Disturbing trend here on ATS is exactly what the Secrecy Agenda would want

I'll be short and sweet here. When I first came to ATS, I was very impressed with the site. This was back in Augest of 2008. Now, however, I feel like nothing here could be taken seriously by any part of the mainstream media, no matter how well founded or fact based the article, and it's because of fellow members, NOT disinfo agents. You all are doing the work for them. When i registered at ATS, it was not considered funny or cute to try and dissolve someone's thread with silly, condecending comments, or worse, hate-filled comments to the efect of "Gosh, you are a paranoid freak, this is NOT a conspiracy, not EVERYthing must be a conspiracy you know," or even "what's wrong with you? this is obviously..." (insert whatever drivel you like)
In my personal case, i had a thread where i questioned the validity of the Hudson River Plane Crash official story, simply asking if it was odd that it received almost 36 hours of continuous coverage, why they were having "difficulty reaching" the black box, and what have you. I received many lines of "I'm so sorry that you didn't get your daily dose of blood and carnage you expected, what a conspiracy!" and some even worse than that, and one such comment was from a mod no less. What happened to our site truthers? Anyone who is skeptic is fine, they help keep us in check, a balance if you will. But now i see that skeptics are no longer required o back up what they say with anything more than insults and childish comments. It was greatly frowned upon at one time to post things like this, but now it is becoming the rule instead of the exception. The last time I looked, this IS a conspiracy website, so why are we being ridiculed for raising questions? This used to be kept in check better by the mods, but now i see that they are becoming just as bad.
Does anyone else feel like new rules need to be made for the way one posts? I like humor, sometimes i will put a funny remark in someone's post, but not spiteful in nature. There is a difference. I think some changes should be made. Imagine you had a great, valid post with really good information in it, and you wanted the nation to see it, would you be taken seriously when they read replies like these in your thread?
I just don't like it, people wishing to post things like this need another website, and let ATS be a site to deny ignorance, not diisplay and support it.
thanks to all the members (skeptics and believers alike) who adhere to the unofficial but important code of conduct that made this site a good place.
publius

Toughen up a bit,if I get a bad response I stop reading their post and Click on the "Ignore this user (info) ignore" button at the bottom under the users name.
When I refer people to ATS I mention to "watch it in there,you can get slapped around like a rage doll in there" if you post crap.

Zelong.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


ii Kind of understand your Thought on this subject my friend but it is a public sight. to have a good one it would have to work like a club in which you chek out this one and invite the member to a second one in which you keep the cream of the crop. in other words use this site as a try out.

reply to post by Zelong

but you misunderstand. It doesn't hurt my feelings or anything like that, it is couter productive to helping other people think and question. My reasons for posting on ATS are almost never personal, it is out of a deep desire to have others see in between the lines and understand better when they are being fed a line of bull. Call me a saint or whatever, but I am honestly here to learn form others and to help others. I couldn't care less for ATS points, or if I'm heralded or scolded for exposing an idea, i am really here to deny ignorance. Simple as that. Some are here to nurture it, and that is what upsets me. It used to be different. USed to be if a person came into someone's thread spewing ignorant un-founded childish comments, the skeptics and believers alike would give that member what he had coming, both sides agreed to an unspoken rule that respect shuld be given no matter your stance on an opinion. That is what made ATS different than other forums where such conduct was rampant and encouraged. It is what made ATS a desirable place for discussion for someone who wanted to get away from ignorance.



[edit on 29-1-2009 by Enigma Publius]

reply to post by eightpoundworld


yes i know. I understand that it will happen form time to time of course. But like i said, it used to not be so bad. The mods would warn people for such conduct and even penalize them for it, but what kept it in check better than anything was fellow members who would come to the aid of the one being scolded even if they didn't agree with the OP; so much has changed in six months, it's like a different site almost.

reply to post by Enigma Publius

Anyone who is skeptic is fine, they help keep us in check, a balance if you will. But now i see that skeptics are no longer required o back up what they say with anything more than insults and childish comments.

No, unfortunately these so called skeptics and pseudo-skeptics need no reason for an input of ridicule whenever they please.

I doubt that every member who claims to be a skeptic here on ATS is actually who they say they are.

A word of advice; ATS is not your typical forum.

reply to post by Enigma Publius


Before I start - please use paragraphs / breaks - large text blocks are very difficult to read.

I was one of those who answered you in the fashion in which you describe. I don't think you're telling the whole truth about your thread - you're making it sound way too innocent from what it actually was - hence why it attracted a certain backlash.

It depends on the subject. If I created a thread bashing homosexual males I would get a right roasting. On the other hand, create a thread on Celtic mythology as I did last week and receive nothing but politeness and well formed, educated posts.

Most people come on here to learn and share experiences but mostly to debate - and that means both positive and negative so the OP has to take the rough with the smooth.

If the rebuke you had upset you - try a different subject. Anything. But if you build it - they will come

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I believe what is happening is that some of us who have been here a long time are seeing, in my humble opinion, more and more completely ridiculous (apparently) obvious made up drivel in the guise of "conspiracy".
I lurked on this board for years and finally joined in early 2007. While I may be what some would call a "debunker" or "one of them" or whatever infantile comment that has been thrown out lately, I used to have some respect for the members who would intelligently debate about such things as aliens and they respected my dis-belief in alien visitation. Sure I can admit that it is possible that life exists out there, but it it highly unlikely that there is intelligent life visiting us. Years ago these things were politely debated.
Lately there has been a huge influx of people who insist that you believe whatever they claim without any reasonable proof and get very angry at the slightest hint of skepticism. Personally I find that it is somewhat of a waste of my time to argue with these people as they have a cult like following of their beliefs, no matter how foolish they sound. Add in the weekly prediction of doom and gloom and Planet X that has been 2 years away for over 5 years and you get some of us longer term members tired of the whole childish pay-attention-to-me-and-my-made-up-theory junk and get a little snippy.
I have not actually seen your thread, so please don't take this as an attack on you personally, there is just too many people ruled by fear who see conspiracy in everything. Even when it is basically proven to be just a balloon in the sky or just a new jail and not a FEMA camp or just a president mis-speaking or whatever, they think that the skeptical person is a sheep, when we just don't believe every single fanasy that is pumped into this site lately.
So I kind of see the problem lately with ATS as 180 degrees opposite of what you see the problem as. And, yes I do feel that there should be rules about posting enforced - such as a little bit of proof or somewhat believable hearsay anyway when one makes outrageous claims. Why are people allowed to make these silly claims without a shred of evidence, but I'm a brainless skeptic that can't see outside of the box if I question what is baselessly written? To me, that is the problem lately and why I rarely post.
At least there is the once or twice a month post that is thought provoking and forces me to question things I believe. That is why I still check in.

reply to post by vonspurter




[edit on 013131p://444 by Grandma]

reply to post by vonspurter

thanks for the honest reply. You provided a perfect example of what a member SHOULD do when they do not agree with the OP. You provided a few examples, you didn't resort to name calling, and I can tell that you were trying to honestly debate something in an intelligent way. This was unlike your earlier response to the thread in question when you said that i would be happier if people had died in the plane crash. that was just an assumption, a wrong one, and i don't see how it contributed in any way.
If I was being less than 100% about the thread in question, it was not in any intentional way. Looking back I think the only thing about that thread that was possibly irresponsible enough to merit some of the very childish replies was the use of the phrase "false flag" when it wasn't necessarily applicable to the situation i was talking about. That was an honest mistake, I now know the meaning of that phrase is not as broad as i thought it was, so that was my fault. But a lot of the responses were not in any way conducive to a discussion, it was, like I said, mostly people putting words in m mouth suggesting that I am not happy unless I get blood and gore in my news, and others telling me I needed help for my paranoid condition. Was that really doing anything for the discussion? Did they have any basis for saying such things? At least with my "totaly paranoid" idea that i stated, i listed examples that led me to believe the way I did, that is what I expect from anyone wishing to debate something.
Am I wrong? As for the issue of the plane, I posted that long before anyone else was saying anything of a conspiracy type nature, and now look, it's all over the internet, so obviously even if I was totally wrong, enough things were odd about the event to get others thinking along the same lines. I still believe that we were not given the real story behind it. But anyway, that's off topic, i'm sorry.
As for paragraphs, i did make an efort in this one just for you, but i'll admit that when it comes to rammer, i am not very skilled at all, nor do i really care to be. In the future i'll probably still not capatilize my i's and probably still not indent, i don't even know if i'm putting indents in the right places anyway, so i don't see the point. I realize that some will base my inteligence off of that, but that doesn't bother me. It is still a misconception that in my OP i implied that i take any personal offence to things like that...i don't. But it bothers me when someone can just say "you are wrong, you need help..." blah blah blah without giving me some reasons of their own. It should be frowned upon in any intelligent discussion. How could one not agree with that?



[edit on 29-1-2009 by Enigma Publius]

reply to post by tallcool1

i totally understand what you are saying. I should have also said that it would obviously go both ways. I am skeptic and believer, i soppose what i was trying to say is that there is room for both you and I here, as it should be. But those who will say "i'm right, you're wrong" only not that nice on EITHER side should just go somewhere else. I don't wish to do anything oter than find the truth of the matter on all things. So often that will put me on a skeptic side as well. Good post, thanks for contributing.

I try to keep aliens out of non-alien sub-forums, but having met one close up and personal, I tend to reference it more than it I should. This rankles those who haven't met any of these critters, call them what you want. So, I'm subject to quite a bit of scoffing, and deservedly so: I'm not on an exclusive 'aliens & ufos' site. Even on those, people have serious trouble posting on the subject.

As to other, general ideas being presented, I find that there is a wealth of knoweldge available here on ATS, some of it verifiable, most of it, not. I am posting because it seems too many are here just to cast aspersions on any thread subject matter, regardless of validity or harmless curiosity (inquiring). I think this should be carefully moderated.

Being a public forum, you can't expect too much from it. Many of the lurkers won't ever actually post because of this unrestrained response (needless heckling, however well concealed). Others choose to leave, because there is little perceptible evolvement of concepts. In fact, most devolve to mere states of inanity.

Example: check through some of the "moon" mystery threads. Observe the political threads (almost senseless debate). Knowledge is not built in this manner.

Once, I presented a topic on a physics forum, and finally the mods locked the thread because there was so much contention of given 'science theories' (hypotheses), that it was obvious that no validations were forthcoming. Not discussion of or ehancement of an idea, merely endless contention. (It was regarding the Moons gravity.)

You cannot achieve a respectable level of increased understanding in new fields of inquiry through an antagonistic medium: unfortunate, but so. Nor is ATS really about that, though it says it is. That is sheer nonsense.

An idea must be worked over, and worked over, then presented.

The Big Bang, General Theory of Relativity, Black Holes and Superstring Theory, etc, are still being heatedly debated...

These have much modern science behind them, but still doubts and contention persist: as it should (until I finish my Verifiable Unified Field Theory, of course).

i think what your seeing is ATS has become very mainstream,,, which i guess is a natural process,, path to follow

like the uneutered cat
6 babies=36 babies =1296 babies and so on

so now your at the point of saturation

and i think b4 you did a bunch of research and studying and came acrtoss ATS and joined

today you google 1 thing and run across ATS

i read and serarched a lot b4 joining ats and had some knowledge and then joined

today i think you can join and just post,,,no research needed or done

it seems like many good posters and such have disappeared

is there a new site where some have migrated????

but hey taake what you need and leave the rest

your not the first to start a thread like this nor the last

its always been that way here,there is a large element that exists here to cover up the truth,either by discrediting,creating false stories,alternative explanations and so on.

many people have noticed,i came across this guy all the ways back in 2003!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a mod who was demodded in his words for asking to many questions,

Yes, I remain, demodded though I am. Now we know that there are some taboo subjects here at ats... Deny Ignorance? No comment.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well I guess Im banned for asking too many uncomfortable questions. Was nice knowing everyone. Enjoy the board and remember, asking questions is dangerous.... Wish I could give out my email so I could continue to discuss things with all of you, but I doubt that admin would allow it since I might give out dangerous material...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

They seem to have deleted this thread... Perhaps I was a bit closer to the truth than they were comfortable with?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


and what was the response of the disinfo ai attack team that infests this site...

Originally posted by DaRAGE I'd have to say DragonRider is a resident spook. He seems to have all the time in the world on his hands. Makes a million posts, knows everyone and everything and what's going on at this site. Has a million points from his time here and the amount of info he gets back/topics started and talk revolved. DR could very well be a resident spook imho.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

to accuse him of being the spook!,that sums it all up,the disinfo teams band together and always speak as one.
the mod of the secret societies forum noticed it...take a look at the disclaimer...ohh wait its been removed!,it said theres posting gangs here who seem to attack as one with the same message against certain people and subjects.
mentioned it a few days ago as evidence of future ai infiltration here and it get removed!....sums it all up again....we got moles....artificially intelligent moles!

[edit on 29-1-2009 by welivefortheson]