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If Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, what happened to the passengers?

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posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:17 PM
Having read the thread so far... a few things bother me.

We never hear how they get the DNA samples to identify the passengers. It's a minor point, but it nags. And we can all conjecture about this - I've just never come across any report that says how the sample material was found. The DNA identification, IIRC, came a long time after the event. Did someone go around to all the victims' houses and get samples nice and early, or did they all have lousy housekeeping and no-one cleaned the bathroom for months? I don't know. It just doesn't sit right.

And Cameron Fox just kills me. One tactic I've noticed is that people sometimes post so many links to overwhelm the opposition they don't read what they're posting, and they don't think others will either. in this link he posted to support the idea that bodies were witnessed, when you read it, it doesn't support the idea at all...

...a piece of bogus and planted evidence making it look like one of Flight 77's passengers died at the Pentagon when, in fact, the person probably never was there at all.

Capt. Jim Ingledue, shift safety officer of the Virginia Beach Fire Dept, said Monday he found amidst the rubble at the Pentagon, two days after 9/11, the perfectly clean and unblemished California ID card of Suzanne Calley, 42, one of the alleged victims killed aboard Flight 77.

"I remember thinking it was highly unusual and strange to find a perfectly intact ID card amidst all that devastation," said Capt. Ingledue, a Pentagon first responder who arrived two days after 9/11 and spent a total of seven days in search and rescue.

And do these people actually exist?

Calley is survived by her husband, Frank, who lives in St. Martin, California, but he was unavailable for comment after numerous messages were left on his answering machine.

I wonder where that answering machine actually is?

What happened to the passengers? Who knows? Being forced to supply a theory when there isn't enough evidence is a scammer's trick. But the initial hole in the Pentagon wall was tiny - only about 16 feet in diameter - and there was no corresponding holes for the engines, which would have caused damage being extremely massive.

The lawn in front of the Pentagon was immaculate. The hijacker couldn't fly. Identity cards turn up, suspiciously, in the aftermath - just like the passport someone handed in to a policeman at the WTC. I can't buy the official theory. It just doesn't stand up.

Posting things like "maybe the controls of a 757 are more forgiving than those of a Cessna" inclines me to think that the OP isn't asking the question in any serious, open-minded sense of inquiry. Not one reputable airline pilot has come out with anything as outrageous as that. Many have said that the manoevres were impossible, perhaps for the airframe, but beyond all doubt for Hanjour. Pulling a 270-degree, 5g turn and crashing into a low-rise building requires serious flying skills, and to suggest it doesn't is disingenuous.

I'm quite happy to say I don't know what happened. The official story doesn't make sense, that's for sure: and there's enough evidence around to point the finger at factions within the government. I'm grateful to the poster who put up this link, which I hadn't come across before:

The extremely skillful maneuvering of the three aircraft at near mach speeds, each unerringly hitting their targets, was superb. As one Air Force officer -- a veteran of over 100 sorties over North Vietnam -- explained, "Those birds (commercial airliners) either had a crack fighter pilot in the left seat, or they were being maneuvered by remote control."

Another pilot warned that "we had better consider whether electro-magnetic pulse or radio frequency weapons were used from a command and control platform hovering over the Eastern Seaboard... I'm talkin' AWACS."

Which would explain the mystery aircraft high in the sky over NYC which TPTB definitely didn't want attention paid to.

I was pretty skeptical, initially, of the Pentagon flyover theory myself... but there are plenty of witnesses who do support it, Craig Ranke has done a stellar job of getting his butt down there, digging them up and getting their testimony: and it actually makes sense.

Yes, by all means crash planes into buildings that are coming down anyway. The people there are collateral damage, and you can't control the scene. But the Pentagon - that's a scene you can control, and while some are expendable, there are definitely people - and items - there that you don't want to lose. Why take a massive risk when you can have a plane fly over, and do the rest with entirely controllable shaped charges?

Why else have a guy who can't even fly a Cessna pull a high-g turn taking the airframe right to its limits (if not beyond) simply so that he could hit the correct side of the building - the relatively empty one? Why wouldn't he just go into a steep dive?

As for the initial question - I'm going with most of them being fictional or military personnel who just "disappear". After all, as other posters have pointed out, the initial passenger list got changed without explanation. Why? Another loose end that's never been followed up.

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:32 AM

Originally posted by pteridine
I can just as readily ask you to prove that bodies were not found at the Pentagon, Tezza.

It just gets worse for you, doesn't it, pteridine?

You made a claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon. You couldn't support it. Now, you want me to prove that there were no bodies found? In case anyone happens to be listening, that's the sound of logic being shattered.

In a few different threads, I have suggested to both jthomas and pinch that they should enrol in a short course on logic and proof. Perhaps you need to do the same. You're way out of your depth and showing it, when you're asking me to prove that your claim can't be true.

Prove that the DoD lied.

Why are you grasping at straws? What has the DoD got to do with YOU proving that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon? If you think that the DoD has some evidence that you can use, then why haven't you used it to show me where the bodies were located and who's bodies they were?

Prove that an aircraft didn't hit the Pentagon.

Huh? Why? I don't know if a plane hit the Pentagon or not. Why are you so desperately trying to avoid YOUR claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon?

Prove that all the funerals were faked.

Huh? What are you on about? You're the one who made the claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon. Go ahead, prove it...

Prove that the airlines are hiding planes that never crashed.

How many more off topic tangents will you introduce to avoid supporting your claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon?

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 12:57 AM
reply to post by tezzajw

The evidence says passenger aircraft. If you believe it was an empty commercial passenger aircraft and that no one got on Flight 77, enjoy your fantasy. I sent this link to Rhunt also. I recommend that you look carefully and try to understand the real issues.

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:02 AM

Originally posted by pteridine
The evidence says passenger aircraft. If you believe it was an empty commercial passenger aircraft and that no one got on Flight 77, enjoy your fantasy.

Huh? At what point did I ever state that it was an empty passenger plane? Wow, you must really enjoy creating false scenarios, right?

Again, I note that you're not attempting to support your claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon?

I trust that you're not going to spread this rumour anymore, unless you can support it? People can see through BS claims, pteridine. No matter how often you try to spread this urban myth, it's not true unless it has been proven.

Numbered ellipses, indeed... how about some real proof?

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:19 AM
reply to post by tezzajw

I will continue to make that claim.

If you can't accept the map of the bodies, the photos used in the trial, and the DoD analyses, you'll just have to stay on ATS to counter such irresponsible thoughts and guard against heresy from distant, imaginary Melbourne.

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:30 AM
There were two reported phone calls from Flight 77: a cell phone call from flight attendant Renee May to her mother; and a cell phone call from passenger Barbara Olson to her husband, US Solicitor General Ted Olson. Ted Olson related to Newsweek:
Barbara was calm and collected as she told him how hijackers had used boxcutters and knifes to take control of the plane and had herded the passengers and crew to the back. “Ted, what can I do?” she asked him. “What can I tell the pilot?” Then, inexplicably, she got cut off.

I think this proves passengers were on the plane and there were terrorists.

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:34 AM

Originally posted by pteridine
I will continue to make that claim.
If you can't accept the map of the bodies,

Oh, this is gold. I don't need to turn on the TV for any comedy relief tonight. By map of bodies, I assume that you're refering to the 'numbered ellipses', right?

the photos used in the trial,

The very same photos that do not put a single name to a single body? Yeah, sure, that's some real hard proof there, pteridine.

and the DoD analyses,

Show me? You've yet to play the DoD card. Maybe they can help your claim that passenger bodies were found at the Pentagon?

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:40 AM
reply to post by _Mr.X_

Umm wow. Good observation there mate. I wanted to prove you wrong so I was looking through the photos of Shanks and the Pentagon and I can't see any bodies whatsoever..

posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 01:50 AM
reply to post by tezzajw

See the links below. Share them with your pals at Kangaroo High.

posted on Jun, 2 2009 @ 04:52 PM
For a solid history of what our government is capable of please read Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine and watch the ZeitGeist movies at

Anyone who still protests disbelief is protesting too much!

I suppose that because I've lived in England for the last 2 decades, I've missed out on almost all of the conspiracy evidence and discussion. I'd even come to accept that Oswald was working on his own! Now that I know about the 911 warmups in Oklahoma and the first WTC bombing which included many of the same suspects, I cannot put anything past our leaders.

I learned in school that Herbert Hoover was a useless president but was never taught that he caused the Boxer Rebellion in China or fed the german army in WW2 on behalf of US/UK banks!

Back to topic, I agree with the general thread consensus that this attack was an inside job and that we probably won't know what happened to the real passengers until documents are release 20 years from now! This is how we know about operation Gladio where the CIA supported false flag terrorist attacks in Europe and beyond.

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 04:14 PM
I am curious about the radar tracking of the plane as it left Dulles airport, seems plausible there was a switch of planes on radar (so easy it is to manipulate "software"!). A plausible answer is that the Flight 77 plane (with passengers) was quickly downed (after the switch on radar) in the mountains by a F15 missle. Or who knows, maybe even flown on to NORAD or other top secret base and exterminated there... (read the link below for radar evidence).

I think what happened is a dummy commercial airline (not same one as Flight 77) flew on the north side Columbia Pike, which is what everyone saw (flying slow and then flew over the Pentagon), then a supersonic-capable military plane (perhaps a stealth designed plane or missle that can't be seen on radar and very difficultly by nake eye also, i.e. painted sky blue on underside and green on top, both color painted objects were found on scene) or missle drone was flown a very high speeds from the south side of Columbia Pike. IMO, this is why the AWACS C-130 was seen in the area. No one would have noticed the supersonic thing at the point traveling at 500-600 miles per hour (just below speed of sound to avoid sonic boom), because 0.5 mile is covered in 3 seconds. The larger, slower, more noisy commercial jet would have captured their eye instead. Like a magicians illusion, he gets you to look at his left hand, while he is doing the switch with his right hand.

Or explosives were planted. In any case, it appears to be impossible from the evidence, that a 757 hit the Pentagon.

For supporting evidence and more discussion, click following link to read another thread:

posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 07:28 PM
I love how some of the debunkers love to agree that the OS doesn't make sense yet their proof comes from it, i.e. bodies, DNA and such...

posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:49 PM
reply to post by CameronFox

Okay so you expect us to believe that DNA evidence was found but all black boxes (that are suppose to be indestructible) were too damaged to retract any evidence from? Or that the footage was never released of the plane hitting the Pentagon? You really are nuts. I also find it utterly amazing how you are all over the CIT on ATS. I guess we know who the site troll is. Thanks for the misinformation though. I needed something to wipe my butt with. Maybe next time you post you should start off with "Coming up next, Live from the Fox broadcasting room..."

The FACT is "THE EXPERTS" can agree something stinks and they do not add up, well except the sheeple like yourself that is. I have no idea if these people existed or not, or if they were just sent out to sea and shot down, but to think our government is tell us the truth?

Just as you can say this and that about us CIT... we can say it's way easier for the government to cover up ANYTHING they wanted and we couldn't do a damn thing about it. I mean if they came out tomorrow and said "Yeah we killed them, JFK and plenty of others you will never know about and we will keep on doing it." we couldn't stop them or do ANYTHING about it because they already have control over 80% of the governments around the world. We're their sheep and they WILL slaughter whoever they want, when they want and you or ANYONE else can't stop them.

We messed up a long time ago when we gave them the power. They took hold of the reins and never looked back. It has always been survival of the fittest and ONLY the strong will survive. The best we can do is to stay true to ourselves and create the peace we long for inside ourselves because that's the only way we will get it.

There is nothing wrong with our country... WE JUST WANT IT BACK... and a new government...

Did you hear me Santa?

posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:59 PM
reply to post by shelby3

Logic and Reason go so well together...

posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 11:06 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

i'm a pilot, you're wrong about the evidence in plain sight
good gravy

posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 02:40 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

So do you have this link where we can see these pictures of the parts that were found? Of course not because a plane never hit. Logo? How about the fact that there were no windows on the plane that hit the towers? Anonymous ATS? Why not FoxPsyOps? Kind of fits you better....

posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 03:03 PM
I am not aware of any hard evidence of any noplane theories and they can be debunked by anybody who had his camera trained on the second tower that day. The most likely scenario is that the planes have been remote controlled using the same technology that is meant to prevent skyjackings.

Is there evidence for a swap of planes or that the passenger have been disposed elsewhere?

posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:19 PM
reply to post by SmArTbEaTz

Logic and Reason go so well together... [/ex

So far have not demonstrated either

Only parroting conspiracy sites.....

posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 10:41 PM
reply to post by thedman

LoL... I should of anticipated as much from one of the flock... Logic and Reason are apparent to those with the education and knowledge of how to find it and point it out. The only way to get the blind (d)man to see is to run them straight into a brick wall as hard as you can. If you still can't see it... well it sure was fun to see you hit that wall...

posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 08:41 AM
I cant believe iv actually read this whole thread. just bcoz no one can tell you where the passengers of flt 77 ended up doesnt automatically mean that flt 77 had to hve hit the pentogon. Theres enuff hard evidence that conradicts the OS ppl are to dam blind to see it. I havt a clue were the passengers are but i do know no boeing hit that building and i aplaude the work of the cit guys

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