Ventilation?

Air, We all need it. But how do we take a filthy poison containg atmosphere and turn it ito Breathable air? I have put quite abit of thought into my dream home/underground bunker/Bat cave and one of the things I am unsure of is how to keep a reliable source of O2. By reliable somthing easy ro maintain, because value may not only lead to contaimination, there is potential for Co2 build up, which quite honestly, scares the crap out of me. since we are on th topic of ventilation what about a mobile unit. mabe somthing to purifi air in a car or camper? any ways what have you guys come up with to solve the problem o breathable air?

Check out the links below

squirrel cage filter

AND THEN

homemade double action plywood piston pump

Ime tired so I hope that's helps

[edit on 3-1-2009 by angryamerican]

reply to post by The_Smokeing_Gun


Ever heard of a duplex system..or a duplex filter. It is a means of having a filter which can be put on line while another filter in parallel can be changed out with a new filter. Ive seen these systems for use in fluids. No reason one cannot be adapted for air.
This is similar to how an air dryer systems works. One tower is heated and off line..out of service...while the other is in service and drying the air.
They are parallel systems. Both sides need to have the ability to be valved off..isolated from the main line and the other side.


OR you design a single line system which can be isolated from the outside enviornment....preferably by being valved off. YOu are counting on the compartment having enough air in it to sustain till the filter in this single line system can be changed.

Most ventelation systems which have valves in them use butterfly flapper type valves which can give secure isolation from other areas of the system. However..depending on how big your system is in diameter ...you could possibly use a large gate valve/valves.








[edit on 3-1-2009 by orangetom1999]

Thanks alot guys. Is there anytng out there te generates oxygen? I have always been curious whether a green house could produce enough oxygen for 4-5 people to survive. I know The masks thatdrop down in a plane durring a sudden decompresion generate oxgen but from what I understand not fo very long and they generate alot of heat.

I dont know if they still use them but the navy has some kind of chemical used in portable self sustained breathing apparatus..which generates oxygen by chemical means. Also dont know how long the chemical reactioin lasts. THey used to use them on submarines.

My immediate reaction was to suggest electrolysis of water but there are major problems with that. first off in less you had unlimited supply of water you would use it all up for breathable air. Second is when you break down water in that way things can tend to go boom with the first little spark.

My second idea was the same as Tom but it sounds expensive if you can even find the proper parts and chemicals.

This is a tuff one. I will do some research and try to get back to you on this.

reply to post by The_Smokeing_Gun


I was watching a documentary on NASA recently and they mention that they use the compound Lithium Hydroxide to take the CO2 out of the air aboard the orbiter

Is this stuff available for civil use to build a homebrew air scrubber?

edit:
a cheaper option may be to invest in a set of 2nd hand scuba tanks and mouthpieces to be kept fully charged and ready for emergency use.

An average tank will hold 15litres @ 3000psi so would enable an individual user at least an hour of breathable air allowing enough time to either escape to a safer area or deal with the environmental threat



[edit on 4-1-2009 by citizen smith]

Ventilation itself seems to be the easiest of the issues to address. You should be able to find or construct filters to bring in and purify regular outside air. The only problem then would be if the outside air mix was dangerously imbalanced or lacking O2 all together. If that is the case, it likely isn't temporary and outside of a government project, long term survival is not likely.

At an individual level, I would be more concerned about concealment of the ventilation, to prevent my bunker from being found or destroyed. Additionally, having the means to monitor the air levels inside, or overall outside conditions without having to leave the shelter. Anyone know how to address these issues?

lithium hydroxide..if it is the stuff I am thinking about is nasty stuff. The stuff I am thinking about is in fact used in a scrubber. You need to wear a respirator and gloves when loading the stuff in a scrubber. It looks like Tasters Choice coffee..in granules. If you get close to the stuff without a respirator ...it will literally gag you ...you cannot breath unless you have the proper breathing gear. Very nasty stuff.
This is the stuff I've seen used in submarine scrubbers. Nasty.

The problem with the air canisters..I described previously is that it is a chemical substance..in a can with a type of heavy duty pop top like a soda can. Like all chemicals it has a shelf life. This would have to be taken into account. Expense verses shelf life.

Wolf321 is correct in their post. Concealability. One can camouflage their filter system..the inlet filter holder...with some careful thought. THe question is how much filter do you need and the availability of replacement filters.

I have worked in glove boxes...like the stuff you see on the X Files where Scully puts her hands in the gloves in the sealed up box. These boxes have hepa filters on them capable of holding back radioactive contamination. This is the type of set up you need. Scale it properly by manufacturers volume informations for the area you will be ventilating.

I am not sure but are there not vacuum cleaners now days which use Hepa filters? You also need to know how fine hepa filters come.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by Wolf321


A handheld AA battery carbon monoxide alarm for long-term habitation of confined bunkers and spaces would be a good place to start.

CO will kill you before you've even realised it's too late, and could arise from something as simple as a faulty burner on a camping-gas stove

How about the low-tech canaries solution to check for carbon monoxide.
Would they also work for carbon dioxide ?

If you have sufficient light and water then why not use plants . Barring the plants from dying you would have a natural source of oxygen . It would be unwise to pin your entire survival strategy on a single bunker or cave . Aside from the fact you would be putting all your eggs into the same back all bunkers are overwhelmed eventually . Your stock piles of ammo and weapons will be a prime target for what ever enemy you are against .

reply to post by SirHedgehog


who will watch the canary ? if it dies while you are sleeping - 30min late you will be dead too

How many plants would you to generate enough oxygen for sustainable atmosphere?

Originally posted by The_Smokeing_Gun
How many plants would you to generate enough oxygen for sustainable atmosphere?

To tell you truth I didn't know the answer to that question . Thanks to Google it now looks like my idea of using plants to generate Oxygen in a bunker / cave system is impractical .

Now, to answer the second question, how much oxygen do plants produce in an
hour. Actually, I have data for how much oxygen LEAVES produce in an hour: 5
mL. If your average plant has 30 leaves, then that would be 5 ml/leaf x 30
leaves = 150 ml/plant/hour. So, if an average person needs 53,000 ml (53 l)
of oxygen per hour, and the average plant produces 150 ml per hour, then
53,000/150 = 353 plants.

Source

I cant 100% vouch for the above figures but on the other hand I have no good reason to doubt them either . Perhaps you could look at growing some of your own food underground but that is another topic .

I have considered using standard size furnace ventilation pipes which come up and U joint down (the intake is thus sucking up or I should say the pipe is pointed down about a foot away from the ground).

Now if your worried about Chemical attack or something this is not for you but for ventilation and even nuclear fallout, this will work pretty well... standard furnace blower to bring in fresh air, exhaust is the same on the other end with the standard vent pipes going to each room on the ceiling.

Next double furnace filters on the U ends..... these are the normal 7-10 dollar allergy / heppa type furnace filters paired... one on the end, the other a few inches above that... should take care of dust, pollen, etc.

This is a much cheaper altrnative both with materials and filters and unless your expecting overpressure or chem, this is a good system.