Phoenix Lights --- My Story.....

reply to post by Topol-M

Thank you for your response

No need to apologize, I admittedly don't know much about how the Air Force or the Military works, so my question might have not made any sense.

It's too bad that we'll probably never find out who ordered the flare drop, could've been quite enlightening to know.

reply to post by atsbeliever


I actually do believe that aliens have visited our planet. Yes, I am a skeptic, and this case has many problems with it. The major problem is the two sightings that are confusing to many people. There was an alleged earlier sighting of a boomerang earlier that day. My problem is with all the pictures and videos of the later flares, why didn't any one of the thousands of witnesses take pictures or videos of the boomerang? That is a legitimate question.

I do find it amusing I am called a debunker or other names when I am calling important questions about a sighting. I do not have blinders on that makes me not look at the evidence. There is no evidence other than eyewitnesses to the first case. While the eyewitnesses are important, they could still have seen a secret stealth craft and miscalculated its size. This is one of the major problems with Ufology. If you don't like the questions or the analysis, attack the person, and ignore the questions.

The first sighting could have been a secret government craft. There are many explanations to give it, even an extraterrestrial one. However, the latter requires a lot of proof and evidence. That is a profound claim, and if one wants to make a profound claim, they must back it up. As I have stated before, I want the truth just like the rest of you. It takes a lot for me to think the answer is aliens, and there are many better cases out there that do.

Gov Symington at first made fun of the sightings, and now changes his mind on a TV show and calls it unworldly. It may have looked unworldly, but why did he change his mind now? People state cover-up, but could there be more to it than that?

I knew that being skeptical of this case would open a can of worms, but I am prepared to accept that.

Well given that no scientist or government in the world has openly admitted to discovering 'Anti gravity' propulsion, what other conclusion could one draw?
Even our most advanced stealth aircraft use normal conventional thrust, whilst it may be nearly invisible to radar, it is not to human eyes or ears.
People saw this thing fly RIGHT OVER THEIR HEADS..yet heard nothing, and it appeared to be going too slowly to be a jet..
Take a look at this video of the B2 Stealth flying right over head..listen to the noise... NO WAY you couldn't hear it at this range?!

www.youtube.com...
And bare in mind the altitude, that B2 is pretty big but is DWARFED by the size of the black triangle people reported that night, unless it was flying like 10 feet about their heads or really really BIG..hmm not likely!

So therefore, unless the government has discovered anti gravity..why keep it silent? This could free us from the middle east oil and put us on a road to unheard of growth and prosperity?!
And lastly, WHY fly such an incredibly top secret craft RIGHT OVER a population area? They have thousands of miles of testing ranges to keep it well hidden, why risk such a mass sighting & unwanted attention..MAKES NO SENSE MAN! NO LOGIC.

One of the witness's Tim Ley reported
""When it finally got here and we realized this thing was coming right over us, we really started getting antsy," Ley said. Then, said he and his son Hal, it went directly overhead in complete silence"

The first sighting could have been a secret government craft. There are many explanations to give it, even an extraterrestrial one. However, the latter requires a lot of proof and evidence. That is a profound claim, and if one wants to make a profound claim, they must back it up. As I have stated before, I want the truth just like the rest of you. It takes a lot for me to think the answer is aliens, and there are many better cases out there that do.

Gov Symington at first made fun of the sightings, and now changes his mind on a TV show and calls it unworldly. It may have looked unworldly, but why did he change his mind now? People state cover-up, but could there be more to it than that?

He said it himself, he was scared for his career and tried to just play it off and diffuse the situation. Given back then the media's "giggle" factor over UFOs in general, it would have ended his career had he stepped up most likely. He's only human and had his self interest at heart in this instance. I thought it showed he still has some character owning up to his mistake back then. But its not the first nor last time a person in position of power has lied now is it?
Again, no logic that its an earthly craft.

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

reply to post by atsbeliever


Those are good points to bring up. There still is my question about no video or photos taken of the rather large craft. I cannot state it is from another world as the evidence is only hearsay. To me, while this is an interesting case, there are many others that have much more evidence to back them up.

If it is a secret military craft, the military will never admit it, just like they would not admit it if it was an alien craft.

This case can only be relegated to the files as no new evidence has popped up about it.

Thank you for responding to me, as I am one to be open minded. However, as I have stated before, extraordinary claims require evidence to back them up.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
Thank you for responding to me, as I am one to be open minded. However, as I have stated before, extraordinary claims require evidence to back them up.

No doubt that extraordinary claims require evidence, but wouldn't you also require evidence for the claim that it was a military craft?

It just seems that you more easily and faster accept that it was a military craft and kind of forget that you need evidence for that possibility to be viable as well. I understand that from a probability point of view perhaps the alien hypothesis is lower than the military one, but it only makes sense to believe one over the other when the evidence points to it.

And yes people talk a lot about the Government covering up alien visitation or even crashes, but if we take the position that this was a military craft doesn't that require a cover up as big as the one required to keep alien visitation in silence?

I mean, people say this was a huge boomerang shaped craft that flew silently over Phoenix. What propulsion does it use? What is the purpose for such a craft? Where do they even store this craft? And sightings of this nature, dimension and impressive characteristics have been reported for many many decades.

If we assume the military is behind most of these unexplained sightings then we have to accept the possibility that they have had this technology and these craft for decades, and apparently have been able to keep it a secret from everyone.

Whether you believe a craft like this was alien or military you require a cover-up, and the fact that flares were dropped after people were reporting something unexplained fly over Phoenix points to at least an attempt at a cover-up, and certainly at an attempt to confuse people and deflect attention from something else.

I wish there was more proof too! Back in those days there wasn't nearly as many 'camera ready' people walking around like we have now (Cell phones digital cameras) Here's probably the only video I have seen taken of this triangle:
www.youtube.com...
(Fast forward to 8:30) its not the best but you can make out the lights maneuvering.

I just dont find any logic that the government would fly such a highly prized & classified craft over a population and risk sightings, or even a crash?! What if something happened and it crashed into a suburb? Their secret would be OUT right? Theres no logic to doing that is there?

Any way I hope the OP comes forth with more info..we're all dying for something to hold on to...!

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by atsbeliever

 

Those are good points to bring up. There still is my question about no video or photos taken of the rather large craft. I cannot state it is from another world as the evidence is only hearsay. To me, while this is an interesting case, there are many others that have much more evidence to back them up.

If it is a secret military craft, the military will never admit it, just like they would not admit it if it was an alien craft.

This case can only be relegated to the files as no new evidence has popped up about it.

Thank you for responding to me, as I am one to be open minded. However, as I have stated before, extraordinary claims require evidence to back them up.

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

[edit on 20-1-2009 by atsbeliever]

I also find it strange that there are many videos and pictures of the later sighting, but none of the alleged boomerang that appeared earlier.

Occam's Razor: The military flares disappearing behind the mountains is the best explanation. More information is needed on the alleged earlier sightings.

That is the point. The flares were released to dismiss the other reports. There were many, many calls prior to the lights over Phoenix. And many after. From people that had no idea what was happening over Phoenix. That's why this is intriguing.

How often has a dropping of flares like that occurred next to Phoenix previously? Never. After? Never. Why that night then? Coincidentally on the same night that multiple other sightings were reported? You don't question this at all, or find this odd?

I do. I am very skeptical of most sightings. But this is a significant one in many regards, imo. Not only the # of sightings, but the way the government deflected attention onto themselves. This is what we should be LOOKING FOR. This is an important case. I'm amused you can dismiss it as easily as "Oh, flares.. and people didn't take pictures? Didn't happen then."

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Topol-M

 

All the videos show that the phenomena was likely to be flares disappearing behind the mountains. The objects that were video taped did not do any maneuvers that could attribute them to being some type of craft.

I also find it strange that there are many videos and pictures of the later sighting, but none of the alleged boomerang that appeared earlier.

Occam's Razor: The military flares disappearing behind the mountains is the best explanation. More information is needed on the alleged earlier sightings.

It would be far easier for the later events to be videotaped than the earlier events wouldn't you think? People were probably already outside waiting for something to happen with their cameras ready.

Nobody cares about the sighting of the flares. Everybody already knows those were flares, what people are concerned about is the earlier sighting supported by eyewitness testimony of a large number of people. Witnesses of the earlier sightings describe something so close to them that they could even perceive the texture of the material.

Could they have misidentified it? it's possible, but to dismiss it entirely because of the flares that were dropped a few hours later is illogical. Being able to explain the later event does not automatically make the previous event invalid. In fact it has nothing to do with the previous event. (unless the hypothesis that it was a deliberate attempt to mislead people to draw conclusions such as yours turns out to hold any water)

-rrr

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by atsbeliever

 

Thank you for responding to me, as I am one to be open minded. However, as I have stated before, extraordinary claims require evidence to back them up.

Agreed.

What do you think that is the right thing to do about extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence... to try to uncover new evidence, or to try to ignore them?

-rrr

reply to post by converge


One point that people have not considered is that the phoenix sighting could have been merely a ginormous boomerang shaped lighter than air craft (blimp)

Technically, there is nothing, performance wise, that the alleged phoenix craft could do that a large boomerang shaped blimp couldn't also do.

I realize that is a wild hypothesis (as wild as the other's due to lack of evidence) although it does not require the existence of aliens or antigravity.

however, I do find the idea that it was aliens, or a boomerang shaped survival antigravity ship made by the USA much sexier.

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr
One point that people have not considered is that the phoenix sighting could have been merely a ginormous boomerang shaped lighter than air craft (blimp)

Technically, there is nothing, performance wise, that the alleged phoenix craft could do that a large boomerang shaped blimp couldn't also do.

I realize that is a wild hypothesis (as wild as the other's due to lack of evidence) although it does not require the existence of aliens or antigravity.

OK, so let's assume it was a blimp.

So the Military for some strange reason decide to fly this classified blimp over Phoenix, but then regret it and decide to drop flares in order to muddy the waters, deflect attention and confuse the people?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense

Somebody questioned why flares would be dropped while an actual "experience" was happening. The simple answer is that there are contingency plans for about every UFO event. If the flares were out of synch with where they were usually dropped, then that tells us they were ordered to drop where they did. That sorta proves the case. There are crash retrivial teams located variously around the states. I have suspicions that these involve C-130s that can drop equipment and paratroops near to any reported UFO crash. I don't have the space here or the time, but a few years ago there were two large tanks that fell in south Texas within two weeks time--how strange is that? I suspect those were dummy drops for training of the retrivial teams. Shortly after one, I witnessed at nighttime shortly thereafter a C-130 flying a gride pattern near the Austin area at low level. NEVER is such things done in this area. Call me stupid and jumping to conclusions, but to think they have no response protocal to UFO events is a bit immature in thinking/knowing what it is all about.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by rickyrrr
One point that people have not considered is that the phoenix sighting could have been merely a ginormous boomerang shaped lighter than air craft (blimp)

Technically, there is nothing, performance wise, that the alleged phoenix craft could do that a large boomerang shaped blimp couldn't also do.

I realize that is a wild hypothesis (as wild as the other's due to lack of evidence) although it does not require the existence of aliens or antigravity.

OK, so let's assume it was a blimp.

So the Military for some strange reason decide to fly this classified blimp over Phoenix, but then regret it and decide to drop flares in order to muddy the waters, deflect attention and confuse the people?

Did you forget that the F-16 reported the object leaving the states flying at mach 1.8? That is probably the best little nugget he gave us.

Topol-M,
Thank you very much for this account. Paper trails and other evidence to investigate and follow for this case have pretty much dried up as far as the civilian community is concerned. Is it possible given your experience and inside knowledge of the military resources and people involved with this event that you could give any advice on where researchers might go to try and dig up new information? Is there anywhere that FOIA requests could be aimed based on departments you believe would have been involved that night. Are there inquires that could be made that you yourself are not able to make because it would jeopardize your legal commitments to the Air force?

this video shows the supposed 8 o'clock V craft.

definitely not Flares !

reply to post by easynow

This was the flare footage. You can find that footage overlayed on a daytime shot of the mountain range and see that they disappear exactly as the terrain blocks their view.

As for extraordinary evidence, this case indeed has it.

1. Hundreds of witnesses to silent triangular shaped craft
   
2. Radar returns indicating probable intentional suppression efforts of identifying data
   
3. Testimony from a member of "in-the-know" military to collaborate the sightings
   

There's nothing there to prove an alien craft controlled by EBE's though. It still could have been a possible realtime test of said craft's stealth capabilities in a populated area. Should that be the case it failed miserably. Sounds like they need to project the above starfield onto the bottom surface to complete visual cloaking. A piece of evidence that could have been phenomenal would have been a night vision recording. I look forward to the day when Walgreen's sells disposable night vision camcorders.

Thanks,

your testimony contradicts the official statement(s) by the
Luke AFB, that no jets were sent out & that no anomalies
or radar detection was cause for any AFB responses.
the official word was there was only business-as-usual at Luke.

~~~~~~~~~~~~`


but neither does your statement take into account the mass sighting(s)
seen throughout the daytime of a triangle craft...
radio reports began around 8AM of the raft seen in the Vegas area
then reports from Kingman AZ, over to Ashfork, then down to Sedona,
& Verde Valley & the Prescot area, over to Wickenburg, then back to BlackCanyonCity, south to CaveCreek, & into Northern Phoenix in
Paradise Valley, over the Camelback mountain, down 40th St then a right turn following IndianSchoolRoad, over Estrella Park, then south over
Chandler, down the interstate past CasaGrande and heading to Tuscon...

the craft was then seen around Phoenix once again in the 8-8:30 time
which seemed really odd... then the 10:00PM formation thats known as the Phoenix-Lights, (which are the flares)



I'd ask why weren't investigative/reconnaisance aircraft sent up during the daylight sightings which continued over 12 hours (8am-8pm, over Nevada & Az)

Radio reports continued that All that day via the 'Talk Radio' station KFYI in Phoenix AZ

reply to post by BuffaloJoe

This was the flare footage.

No................the begging and ending part is the flare footage.

pay attention...the video has the eight o'clock lights in a V formation

watch at mark :42-:51 and then again at mark 1:01-1:25

[edit on 21-1-2009 by easynow]

This event is just another in a list of events familiar to all of us that will end up in the.....was it or wasn't it bin.

One day you might be priviledged to discover that there are so many ships flinting around in our skies.

Take this for what's it's worth but if you want a chance to catch a ship you have to slow it up. The ships move to fast for our camers and eyes and the only time you get them is when they slow it up.

reply to post by easynow


Yeah, you're right - I jumped to conclusions based on how it started. Hearing the people gasp at the falling flares in the beginning is now pretty disappointing.