes a little bit of acting on your part but if you let your feelings be known, just a little, and amplify that tenfold, women tend to do a double take.

What I mean is, if something does not quite sit right with you, rather that accept it with a "what the heck" type attitude, voice your opinion with a little bit of frustration and anger, even though you may not be angry at all-this is where acting comes in. That gets the ball rollin' and if she says or does something that you don't agree with, you can lash out at her too.
I'm not teling you to smack her so don't get me wrong, just make your feelings known. If it causes an argument you can always call her back and apologize. Women seem to cause fights intentionally too but it's just because they love making up.

Reason why I say it worked for me is because once I started doing this, by little black book started getting bigger.
Of course I wasn't being myself during this time but I learned a lot about myself and about women. It exposed me to the mind games women play.

I then came to realize that women, depending on their maturity level and age, tend to get attracted to the bad boy image. I don't know why but it probably has to do with the built in motherly instinct to nurture and right a wrong.
They see a nice guy and think, "this guy is nice and doesn't need any help".

They then see an a--hole and say "this is a little boy gone bad that needs some motherly love", and away she goes trying to find out what seems to be bothering him and to see what she can do to comfort him.

You must get this concept into your head...ATTRACTION.

Women are not always attracted to the things that are best for them. (Same goes for guys.)

Women are ATTRACTED to somebody confident, desireable, romantic, dangerous, good looking, influential,well dressed,popular, confident, confident. These are attraction traits.

Women NEED somebody nice, reliable, thoughtful, decent.
These things are what they want AFTER they have decided that they want a relationship.

They usually only want a relationship with somebody that they are already attracted to.

1 attraction
2 relationship
3 nice guy

Keep them in order and you will be ok.

Originally posted by XTexan
I tend to have good luck at getting the ball rolling and getting a relationship started...

The problems tend to pop up after a few months or so...

Do you fall into a rut? A lot of guys - nice guys too - get comfortable in a relationship and kind of let it stagnate at about the two-month mark.

Another possibility is that for some reason you're not seen as "marriage material" - this depends a lot on how old you are, how old the women you date are, etc.

I can't speak for other women, but I know that for me, I'm much quicker at deciding whether or not I want to try out a relationship than men are. But the key is that I'm just trying it out to begin with. After a couple months I might decide whether or not I want it to go further; but by this point the man already assumes that it's a done deal.

It's all very complicated. Keep in mind that you may be better off without them

Another Female Perspective:

As thehumbleone said:

One of them is that typical "nice guys" fail to make their sexual nature known to a woman. So at worst, the woman does not even have any idea if this man has any sexual interest in her.

This is true - from my experience anyway. I've always been one of those girls who hung out with the boys (I was in Army Cadets, mostly male dominated), and as a result I've got a lot of guy friends. I've also lost guy friends... do you see the word I've repeated? Friends. Most girls, see the nice guy as a "friend".

I had a friend in my Philosophy class last semester, we walked to class, hung out and chatted, and I assumed we were just friends. I had not expressed interest, nor had I detected any. Friends. Until one day - he started talking to me about relationship issues, and I was giving him advice - when I realized he was talking about me. I was so thrown for a loop because I had NOT expected that from him. Long story short - we are just friends, and he is really nice guy.

Now, I'm not, not-attracted to him because he is a nice guy. There is simply nothing there, we had one thing in common (our Phil Class) and really none of the same interests, I felt nothing.

It's not his fault, and it's not my fault - we just simply didn't click.

There are girls who are attracted to jerks - I'll never understand but its true. One of my very best friends is a girl who is attracted to jerks. Stick her in a room full of nice guys, and she'll find the only jerk in the room and pair up with him. She is a nice girl - who doesn't know that she can do better. So, why is she able to pick out the only jerk in the room? Because something about him, attracts her.

Why am i attracted to nice guys? Because I saw the way my father treated my mother growing up, and that is what I look for.

I don't know why they break up with you after a few dates or months or whatever, but for me personally, if I sense even the slightest bit of "This doesn't feel right" I walk away. I don't need to waste your time, and you don't need to waste mine. I give the straight up "I'm sorry I don't think this is going to work." Yes, I've broken up with nice guys - but they weren't "my" nice guy. They are a nice guy, for someone else who is still searching for hers.

The way I see it, we're all just puzzle pieces, mixed up in a box. And it takes pulling them out one by one, to find the one that fits. There might be some that kind of fit, and some that you WANT to fit. But just as you're looking for a nice girl, us nice girls are looking for OUR nice guy. YOU might be a nice guy - but you might not be HER nice guy. Don't give up , and don't think that turning into a jerk will land you a girl - it won't. Just be yourself, take your time, and enjoy the dating - there is someone out there who is going to love you just the way you are and you'll find her. Nice guys win too - just give it time.


- Carrot

I cant speak for all women, but I married a nice guy. I married him because I love him and I love him BECAUSE he is a nice guy.

I can't stand guys who treat other people (not just women) like dirt. There are too many jerks in the world anyway...why would I want to spend the rest of my life with one.

Dont "lessen" yourself by trying to change. One day you will find someone who is right for you and who appreciates you for who you are.





[edit on 10/2/2009 by eternal_vigilance]

from observations that i have made spending at least 10 years on the club scene the one thing i have noticed is that women always go for the Alpha male in the group. that may take many shapes and forms but the one quality all Alpha's have is confidence. now you can fake it but eventually they will see through it, it must be a biological drive.

personally i would rather a hot intelligent understanding confident women. but i havent seen any. there probably having a picnic with unicorns and all the other mythological creatures. lol

no seriously there are as few of those women as there are genuine confident honest good looking guys.

until then just play the field and before you know it you will be with Mrs right.

reply to post by badgerprints


Badgerprints gave some pretty awsome advice there. Often women are attracted by pretty arrogant, cocky guys. that's because a woman first wants a guy to be self confident and in charge of himself.

Maybe you need to learn be comfortable being yourself and having an opinion irrespective of whether a woman agrees (short of being offensive, cruel, or insulting). I'd also say just stick to being cocky and funny. Don't beg their attention.

Thanks for all the good advice that has been posted on here guys, please keep it coming I'm taking notes from all of you... and all of you are making very good points and giving me some things to think about and work on...