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The Death of James V. Forrestal: Suicide or did he become one of the first victims of the cover-up?

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posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:29 PM
In the early hours of May 22nd 1949 the first U.S. Secretary of Defense James Vincent Forrestal fell to his death from the 16th floor window of Bethesda Naval hospital, where he was treated for “depression”.

An official U.S. Navy Medical Review Board convened on his death, after examining all doctors and witnesses who were in the vicinity, could not establish the reason for Forrestal's fall (i.e. suicide, homicide, accident), and although an autopsy was performed, the autopsy report has never been made public. The peculiar circumstances of Forrestal's death, and the U.S. government's withholding of the complete report of the review board until 2004 has led to much speculation and controversy.

In 2004 David Martin obtained the official report, that came to be known as the Willcutts report, through the Freedom of Information Act. When I read the report, combined with the evidence that was already available, a disturbing picture emerged.

There are just so many unanswered questions surrounding this case. I will try to address most of them and will update when/if this thread develops. The input and opinions of the knowledgeable members here at ATS is greatly appreciated.

Ok lets get started.

The primary sources that I have used are of course the official Willcutts report, three books that were written about Forrestal after his death and the website of David Martin who has written a number of articles on James Forrestal. The sources are listed at the bottom of my final post.

For the members that never heard of Forrestal I will provide a quick introduction.

Forrestal entered Dartmouth College in 1911, but transferred to Princeton University the following year. At the latter school, he served as an editor for The Daily Princetonian and was voted by the senior class as "Most Likely to Succeed", but left just prior to completing work on a degree.

After college, Forrestal went to work as a bond salesman for William A. Read and Company (also known as Dillon, Read & Co.). When World War I broke out, he enlisted in the Navy and ultimately became a Naval Aviator, training with the Royal Flying Corps in Canada. During the final year of the war, Forrestal spent much of his time in Washington, D.C., at the office of Naval Operations, while completing his flight training. He eventually reached the rank of Lieutenant Junior Grade.

Following the war, Forrestal served as a publicist for the Democratic Party committee in Dutchess County, New York helping politicians from the area win elections at both the state and national level. One of those individuals aided by his work was a neighbor, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Forrestal then returned to William A. Read and Company, earning a partnership, in 1923, before eventually becoming president of the company in 1937.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed Forrestal as an administrative assistant on June 22, 1940, then nominated him as Under Secretary of the Navy six weeks later. As Under-Secretary, Forrestal proved highly effective at mobilizing domestic industrial production for the war effort. He became Secretary of the Navy on May 19, 1944, following the death of his immediate supervisor Frank Knox from a heart attack. Forrestal led the Navy through the closing year of the war and the painful early years of demobilization that followed. As Secretary, Forrestal introduced a policy of racial integration in the Navy.

He was named as the nation's first Secretary of Defense in 1947 by President Harry S. Truman. Forrestal continued to advocate for complete racial integration of the services as Secretary of Defense, a policy that was eventually implemented in 1949.

By 1948, President Harry Truman had approved military budgets billions of dollars below what the services were requesting, putting Forrestal in the middle of a fierce tug-of-war between the President and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Forrestal was considered a highly effective administrator but even he could not possibly carry out the tasks given to him by Truman. Essentially Truman gave him an impossible job.

In 1949 Truman became angered over Forrestal's continued opposition to his defense economization policies and abruptly asked him to resign. Forrestal who was already under heavy pressure and exhausted from work did not take his dismissal lightly.

On March 28, 1949 Forrestal officially left office and a public ceremony was arranged on his behalf.

What followed after the ceremony remains mysterious. "There is something I would like to talk to you about," Symington told Forrestal, and accompanied him privately during the ride back to the Pentagon. What Symington said is not known, but Forrestal emerged from the ride deeply upset, even traumatized, upon arrival at his office.

What did Symington say or do to James Forrestal? Later Symington denied the event took place but unfortunately for him Forrestal’s personal assistant testified years later that the event indeed did take place.

Forrestal was taken home, but within a day the Air Force flew him to Hobe Sound, Florida, home of Robert Lovett (a future Secretary of Defense). Forrestal’s first words were "Bob, they’re after me." He met with Dr. William Menninger, of the Menninger Foundation, and a consultant to the Surgeon General of the Army. Captain George N. Raines, chief psychologist at the U.S. Naval Hospital at Bethesda, soon arrived.

Robert Lovett later testified that the above words were indeed Forrestal’s first words upon meeting him. He thought Forrestal was becoming paranoid for no reason. But was he?

It was “agreed” that Forrestal needed phychiatric treatment and that the best place was Bethesda Naval Hospital. Forrestal was a civilian at the time so why was he taken there and on who’s authority?

Years after Forrestals death it became clear who decided Bethesda was the best place for his treatment. George N. Raines was the psychiatrist in charge of Forrestal at Bethesda. His later assistant had the following to say in 1984.

In 1984, Dr. Robert P. Nenno, a young assistant to Dr. Raines from 1952 to 1959, disclosed that Raines had been instructed by “the people downtown” to put Forrestal in the VIP suite on the sixteenth floor of the hospital. Dr. Nenno emphasized that Raines’s disclosure to him was entirely ethical, but that “he did speak to me because we were close friends.”

(Continued in next post)

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

Mod edit: spell check done with Member's OK

[edit on 1/28/2009 by Badge01]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:30 PM
The following 1968 excerpt of an interview by the Truman Library’s Jerry Hess of Harry Truman’s appointments secretary for his full time as President, Matthew J. Connelly, confirms the statement made by Robert P. Nenno.

CONNELLY: He thought that the same things were happening, that people were annoying him, and he felt he was under surveillance down there, he felt that he was being watched, and in other words, he was being personally persecuted. So as a result of that, we had him very quietly removed to Bethesda hospital in Washington.

What a nice gesture by the “people downtown”. Dr. Raines testified before the Willcutts committee that he initially phoned Bethesda on the 2nd of April and asked for two rooms to be prepared.

I called the hospital from Hobe Sound on the morning of the second and asked that they have two rooms available, one on the officers psychiatric section and one in the tower. I felt he could be handled in the tower satisfactorily, povided certain security measures were taken.

Please note that the officers psychiatric section is on the ground floor and is the section were suicidal patients are placed for obvious reasons. According to the later assistant of Dr. Raines “the people downtown” decided the 16th floor was best for James Forrestal who was according to Dr. Raines very suicidal. But before the Willcutts committee Dr. Raines stated the reason he was placed there was because he could be handled satisfactorily in the tower. An interesting contradiction and not the last by a long shot as will become clear later.

Upon arrival at Bethesda Naval Hospital James Forrestal declared he didn’t expect to leave the hospital alive. He proved himself right seven weeks later one way or the other.

A physical and neurological examination of Forrestal was done and this yielded some interesting results. Dr. Raines has the following to say about this.

The physical examination was done by doctor Lang immediately prior admission which showed nothing remarkable except some elevation of blood pressure. The neurological examination was negative except for small, fixed pupils which, so far as I know, had no significance.

No significance? When reading this part I immediately thought of drug use. Forrestal had lost several pounds, complained of insomnia, was anxious and overreacted to the medication Dr. Raines prescribed him such as sleeping pills. These things could be indications of drug use, voluntarily or of course involuntarily. He was reported going into a strange daze after speaking privately with Symington just before his admission to Bethesda, which the latter conveniently denied.

The people “downtown” meanwhile were busy themselves.

Meanwhile, Forrestal’s personal diaries, consisting of fifteen looseleaf binders totaling 3,000 pages, were removed from his former office and brought to the White House, where they remained for the next year. The White House later claimed that Forrestal had requested for Truman to take custody of the diaries. Such a claim, frankly, is preposterous. Throughout 1948, Forrestal had become increasingly alienated from Truman. Prior to the election, he had even met privately with leading Republicans to help insure his future with the Dewey administration. Truman then abruptly fired him in favor of Johnson, a man plainly not qualified for the job. Forrestal’s diaries contained sensitive information that Truman’s people needed to know about. Presumably they had ample time to review them during the seven weeks of Forrestal’s hospitalization.

Normally a patient who is admitted is allowed to see the people close to him, of course at his request and with agreement from the Doctors. But not James Forrestal.

Throughout Forrestal’s hospitalization, access to him was severely restricted. One-time visitors were his wife, his two sons, Sidney Souers (a former DCI, NSC executive secretary, and alleged MJ-12 member), Louis Johnson, Truman, and Congressman Lyndon Johnson. Menninger visited twice. Although Forrestal was presumably glad to see his sons, he was not close to any of these visitors, and had a political antipathy to his government colleagues who came by. However, Forrestal was not permitted to see the several people he continually asked to see: his brother, a friend, and two priests.
Henry Forrestal, for example, repeatedly tried to see his brother but was refused until he threatened to tell the newspapers and sue the hospital. Ultimately, he was able to visit his brother four times. Henry told Raines and the hospital’s commandant, Captain B. W. Hogan, that his brother wanted to talk with a close friend, Monsignor Maurice Sheehy. Hogan replied that he was aware of this, but still would not allow it.
Indeed, Sheehy had tried seven times to see Forrestal. Each time he was told his timing was "not opportune." (What kind of hospital policy denies a patient the right to see a priest, minister, or rabbi?) Sheehan, a former Navy chaplain, argued several times with Raines, and had the impression that Raines was acting under orders. Another priest, Father Paul McNally of Georgetown University, was also barred from seeing Forrestal, as was at least one other (unnamed) friend of the former Secretary.

So now it becomes more and more clear that James Forrestal was essentially a prisoner at Bethesda and was being denied access to the people he wanted to see most. Dr. Raines said the following during his testimony before the Willcutts committee.

We kept visitors out in part at his own request because he didn’t feel able to tolerate them.

This statement is odd as Forrestal repeatedly asked to see a priest and his brother, which was denied time and time again. Only after his brother threatened to tell the press and sue the hospital he was granted permission to visit. Then again he was visited by Truman, Souers, Johnson, Menninger and congressman Johnson. But he could tolerate them without a problem?

This brings us to the mental condition of James Forrestal. Was he really severely depressed and most importantly, suicidal?

(Continued in next post)

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

mod edit: spell check w/Member's ok.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by Badge01]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:34 PM
There were five doctors assigned to Forrestal during his stay at Bethesda. The lead doctor was Raines, his second in command was Dr. Smith. The other two were doctors Hightower and Deen. The fifth doctor was in charge during the time Dr. Raines was away from Bethesda (May 18 to May 22). His name was Dr. Nardini. All five doctors testified before the Willcutts committee. What they had to say was interesting to say the least.

First lets look at the condition of James Forrestal, as related by the doctors who took care of him.

Dr. Raines:

"Mister Forrestal was obviously quite severely depressed"

"As late as the twenty-ninth of April the patient was still quite suicidal."

"I knew in the recovery period which seemed at hand the danger of suicide was rather great."

"The family was at all times kept fully advised as to the patient’s progress but I didn’t warn them continuously of the suicidal threat nor did I mention it to anyone except my direct colleague, Doctor Smith."

"The family should not be troubled with or worried by the continual suicidal threat."

"The patient was still quite suicidal."

Dr. Hightower

"I had no actual factual evidence of any sort which would lead me to be able to say specifically that suicidal thoughts or ideas were present."

Dr. Deen

I believe, and the man was obviously depressed and any time a man is depressed there is always a consideration of suicide to be kept in mind.

Dr. Smith:

"In as much as he was a man who suffered with a depression and an interpretation of his own predicament through depressive eyes the matter of his recovery or non-recovery was discussed, even including self-destruction. He, at all times, denied any preoccupation with such thoughts."

"At no time did I ever hear him express any uncertainty that he would not recover nor did I ever hear him express any threat to destroy himself.

Anybody see what’s so interesting? Only Dr. Raines claims that Forrestal was very suicidal. The others say that while suicide must be considered with depressed patients they had no evidence whatsoever that James Forrestal wanted to kill himself. I only provided short parts of the testimonies but if you take the time to read the whole Willcutts report it appears Dr. Raines goes out of his way to stress that Forrestal could commit suicide at any time, yet the other doctors do not share his opinion.

Maybe James Forrestal attempted suicide before that lead Dr. Raines to this conclusion?

Dr. Raines:

Q: Did Mister Forrestal make any attempt at suicide while he was under your care?
A: None whatsoever.

Dr. Nardini:

Q: Did Mister Forrestal make any attempt at suicide while he was under your care?
A: No, sir, non that I was ever informed of, became aware of, or suspected.

So how did these men got the notion Forrestal was suicidal. Well Dr. Raines stated Forrestal mentioned suicide on many occasions to him privately. But strangely he is the only one of all the doctors to essentially state this. His hugely contradicting statements, his eagerness to pass it of as a suicide right from the beginning (he mentions suicide multiple times in his testimony to the Willcutts committee), makes my BS meter go through the roof with this guy. He even testified a second time voluntarily to stress the fact that Forrestal was extremely suicidal.

His second in command (Dr. Smith) gives a testimony that indicates that not much was wrong with Forrestal, in direct contradiction to Dr. Raines. Remember Raines was hand picked by the surgeon general to “care" for Forrestal.

Dr. Smith:

He was a man who not only was mentally alert but continued to maintain an active interest in all current matters on a level compatible with his broad public service and wide experience. These conversations ran a gamut from a discussion of matters of purely local interest to various philosophies and ruminations that touched on the behaviour patterns of all people under various circumstances of stress and his astuteness and acumen were such that his comments and discourses were pregnant with comprehensive significance. I was more often the listener then the speaker.

I can go on but if you read the whole testimony of Dr. Smith, who worked with Forrestal from the time he was admitted, it paints the picture of a man not severely depressed and suicidal at all.

All the doctors agreed that James Forrestal was making a good recovery and would be out of the hospital soon. His security measures were loosened and he was even permitted to walk on the whole 16th floor. The only room that had secured windows was his own. He could have committed suicide at any time by jumping out of the window but did not. He was allowed to shave with a razorblade but didn’t slit his wrists. His room had blinds from which he could easily have hung himself at any time. He did not.

On May 21st, the last day of his life, he seemed to be doing ok. All the people who saw him that day confirmed this before the Willcutts committee. This was to be his last day in the hospital as his brother called in stating he would pick James up on May 22nd. Only hours before his brother arrived James Forrestal was dead.

Dr. Deen said:

When I came up to go to bed some time before eleven I asked him again if he was interested in going to the television and he said “no, not tonight”, but he made it sound like not tonight but a night in the near future.

Three hours later James Forrestal was dead.

Another interesting thing is that the watch on the night of his death was a new guy. He never met Forrestal and had only started serving at Bethesda one week before James Forrestal arrived there. According to the watch he checked on Forrestal at 01:45 and he was apparently sleeping. The watch went down the hall and when he got back 3-5 minutes later, Forrestal was not in his room.

At that exact time his body was found on a ledge below, only dressed in pajamas and with a bathrobe cord tied tightly around his neck.

From here on the story gets even more disturbing. The next day the newspapers all stated James Forrestal committed suicide, even before an investigation was launched. The crime scene photographers were not permitted to enter his room until it was “cleaned”. The crime scene photographs can be found here:

(continued in next post)

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

mod edit: spell check w/Member's ok.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by Badge01]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:41 PM
The official report remained classified until 2004 when it was obtained through the FOIA by David Martin. The autopsy report has not been released to this day, as are the photos of the body. They all conveniently “went missing”. The cord around his neck was never mentioned in the media at the time. The official report could not establish what happened to him and left it at that. James Forrestal fell from the window and it was not the fault of the personnel at Bethesda. That is all they concluded.

Witnesses that entered his room right after he died stated they found broken glass on his bed. One of the photographers caught some glass on the floor and photographed it. Did they miss those pieces when “cleaning” his room?

The list goes on and on. There are so many odd things about the case that I haven’t even begun to address them all.

But are we to believe James Forrestal apparently was asleep at 01:45, then woke up and noticed the guard was missing. He then instantly decided to kill himself, reached for the ashtray, broke it, threw some pieces on his bed and the rest on the floor, grabbed his razorblade, didn’t do anything with it so he threw that on the floor as well, then got out of bed and grabbed his bathrobe sash, sneaked out of his room through the hall and into the kitchen. He then tied the bathrobe sash around his neck tightly, opened the window and jumped, all in 3-5 minutes beginning to end?

No damage to his cervical vertebrae was found, so he probably didn’t hang himself first as some would speculate. Also the sash was found intact around his neck so he didn’t attach it to a fixed point like the radiator below the window. There were scratch marks outside the window. Did James Forrestal struggle to stay inside the building?

Then there is the story of the poem. James Forrestal was allegedly copying a poem from Sophocles' tragedy Ajax. He stopped in the middle of a word. Now the witnesses that entered his room right after his death made no mention of the book and the poem written within. The poem seems to have materialized out of thin air. In his testimony Dr. Raines conveniently mentions the poem, stating the handwriting looked like that of James Forrestal. Did it? Decide for yourself.

His brother was not at all convinced he killed himself. He had the following to say to author Cornell Simpson:

At his home in Beacon, New York, Henry Forrestal stated to this author that James Forrestal positively did not kill himself. He said his brother was the last person in the world who would have committed suicide and that he had no reason for taking his life. When Forrestal talked to his brother at the hospital, James was having a good time planning the things he would do following his discharge. Henry Forrestal recalled that Truman and [new Defense Secretary Louis] Johnson agreed that his brother was in fine shape and that the hospital officials admitted that he would have been released soon. To Henry Forrestal, the whole affair smelled to high heaven. He remarked about his brother's treatment at the hospital, his virtual imprisonment and the censorship of his visitors. Henry Forrestal had never heard of such treatment and questioned why it should have been allowed. He further questioned why the hospital officials lied about his brother being permitted all the visitors he wanted.

He was bitter when recounting that from the first minute the officials had insisted the death was a result of suicide; that they did not even consider the possibility of murder even though there was no suicide note, though his brother acted perfectly normal when the corpsman saw him only a few minutes before his death, though the bathrobe cord was knotted tightly around his neck.

He considered it odd that his brother had died just a few hours before he, Henry, was to arrive and take James out of the hospital.

Then he repeated his belief that James Forrestal did not kill himself; that he was murdered; that someone strangled him and threw him out the window. Henry Forrestal went on to ask why the authorities did not have the decency to admit these things and then try to apprehend the murderer. He lamented the fact that the case was hurriedly hushed up in an apparent attempt to avoid a scandal.

He went on to say that he was a Democrat but nevertheless he blamed the Truman administration for covering up his brother's murder, for letting it happen, and for the way James Forrestal was treated in the hospital. He concluded that he was "damned bitter" about it all but did not know what he could do.

His priest and close friend Monsignor Sheehy, when arriving at Bethesda Naval Hospital the next morning after Forrestal died, was approached by an unknown Navy corpsman.

There is at least one other person who did not believe the suicide story. Monsignor [Maurice] Sheehy said that when he hurried to the hospital several hours after Forrestal hurtled to his death to try to learn what he could of the circumstances of the tragedy, a stranger approached him in the crowded hospital corridor. The man was a hospital corpsman, a warrant officer wearing stripes attesting to twenty years of service in the navy. He said to Monsignor Sheehy in a low, tense voice: " know Mr. Forrestal didn't kill himself, don't you."

But before Monsignor Sheehy could reply or ask the man's name, he said, others in the crowded corridor pressed about him closely, and the veteran warrant officer, as if fearful of being overheard, quickly disappeared.

Who could have wanted James Forrestal dead? Well my personal opinion is he was silenced for his deep knowledge on the most highly classified and sensitive subject in the highest circles of the U.S. Government: Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

He was the Secretary of Defense and a alleged member of Majestic 12, so he would have known the ultimate secret if it in fact exists.

Possibly he started to oppose to the secrecy and felt the public should be told, thus becoming a high security risk.

In closing I would like to quote from one of the Majestic 12 documents. I know the Majestic documents are controversial but that’s not what this thread is about.

(final part in next post)

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

mod edit: spell check w/Member's ok.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by Badge01]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:46 PM

In protecting the security operations of MAJESTIC, it has been necessary to [BLACKED OUT] individuals who would compromise the intelligence efforts. While distasteful [BLACKED OUT] times, the use of [BLACKED OUT] measures have been executed. The untimely death of Secretary Forrestal, was deemed necessary and regrettable.

Other sources:

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:48 PM
For God's sake, don't stop now!

Silly at times, this line 2 requirement.

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 03:50 PM
reply to post by Fastwalker81

Hey! Wait a minute! S & F for excellent work, so far.

Have you read the (Richard?) Dolan book: "UFOs and the National Security State?"

One of the best investigative books generally, and especially important to understanding the UFO phenomenon.

He covers Forrestal's murder very well.

The Disinformation press has published a couple of things in one or another of their series exposing "common knowledge" and the MSM for the farces they are.

Keep up the good work. THIS is what ATS is about!

I'll get out so I can read the rest of your installments.

(Use cites and links)

deny ignorance

[edit on 28-1-2009 by jdub297]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:02 PM
Excellent work keep posting i want tto read more

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:02 PM
reply to post by jdub297

From what I recall, there's no way the robe/cord and radiator/heater scenario could possibly have worked. (unless he WAS delusional?)

Has anyone gotten new info about who actually did it? I know Dolan's follow up is due out, if not out out already.

I can see lots of threads coming here from Vol. 2, don't you?

[edit on 28-1-2009 by jdub297]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:13 PM

Originally posted by jdub297
Hey! Wait a minute! S & F for excellent work, so far.

Thanks, much appreciated

Have you read the (Richard?) Dolan book: "UFOs and the National Security State?"

One of the best investigative books generally, and especially important to understanding the UFO phenomenon.

He covers Forrestal's murder very well.

No I haven't read his book but I have heard of it. I did use an article authored by Richard Dolan on Forrestal. It's listed in my last post. Is his book worth it?

The Disinformation press has published a couple of things in one or another of their series exposing "common knowledge" and the MSM for the farces they are.

Yes I agree. In this case the media was misinformed at best and at worst they were blatantly lying.

I'll get out so I can read the rest of your installments.

(Use cites and links)

All my sources are listed in my last post and some in the threads themself. I can place links after the comments themselfes if that is easier. And of couse if I have the space for them.

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:31 PM
What an excellent and interesting thread! Thank you so much.

When I read about Forrestal's death, it also reminded me of the "suicide" of Frank Olson. People "jumping" or "falling" out of windows is perhaps a practical method when people in power want to get rid of troublesome persons..?

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:43 PM
I've always thought Forrestal was one of the first casualties of the war of silence. W. Stuart Symington may not be commonly regarded as a MAJIC member, but he certainly was close to all of them..., and an interesting tidbit...if the name sounds familiar, yes, Fife Symington (Governor of Arizona during the Phoenix Lights case) is related (cousin).

Most of the details just don't add up to Forrestal offing himself, and there's even an (admittedly) controversial Majestic doc alluding to murdering Forrestal.

Of course, the easy question is, if he was seen as suicidal, "Why would you put a potential suicide patient on the 14th floor?"

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 04:45 PM
reply to post by ziggystar60

Thanks Ziggy.

The Olson case appears to be highly interesting aswell. I will definitely read up on that one also.

Thanks for the link.

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Gazrok
Of course, the easy question is, if he was seen as suicidal, "Why would you put a potential suicide patient on the 14th floor?"

Indeed and what was even odder is that no security measures were in place upon his arrival.

They installed the security screens in his room a few days after he was placed in the tower. And according to Dr. Raines he was extremely suicidal and was just waiting for the right moment to off himself. You almost get the impression they hoped he would do just that.

Furthermore he appeared to be so suicidal that Dr. Raines himself commented how well he was doing and that he was close to leaving the hospital. And by that I don't mean through the 16th floor window...

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:14 PM
Awesome post and well presented. Even if I were not interested I'd star and flag this for the effort. Thank you and I'll be following this one intently.

Even if this had nothing to do with a cover up to do with extraterrestrials it would still be suspicious enough to warrant research.

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:36 PM
Thanks for a well researched and intelligently presented thread

While Forrestal is the subject of many threads and discussions on this site, you have managed to 'make it all new again' and I very much look forward to your next posts. If you haven't received any offical Applause yet, know you have it coming from this quarter!

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:02 PM
ahhhh, can you smell it? The smell of fresh air.
This is why I joined this site....thank you, thank you.
I wish there were more threads like this.
...Is there anyone in today's government that is the least bit interested in this Forrestal issue? Are there any documentarys to watch?

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:20 PM
Excellent information my friend, thanks.

Btw, I'm not seeing much in the way of any personal history about George N. Raines available on the net.

Might be revealing to know his complete schooling/employment history.

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:39 PM
reply to post by Fastwalker81

I commend your post & work. S & F. Bloody well outstanding!!! People need to be reminded from time to time about this tragic case in UFO History.

I have been familiar with the case of Forrestal for many, many years. The historical evidence speaks for itself.

IMHO, Mr. James V. Forrestal knew information that he was extremely uncomfortable with. He was viewed by the Truman MJ-12 as a very serious threat to National Security at the time. As matters processed, Forrestal was literally thrown out the window of his Bethesda Hospital room by some strong armed men. May God rest his soul. The rest is recorded in the convoluted annuls for the world to read.

People need to come to their senses and accept the FACT that UFOs are real. They have been coming & going at will for thousands of years. We are participants (either willing or for the most part unwillingly), & we need to come to terms with this. If we do not, we fail to understand the consequences of J.V. Forrestal.

posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:00 PM
I had NO clue who this guy was till this thread. I just did some brief research of my own and found some interesting stuff that corroborates your posting. Im a believer that most cases things dont "just" happen there is a plan or an agenda for it happening. This includes especially our government. Nice post I will be watching this thread. S & F

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