WORLD: Fanatical Muslims vs. The Free World

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The premise of this thread is that fanatical islam - which is rather widespread among the average joe (or should I say the average mohammed) - is incompatible with our society of relative freedom.

I'd say absolutley not.

In Pakistan the 'islamic government' still execute people for not
mindlessly conforming to the state religion and in Saudi Arabia violent 'religious police' brutaly intimidate and harrass people who do not adhere to the strict religious code.

I dont think many people in these countries had a 'choice' of deciding to join islam but I agree that it will never be totaly compatible with the West as the religious mindset demands absolute subservience and
'slavishly conforming to groupthink' doesn't usualy sit well with enlightened freethinkers.

Also the way some islamic countries treat women is truly inexcusable and would never be tolerated in a free and open society.
The only way islam would fully intergrate the west is by conversions by the sword....

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by pieman

the first map just shows that isreal is surrounded by countries in which a lot of muslims live.

Thereby putting the popular notion of "Israel the Big Bully" into perspective.

the second map shows countries with more dubious than normal internet access, allegedly. overall, most of the people living in these areas, by a long, long way, are not muslim. so it doesn't support your point of view.

The countries happen to be either muslim or communist. Certainly just a coincidence?

the third map you posted has no key, it means nothing at all.

Its a "human rights" map from wikipedia. Oh...and again...the enemies of Israel dont look good on that map.

From the posts Ive read here in the last weeks, that must mean that "zionists control wikipedia".

reply to post by Skyfloating


Your major failure is equating "fanatical" with "Muslim"

You are displaying what your government no doubt would have you believe, that it is all about the "big bad Muslims"

Idiotic, simplistic and blatantly ignorant.

How about discussing terrorism and Human rights without mentioning religion at all?

America has spent the last 8 years stripping human rights and civil liberties from citizens. Just because no international body is brave enough to declare the American regime as corrupt and dictatorial, doesn't make it much better.

And if you want to talk about states sponsoring terrorists, just take a look at American history, specifically the KNOWN practices of the CIA. Gaia only knows what disgusting practices they have had a hand in that we know nothing about!

So, before one starts to make claims of moral superiority, take a good look at your own national history and see if it's perfectly clean.


[edit on 5-1-2009 by detachedindividual]

reply to post by detachedindividual


I U.S. Government is not without fault.

But I have to add that I visited Muslim countries and saw the problemlong before Bush came into power and used the issue to justify his war-mongering.

So this is not something my government has brainwashed me with. Its something I found out while talking to the common joe on the street.

"When all Jews are dead, we will have peace on earth" they told me.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Thereby putting the popular notion of "Israel the Big Bully" into perspective.

does it though? how many of those countries on the map have nukes? i mean a six stone kid can bully a room full of quarter backs if he's the only one with a shot gun.

The countries happen to be either muslim or communist. Certainly just a coincidence?

you're wrong, look it up.

Its a "human rights" map from wikipedia. Oh...and again...the enemies of Israel dont look good on that map.

so post a freaking link already, how many times does a link need to be requested before you post it? the enemies of isreal, whomever they're supposed to be, are not highlighted in the OP so you're the only one that has the information to allow comment.

reply to post by pieman


Last time I posted a link for you, you responded that you'd already looked it up and it didnt mean anything. I see no point in posting further links if you've already made up your mind.

Simply type "human rights maps" into www.images.google and you'll find a similar picture anywhere you look.

There are problem countries...which many here say are the "true heroes" and "the enemies of the NWO"...

...and I say they are the enemies of the free world.

There is nothing "rubbish" about that. Its just an opinion that is different than the broad jew-bashing consensus here.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
There are problem countries...

[...]

...and I say they are the enemies of the free world.

Dare I ask how you think this 'problem' ought to be dealt with, Skywalker?

Originally posted by Cadbury


Dare I ask how you think this 'problem' ought to be dealt with, Skywalker?

For example by teaming up with what I call "enlightened muslims"...the moderates.

Those are the people we need to talk to, support, aid.

And I think getting stuff like the Internet and free-information-flow-for-all will help things along.

In my mind, anything that restricts the flow of information is spiraling downwards...toward the dark side.




[edit on 5-1-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Last time I posted a link for you, you responded that you'd already looked it up and it didnt mean anything. I see no point in posting further links if you've already made up your mind.

the point is to back up your claims with credible sources. i clearly outlined why that particular map meant nothing in the context of this thread, twice.

Simply type "human rights maps" into www.images.google and you'll find a similar picture anywhere you look.

thats just a cop out. you should be able to back up your claims, it's as simple as that.

There are problem countries...which many here say are the "true heroes" and "the enemies of the NWO"...

...and I say they are the enemies of the free world.

There is nothing "rubbish" about that. Its just an opinion that is different than the broad jew-bashing consensus here.

don't try to push it on me, all i've said is that you are spouting rubbish. i'm not even entirely sure which "problem countries" you are on about.

reply to post by pieman


Alright, lets take Israels biggest enemy...Iran (+ Hamas)...obviously.

These dudes are pointing their fingers at how evil Israel is. They are publishing anti-jewish conspiracy-theories all over the place.

But when we look at what they are doing to humans, they have no right to point fingers.

Its really as simple as that.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by pieman

 

Simply type "human rights maps" into www.images.google and you'll find a similar picture anywhere you look.

okay, found your map here and followed it to the section on your favorite nation on the very same site, just for kicks and giggles. this is what they have to say.

Human Rights abuses are rampant in Israel. Until recently, torture was legal and the security forces routinely tortured political detainees, most of whom were never charged with any crimes.
*snip*
Israeli forces continue to arbitrarily detained hundreds of Palestinians on "security" grounds. Hundreds are put under administrative detention, without being charged or sentenced, in violation of internationally protected due process rights. Some are kept in prison for years without ever being charged. Hundreds more are sent to prison for political reasons following trials that do not comply with international due process standards.
*snip*
Dozens of Lebanese are also being held in administrative detention in Israeli-controlled Southern Lebanon. This includes men, women and children. Some have been in prison for over ten years without charges.
*snip*
Israeli security forces have also engaged in extra-judicial executions of Palestinians. Those responsible are very rarely punished for their crimes.

it's all a bunch of sunshine and bunny rabbits, huh?



EDIT: reply to your post above........ is this about fanatical muslims vs the free world or iran vs isreal, because quite frankly i don't think either of those countries is particularly in any position to point any finger in any direction.

[edit on 5/1/09 by pieman]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

I U.S. Government is not without fault.

But I have to add that I visited Muslim countries and saw the problemlong before Bush came into power and used the issue to justify his war-mongering.

So this is not something my government has brainwashed me with. Its something I found out while talking to the common joe on the street.

"When all Jews are dead, we will have peace on earth" they told me.

Someone else on a recent thread here tried to pass off the danger to the world from fanatical muslims by saying that they amounted to only 1% of all muslims. I responded that 1% of the estimated 1.6 billion muslims in the world amounts to a huge army of 16 million fanatical muslims spread around the world where they can without warning wreak terror on the innocents as they seem to love to do.

That seemed like a huge number to me. Even if you seriously discount the number of fanatics, you still end up with millions of them.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
For example by teaming up with what I call "enlightened muslims"...the moderates.

Those are the people we need to talk to, support, aid.

That's a far more peaceful answer than I thought you were going to give, for some reason. I honestly thought you might say something like "kill them with death!" for a minute there.

And I think getting stuff like the Internet and free-information-flow-for-all will help things along.

Yes. I think that's a good idea myself – as long as it's not forced on anyone who doesn't want it. The internet can be a valuable learning tool, but also a powerful disinformation tool. Pieman noted that several countries on that internet map are not Muslim, and they're not all attacking Israel or the 'free world.'

In my mind, anything that restricts the flow of information is spiraling downwards...toward the dark side.

As an absolute?

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm not sure how posting a map of which countries have laws against "marital rape" ties in with fanaticism. Or which ones have governments that control information on the internet. You will have to explain that one to me.

If your intentions were to post which countries have extremists or fanatics, your map should have looked like this:

Note: Countries in blue have extremists/fanatics.

reply to post by pieman


Well done. I appreciate a proper rebuttal.

And yet...do some traveling. Travel to Israel. Then to Palestine. Then to Jordan. Then to Syria. Then to Lebanon. And maybe to Iran. Despite the violence-in-war committed by the USA and Israel, on a normal-citizen-not-in-wartimes level there is a free world and a non-free-world.

Originally posted by Cadbury

That's a far more peaceful answer than I thought you were going to give, for some reason. I honestly thought you might say something like "kill them with death!" for a minute there.

Naw....just providing the other side...since 80% of all threads on the subject are overflowing with hatred of jews and apologizing fanatics as "heroes".

At the end of the day, Im not cool with either of the sides.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Naw....just providing the other side...since 80% of all threads on the subject are overflowing with hatred of jews and apologizing fanatics as "heroes".

Well, if I must be honest I've seen a great many posts and more than several threads in favour of Israel as well. Many stars and all the works. I certainly wouldn't say they amount to only 20% of the total.

reply to post by DJMessiah


Some with a tendency to more extremism and some to less.

Originally posted by Cadbury
As an absolute?

Good question. No, not as an absolute. Only in general.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by DJMessiah

 

Some with a tendency to more extremism and some to less.

Or some countries' extremists the media tends to focus more on than others.