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The Temple Mount is the foundation of Muslim & Jewish conflict

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posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 06:38 PM
First off, I was inspired to create this post after reading a reply by Cythraul in this thread:

"Any blow-up at The Temple Mount, be it fire, destruction of a building or bloodshed will have a hundred times the impact it would at any other spot"
- Shlomo Gazit: Former head of Israeli military intelligence.

I believe that the current and the continuing conflict in Israeli has its basis in the control of The Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Wikipedia : The Temple Mount

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism. Jewish Midrash holds that it was from here that the world expanded into its present form, and that this was where God gathered the dust he used to create the first man, Adam. The Torah records that it was here that God chose to rest his Divine Presence, consequently two Jewish Temples were built at the site. According to Jewish tradition, the Third Temple will also be located here, and will be the final one.

[n Islam, the site is revered as the location of Islamic prophet Muhammad's journey to Jerusalem and ascent to heaven and is associated with other local Muslim figures of antiquity. The site is the location of the al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock, the oldest extant Islamic structure in the world.

-------------Significance in Judaism

1000 B.C. - King David conquered the land which would become modern Jerusalem he was commanded by God to erect a temple in the same spot God tested Abraham's faith by asking him to sacrifice Isaac.

And God came that day to David and said to him, "Go up, erect an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite." . . . And David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the Lord heeded the prayers for the land, and the plague was withdrawn from Israel. 2 Samuel 24: 15,1 6, 18, 25.

Now David died before he built the Temple that God wanted, so David's son Solomon took over construction around 960 B.C.

You know that my father David could not build a house for the name of the Lord his God because of the wars which were fought against him on every side until the Lord put his foes under the soles of his feet. Solomon - 1 Kings 5:3.

This temple was a huge construction process. It took 7 years and involved over 10,000 workers.

Some excerpts of the construction in 1 Kings Chapter 6.

So Solomon built the house, and finished it. He lined the walls of the house on the inside with boards of cedar; from the floor of the house to the rafters of the ceiling, he covered them on the inside with wood; and he covered the floor of the house with boards of cypress. He built twenty cubits of the rear of the house with boards of cedar from the floor to the rafters, and he built this within as an inner sanctuary, as the most holy place. The house, that is, the nave in front of the inner sanctuary, was forty cubits long. The cedar within the house was carved in the form of gourds and open flowers; all was cedar, no stone was seen. The inner sanctuary he prepared in the innermost part of the house, to set there the ark of the covenant of the LORD

So the temple is built. It is the center of The Jewish religion and everything is great for around 375 years, minus the occasional raid or two.

580 B.C. - In come the Babylonians and they turn it into a pile of a rubble. Its totally destroyed, the most important structure in Judaism is gone and the Jews are sent to Babylonian captivity.

60 years pass and the Babylonians are overthrown by the Persians. The Persian leader Cyrus the Great decides to let the Jewish people leave. Naturally they head back to Jerusalem, the center of their religion. Jewish leaders decide that the first thing they want to do is build another temple. It is that important to their faith. After some delays and about 20 years the new temple is finished in 521 B.C. This is know as, drum roll...... The Second Temple

330 B.C. - Alexander the Great conquers the Persian Empire. After a ton of politics and wars Rome's power increases and Jerusalem comes under its rule . They set up a Roman client King the first born male baby killing guy we all know as Herod the Great.

Herod was real concerned with what historians were going think of him so he takes up huge construction programs, one of them being a complete remodel of the Temple. He knocked the entire thing down and built a new grander one know as Herod's Temple. I know your thinking, " well isn't that the third temple?" Nope, because sacrifices never stopped during construction so it doesn't count as the third temple.

70 A.D - The Israelites revolt over Roman rule in. In retaliation Rome sends Titus who proceeds to completely destroy the entire city including Herod's Temple. The only piece left is what is known as The Wailing Wall today. The Temple's destruction is known as the "saddest day in Jewish history", and is commemorated by the fast of Tisha B'Av.

----------------- Significance in Islam

620 A.D. - Muhammad is in Mecca when the angel Gabriel visits him and takes gives him Buraq which flies him in the night to "the farthest mosque." Some scholars believe he meant what is now the location of the oldest Islamic structure in the world Al-Aqsa Mosque and a second structure The Dome of the Rock, which is located over the Foundation Rock and Well of the Souls in what is assumed to be the approximate location of the Jewish Temple and the Holy of Holies. There is some debate if The Temple Mount was actually what Muhammad meant at the time since there was no Islamic structure present in 620, but I feel that actual logistics are not relevant in to the importance it has in Islam.

While there Muhammad ascends to Heaven from the Foundation Rock over The Well of the Souls , prays with the prophets and talks with Moses and Allah. Muslims celebration of this day is called Lailat al Mira.

In the 7th century The Arabs conquered Syria/Palestine from the Roman/Byzantine empires who had been in control for 700 years.


posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 06:48 PM
637 A.D. - Arabs conquered the city after the siege of Jerusalem. Omar the Great personally arrived in the city to negotiate a peace treaty, one in which he decreed Jews were allowed to return to Palestine after a 500 year ban by the Romans/Byzantines.

After terms were agreed he asked to see the famous Temple Mount. He found it to be a complete mess. The Romans had used it for years as a garbage dump. He got on his hands and knees and dug out trash. Soon everyone there was helping. He choose that spot for a small mosque to be built. This became Al-Aqsa Mosque.

661 A.D. and 700 A.D - Al-Aqsa Mosque was built. It evolved from a small place of prayer to a larger structure. It was damaged in an earthquake in 746 and repaired, torn down in 754 and rebuilt. Torn down again in 780 and rebuilt again. Another earthquake in 1033 then it was reconstructed a few years later and that structure remains.

685 - 691 A.D. - The Dome of the Rock was built to function as a shrine for pilgrims to Jerusalem. In my opinion it is one of the most beautiful buildings ever erected.

1099 - Crusaders captured Jerusalem. Eventually Al-Aqsa Mosque morphed into the headquarters of The Templar Knights. The Dome of the Rock was considered to be the location of The First Temple and the Knights transformed that into a Christian church.

1187 - Saladin conquered Jerusalem and restored both buildings to Islamic structures.

-------------- Modern Era

1917 – Jerusalem falls to the British Empire forces after defeating the Ottoman Turks who have controlled the city since 1517. First time Christians have controlled the city in a thousand years.

1917 – The Balfour Agreement was a secret statement of British foreign policy concerning the British desire of a Jewish State. Around this period The Temple Mount becomes a symbol for both the Jews claim to a Jewish state while at the same time signifies how Arabs believed they were being forced out of the region. In turn the Muslims become extremely protective of the area and see any Jewish presence as a threat and provocation.

April 4-7, 1920– Large scale riots in Jerusalem. Instigated by Arabs in retaliation to perceived influx of Jews and in part from The Balfour Agreement.

1928 – During Yom Kippur Jewish worshippers attempt to put a bench and screens by The Western Wall. The Arabs see this is a threat to their claim to The Mount and in turn Palestine. With tensions escalating The British are forced to step in and decide that nothing can be brought in or around The Mount. It must stay exactly as it is.

1929 – The tension finally explodes and huge riots broke out over access to The Western Wall resulting in 116 Arab deaths and133 Jews with 339 wounded. The worst violence took place in Hebron after rumors spread Jews were planning on attacking the Al-Aqsa Mosq.

1947 – he British mandate ends and a civil war begins in Palestine lasting until 1948 when it escalates to the Arab-Israeli war after Israelites declare their independence. It is almost instantly recognized by the US, Iran and The Soviet Union. Iraq, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon and Jordan declare war on Israel. Jordan troops aided by Saudi Arabia, Libya and Yemen surround Jerusalem.

1949 – Armistice Agreements are signed. Jerusalem is split down the middle with Jordan controlling the east where the Temple Mount is located. Israelites were denied access to The Temple Mount and other sites.

1967 – The Six Day War is fought. Israel takes over the eastern section of Jerusalem. The defense of The Temple Mount becomes a major part of the conflict from the Arab perspective. Jewish access is restored and the Moroccan section is destroyed to provide parking spaces for visitors to the Western Wall. Israel archeologists begin digging under The Temple Mount to the outcry of Arabs.
Israel then passes the Jerusalem Laws which says it is now the capital city and all holy places will be defended against desecration. The actual Temple Mount with its Islamic holy places is allowed to be run by a Islamic group called Waqf. The UN passes a resolution “declaring the action a violation of international law.”

1969 – An Australian Christian named Michael Rohan sets fire to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The fire does little damage but rumors quickly spread in Arab nations that it was part of a plot to destroy the area and bring about the Third Temple. Some Arab media outlets still report this as fact on the anniversary of the fire.

1981 - Alan Harry Goodman an Israeli Army recruit born American who became a Israel citizen in 1981 shot and killed 2 Arabs and injured 11 after storming into The Dome of the Rock.

1984 – An Underground Jewish terror organization called Gush Emunim attempted to destroy The Dome of The Rock with explosives. They were discovered by Israeli Shin Bet agents before the plan came to fruition and arrested.

1990 – A fringe Orthodox Jewish group called Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement attempted to lay a corner stone for the new temple. It quickly got out of control resulting in the Israeli Border Police using tear gas against worshippers and cumulated in gunfire which lasted 29 minutes. 20 Palestinians were killed and over 150 injured.


posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 06:52 PM
1996 – Israeli archaeologists began digging at an ancient tunnel on the side of The Mount. Palestinians were outraged and claimed Israel was trying to destroy and gain control of it by undermining. This resulted in fierce fighting in Gaza and the West bank 54 Palestinians and 14 Israelis were killed.

1999 – An American cult called Denver’s Concerned Christians are arrested by Israeli secret service and police in Jerusalem after disappearing from Colorado. They are charged with attempting to start a shootout in which they believed would bring about the return of Christ.

2000 - The Waqf used bulldozers to reopen a 12th century crusader tunnel to use as an emergency exit. The construction damaged part of the archaeological record inciting heated debate between the two parties.

2000 - Ariel Sharon surrounded by hundreds of riot police visited the mount in an attempt to show support for the idea that Israelis should be allowed to visit The Mount. Soon after he left riots erupted. The following day larger riots erupted and Israeli police were forced to storm the mount. 7 Palestinians were killed, 300 wounded and 70 Israeli police officers were injured. Over the next five days in violence erupted in Gaza and the West bank. 47 Palestinians were killed and 1885 were wounded. The IDF fired approximately 1.3 million bullets and rubber bullets.

According to the New York Times, Textmany in the Arab world, including Egyptians, Palestinians, Lebanese and Jordanians, point to Sharon's visit as the beginning of the Second intifada and derailment of the peace process………….

This Second intifada is directly responsible for the war that is currently ongoing. It is the result of the shared experiences amd beliefs of two groups of people who have thousands of years of history over this tiny speck on the planet.

For all these reasons i believe that the 35 acres that make up this religious site is the fundamental reason for the Arab-Israeli conflict.


Solomon's Temple : William j. Hamblin & David Rolph Seely
The End of Days : Gershom Gorenberg

[edit on 5-1-2009 by drock905]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by drock905]

posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:16 PM
Awesome history lesson!! Thanks for posting it! Personally, my view (even though I subscribe to Judaism) is that things should be left as they are until we are ALL notified otherwise by G.d Himself.

To tear it down by the hands of man will only cause more turmoil and blood to be shed and obviously that is NOT what we need more of.

(Just my .02 for what it is worth)

posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:20 PM
reply to post by drock905


Thank you very much for the history lesson. I must admit I knew very little of the reasons behind all the madness. I think I understnad all sides a little better now.

Peace to you


posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:27 PM
Nice post mate. A deeply enjoyable read!

Star & Flag!


posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 09:11 PM
That part of the world needs a huge enema.

I've often wondered if there was a huge earthquake, destroying the temple mount, dome of the rock - those places where people are fighting over 2,000 year old rocks and bricks...if that was removed, maybe the religious wars (mostly that's whats is going on...muslims vs everybody else) would stop?

Remove the root of the myth and maybe the myth will go away?

It's sad that religion is/has been the root of most of the bloodiest of wars including the ones that are going on now.

posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 07:43 AM
reply to post by drock905

While everything you write is true (and very informative!), I'd think that the Temple Mount is hardly the FOUNDATION of the conflict. At the moment there seems to be a much simpler "This is my land! No this is my land!" foundation.

Religion is certainly used to exacerbate the situation, so much so that I sometimes wonder if there isn't some sinister forces in the background specifically attempting to egg on everyone to the point of armageddon.

For example, one of the conditions that allow muslims to go to all out war, that is a military jihad (where they are supposed to be aided by all other muslims) is "'Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members.' Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter". While I think the 'Sacred Mosque' mentioned here is the Ka'aba in Mecca, it is interesting to note the severe restrictions placed on Palestinians who wish to go to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Of course, there was fighting going on way before that.

On the Jewish (and for Christians who support them) side are the various verses in the Bible promising the land to the Jews (and the extreme actions allowable to take it forceably if necessary).

Both sides can have their clergy incite people using these arguments (and they do), but I don't think that is the foundation of the conflict.

posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 12:41 PM
Great topic and very comprehensive posting drock905, it truly looks like an informative one which is very refreshing. Watching the "History" channel a few times made it evident that their focus was not unbiased history. Wikipedia is hit or miss on information as well. These details really fleshed out a lot of things I'd only gotten bits and pieces on before. Although it seems clear to me there's a strong link, I can also see bablyoi's point also. I do believe though, if the Temple Mount comes under seige/destruction for any reason, it would be a good time to ensure you've told your family how much you love them and be ready for our Creator. The hope is that we're doing this daily anyway.

posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 08:45 PM
I agree with the OP. Beautifully said. I believe that if this holy site is destoryed or if even a single piece of dust is disturbed, there will be HUGE ramifications, and rightly so.

posted on Jan, 6 2009 @ 09:19 PM
your right...
it couldn't be the desires of militant, make-a-name for themselves, they are 'secular' men with a Jewish mother...
using the religious trappings and influences the Jewish masses hold dear, to generate acclaim & support for their warrior actions.

i protest that the zionists in-charge don't give a hoot for the religious ceremony or traditions... they care about making a dominant state for posterity to live in - almost exclusively
but the zionists in charge, will not discard the Temple & Sanhedren issues
to reinforce their policy actions... and draw both Jewish and Christian support and leeway concerning their tactics

posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 07:46 AM

Originally posted by kaspermartyrphantom
I agree with the OP. Beautifully said. I believe that if this holy site is destoryed or if even a single piece of dust is disturbed, there will be HUGE ramifications,

Althought I agree here,

Originally posted by kaspermartyrphantom
and rightly so.

This is where I'd like to put an exception into "rightly so" in the case for Christians. It is contra-Biblical to fight over any possession, land included:

"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." - Matthew 5:39-42

"If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic." - Luke 6:29

Why is that?

"Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." - John 18:36

"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal." - Matthew 6:20

"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love." - Ephesians 4:2

There's more of course, but these are some poignant verses.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by saint4God]

posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 12:16 PM
reply to post by babloyi

I totally respect your view and those are all valid points, but in my opinion the fighting and posturing over The Temple Mount became the symbol for Jewish occupation and Arab claim to the entire holy land. Both groups are so obsessed with this land that this became the start of tensions many years ago.

posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 12:26 PM

Originally posted by wiseone11
That part of the world needs a huge enema.

I've often wondered if there was a huge earthquake, destroying the temple mount, dome of the rock - those places where people are fighting over 2,000 year old rocks and bricks...if that was removed, maybe the religious wars (mostly that's whats is going on...muslims vs everybody else) would stop?

Remove the root of the myth and maybe the myth will go away?

It's sad that religion is/has been the root of most of the bloodiest of wars including the ones that are going on now.

The fighting may seem silly to outsiders but to the people who are directly involved with its the furthest thing from silly.

Its the only conflict I can think of that has it roots going back to antiquity that is still relevant in the modern world. After 1500 years is it really any wonder how much passion people have for the topic on both sides?

I'm not justifying wars and attacks, but when you look at it from the ancient roots you see how both sides can kill over it and feel justified.

I would imagine that if The Temple Mount was destroyed the tensions would get even worse. The Muslims have control of the site because there are Islamic structures there. If they were destroyed I think there would be huge blattles over who would control it and what would be built there, like The Third temple. Which will be built in The Messanic Era or "the end times." As I understand it.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 06:27 AM
Good stuff, but Muslims surely aren't silly enough to believe Muhammad ascended to heaven when we know he died of an illness. We even know where he's buried. We could dig him up and perform a disrespectful marionette dance with his skeleton, if we wanted.

I recall reading that basically, the Muslim claim to Jerusalem came from political turmoil within the caliphates. One leader owned Mecca, and another didn't, and he prohibited citizens from the rival caliphate from performing the hajj, so the other caliph concocted some stories revolving around Jerusalem to give the Muslims a reason that it should be important.

Otherwise the Muslims have absolutely no spiritual claim to Jerusalem at all. It's almost like a kid running after the older boys claiming to be an equal in the big-boy club.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 07:50 AM
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

The story of Muhammad ascending to heaven is separate from the occasion of his death. According to Islam, Muhammad ascended (and came back down from) to heaven in the year 620 AD. Muhammad died in the year 632 AD.

As far as I can understand, Muslims have a spiritual/traditional/religious/historical connection to Jerusalem. Before they started praying towards Mecca, they prayed towards Jerusalem.

However, I've never heard any Muslims claim right to Jerusalem because Muhammad ascended to heaven from there. NOBODY (Jewish, Christian or Muslim) can (or should) use such an excuse to lay claim to a piece of land. That is absurd.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by babloyi]

posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:15 PM
reply to post by babloyi

The idea that religious claims over Jerusalem is the foundation of Jewish and Muslim conflict is utter tripe. It is about occupation and ethnic cleansing. To declare religion as the source of conflict is a tactic to equalise both parties.

Palestinian Christians and Muslims object strongly to their homes and town being taken over by a hodge podge of Europeans and Americans suddenly turning up and making their lives a living hell.

Look at what they did to this old lady.

[edit on 042828p://pm2813 by masonwatcher]

posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:02 AM
Just wait until the first red heifer is born in Israle and then you'll see what the temple mount is really about. There are already unconfirmed reports that a red heifer has been born but i dont know if its been substantiated.

posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 07:47 PM
reply to post by princeofpeace

I remember reading about a Texas millionaire who is funding a genetics lab with the goal of engineering a pure red heifer for this purpose.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by drock905]

posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 10:47 PM
If you know any Muslim or Arab world people -or have lived there for any amount of time- this subject comes up but with a whole different 'foundation'...
the name ISRAEL (prevailing to GOD), and otherwise the offering of the firstborn Ishmael and sacrifice of a provided sheep instead of a ram in place of Isaac.

The location Jerusalem is not named in the Quran despite its long well known status, and most of Islam don't see it as especially central or important unless in the History.
Significantly the greatest Biblical sites are all held by Arabs and aren't at all occupied nor hardly recognized by the Jewish state (New Judaea).

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