Ammo Problem?

Got home yesterday and took my Glock 19 out of the holster and on a whim decided to clean it. I dropped the magazine out and pulled the slide back to clear the chamber and nothing happened. I was a little surprised as I always leave a round in the chamber so I racked the slide again and the case from the ammunition popped out, minus the bullet. I looked down the chamber and could see the bullet lodged in the barrel. After locking the slide back and dislodging the bullet with a cleaning rod, I examined the gun and casing but was unable to find a problem.

I had the thing loaded with Federal Hydrashocks and have never had a problem with the ammo. Any ideas? Bad crimp? The gun is cleaned often and shot often and the ammo was only recently put in the clip. I'm glad I caught this before it became a problem and won't be using the ammo from that box anymore. Anyone else ever have this happen?

[edit on 4-1-2009 by Raustin]

I was out with a friend who was the training officer on the local SO and he had to clear a Glock 19 that had the same problem except the bullet did not pull out of the case. I think that this was also hydra-shock ammo. It sounds like the bullet had engaged the rifling. May have to due with the ogive on the ammo. I do not know if the hydra-shock is tapper crimped or not. Try blacking the end of a round, chamber it and then look for indications that it is contacting the rifling.

reply to post by waterdoctor


Good idea.
Thanks for the reply and the info.

Glock 19...is that not a 9mm parabellum or 9x19mm as it is sometimes called. The point here is does this calibier not headspace or seat on the rim of the brass...just like a .45 ACP???

Dont know what weight of bullet you were carrying in the ammo but if the bullet ogive engages the lands it can tend to jam the bullet on the rifling in the barrel. If the bullet does not seat deeply in the brass ...it can become weak and seperate over time. Probably by the rattling of constant carry.
This does not happen in my .45 ACP Colt. I will however make note of it as this is the first case I have heard of such seperation.

This would be very bad in a carry weapon..anytime.

I am surmising you have alot of unburned powder floating around in your gun and it needed cleaning.

Ammo that headspaces on the rim is not crimped as is say....a .357 or a .38 Special. The cases remain crimped merely by seating the ammo... The friction of seating the bullet in the brass case is what holds ammo which headspaces on the case rim. There is no inside roll of the casing out where the bullet enters the brass as is done in .357/.38 ammo.

Interesting story ..I will ask around at the gun club to which I belong. I have not heard this story before. Most of the time, however, My carry weapon is a revolver..hence it is not an issue with me.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I also have not heard of this problem with Glocks. Sometimes the primer doesn't ignite and for a few moments you don't know if you have a hot one or not. In your case I'd try different ammo, for sure.

A friend of mine is a Weapons Instructor with the LAPD and has extensive knowledge and use of all Glocks. Bought me a "27" for Christmas, oops for "the holidays", and the two of us will be out at the range later this week. I'll ask him about it and get back to you.

reply to post by orangetom1999


The ammo is the Federal Hydra-Shok 124 grain. The Glock 19 does use 9mm ammo. I clean this gun quite regularly, and it had been cleaned two weeks ago after a range session. It was still clean as a whistle, just wanted to break it down and make sure as I have been carrying it more than the Kimber lately. I've never heard of this happening, and was pretty shocked to see it. As you said, not good in a carry gun. I tend to think it was just the ammo, and not the fault of the gun. I racked a few clips through the gun and everything worked flawlessly. Looks like I'm back to the Kimber until I get to talk to a gunsmith.
Oh well, I like 'em both. Plus, my fiance thinks the Kimber is sexy.

Edit to add: Thanks Oldnslo, I would appreciate it, just saw your post. How do you like that 27? I've been thinking about picking one up. I need a 'summer gun'.


[edit on 4-1-2009 by Raustin]

Raustin,
I am inclined to agree with you. It is this brand of ammo.

As a reloader I am sure that say..the 147 grain ammunition has more bullet area seating down in the case neck verses the 124 grain of which you speak...and thus a tighter fit.

In my .45ACP I am using 230 grain bullets which gives a generous amount of bullet down in the brass case...meaning again a tight fit.

Also in reloading .357/.38 ammo..when I load 125 grain bullets there is also once again not much bullet down in the case neck verses the heavier 158 grain bullets I favor. These design cartridges also have a crimp on the very neck of the case as they are not headspacing on the case neck. However..this is not a problem in a revolver as it is a very different design from the auto you are describing.

Yes I agree ..it is most likely the brand of ammo.

Would be curious to know the results of yours and the inquiries of others on this matter.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by Raustin


It can happen if the bullet is not seated far enough into the case, also with bullets that are shaped a certain way. I have had this problem with the hydra shok ammo and glocks.

I reload my own stuff, and you can get more velocity by seating the bullet a little "long" but if you go to far the bullet gets rammed down into the case by the rifling, when you chamber it. This is dangerous because if you rack the slide the bullet can stick in the end of the chamber. Also if you load it "long" with more powder and the bullet gets slammed back into the case, you can get extreme pressure that can blow your gun, and hand, and maybe face to kingdom come.

Get out your calipers Raustin and measure over all length and diamiter on the rounds in the clips you already have loaded. Its very possible that recoil and the possibility that the bullits used where of a smaller diamiter like .356 rather than.359 let the bullits slide out a bit in the case, engaging the rifleing and pulling the bullit out. While fireing it would not have been noticed because the round would go off normaly, Not squib in the barrel. Had a problem with .45 acp that way once. Since the Colt designed rounds in ACP pistols have no crimp and seat on the mouth of the case it doesn't take much to actualy pull the bullit if the bullit is sub diamiter and the case sized just a thou or two larger than normal!
Zindo.

Wow Zindo...

I hadnt thought of that ..the bullets may be smaller in diameter than the required loadings.

Off the top of my head I believe 9mm is about .355 diameter.

Goodness me...what a nightmare..to have bullets which would come out of the brass if jostled to much due to rough carrying etc..or even normal carrying...only to fail at the moment of truth. This could definitely cause one to swear off a particular brand of ammo.

This could be a quality control problem.

I will remember that Zindo about using my outside mics or dial calipers to check if I ever run across such a problem.

Interesting also that Downtown436 has also experienced this problem. Noted!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 4-1-2009 by orangetom1999]

Since some here are talking about reloading and my remarks in my last post, I thought that you should know that even good reliable commercial reloaders can have problems.

The frst part is how the damned media announced it and then the real story. the damned media localy never corrected the outright lies they published.

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Person shot at Cheshire shooting range

Created On: Saturday, 27 Dec 2008, 4:59 PM EST

Cheshire (WTNH) - A person was taken to the hospital after what police call an accidental shooting at a firing range. It happened at New Departure Fish and Game Club at 625 Cook Hill Road.

Few details are available right now, but police call it an isolated incident. Cheshire police said the injured person was taken to Yale New Haven Hospital.
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In another article in the New Haven Register it was claimed the person shot himself in the hand.

Neither of the above articles can be retrieved from the appropriate websites.

The Reality: The "accidental shooting" was in fact a catastrophic failure of the firearm. The injured shooter was shooting offhand the first round of the day from a friend's Marlin 1895 .450 cal scoped rifle with reload rounds. The friend was an experienced reloader having done work for others and PDs. Upon firing, the gun literally exploded. The forearm disintegrated, butt separated from the receiver, barrel separated from the receiver, the feed tube was found several feet in front of the firing position, and the barrel exploded banana peeling in three segments. The shooter experienced severe damage to his left (forearm) hand severing an artery with pieces of the forearm inbedded. There was no loss of fingers. Investigation was made by Cheshire police and the firearm sent to the State Police for investigation. No determination has been made as to the reason for the firearm failure. While this may be called an " isolated incident" any occurrence of this type is extraordinarily rare.

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Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Zindo, I have heard of revolvers not being able to 'revolve' because people use a load that essentially pulls the bullet out of the case due to recoil. Is what you're saying the same sort of thing? These rounds were brand new, out of the box. Recoil would have had no effect on them as they were never in the clip while firing. That, and alas, most of my tools were stolen after moving into this house. I have no calipers! Thank you for your help my friend, you always make good points.

Raustin,
Then take one out of the box and get your pliers and see how easy it is to remove the bullit. Chances are if it is a size problem more than just one will be loose. Where you shooting single shot loading one at a time? Because with this problem I mentioned it will happen with autos and revolvers. Recoil is recoil and the mag takes alot of it!

Zindo

Thought I would give a little update. Took the gun and the ammo to the gunsmith up the road. He took a quick glance and told me that the bullet was misshapen. Essentially, when I racked the slide the bullet stuck and the extractor ripped the casing off the back. Basically what you guys said. No fault of the gun and he told me to keep using the ammo, just not that box. Guess he's never heard of it happening with this gun/ammo combo either. Thank God this didn't turn out worse for me, bad stuff in a carry gun! Thanks for the help guys.

OK, from now on, stop arguing with us and just follow orders. Now pardon me while I turn on CNN and get my daily dose of Obamamania indoctrination!!!

Zindo

Raustin - Went to the range with my bud from LAPD and discussed your situation. Understand I am only relaying the info I was given. If some of it is redundant, I apologize. So bear with me.

He was concerned with the fact your Glock did not extract the cartridge as Glocks have "a very aggressive extractor" and personally has not had an extraction problem with a properly chambered cartridge, unless the cartridge was defective. He questioned whether a .40 cal round could have been mixed up in your box of ammo and clip feed into the chamber. A 9mm Glock will accept a .40 cal. cartridge and leave you with the situation you experienced. I told him this most likely was not the case.

"Ask him to examine the caliber of the ammo. It should read 9mm parabellum. Not 9mm "Luger" or .40 cal. If it was the proper ammo, then the only other possibility was that the bullet was not properly seated during manufacturing, which would leave the bullet slightly longer in length. That would be a one in a million shot!

Another possibility exists that when you initially racked the slide back and released it, it could have driven the already chambered cartridge forward enough for the bullet to engage the rifling in the barrel and therefore "stick" and when the extractor pulls out the cartridge, it leaves behind the powder in the chamber, and bullet stuck in the barrel. Same with the wrong caliber.

He says, normally when a cartridge is chambered in a Glock, it "rests" in the chamber, not held tightly, until its fired and only then does the bullet travel the initial 1 1/2- 2mm to engaged with the rifling of the hex barrel on the Glock.

He also says Federal Hydro-Shocks are outstanding personal protection ammunition as they're basically Black Talons. The only reason he does not use them as they are against department policy and are mandated by law to carry a different round.

I hope this adds to the discussion. Though I don't have a lot of experience with hand guns, the member of LA's finest that gave me this information says he has fired in excess of 250,000 rounds in all kinds of Glocks and as a LAPD Firearms Instructor, this would be a very good source of information.

As an added note about Glocks. When LAPD was approached by Glock about switching over, one of the selling points was that it takes very little oil after cleaning. I think its 6 drops total. (So much for the "Keep Your Weapons Oiled" posters hanging from the walls in every station around the country) So he took a Glock 17 left by the rep, cleaned it, and proceeded to fire 2,500 rounds with the un-oiled weapon. Not one misfire, no extraction failures, no slide problems, no problems, period!!! That's what I call dependability. Something to think about when purchasing a hand gun!!!

Good luck Raustin on determining what was the problem. I hope I was of some help.

reply to post by Oldnslo


Thanks for the reply and asking your buddy. I had actually determined the problem if you look two posts up, but I really appreciate the time you put into the response. I was unaware that a 9 can accept a .40, and am glad you mentioned that as well.

To Zindo, I will not argue ever again.