Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by Robin Marks



Out of curiosity, what would you recognize as "harmonic tremors" and why? What physical factors are at play to cause those harmonics?

What experience do you have reading seismic signatures? Does it go beyond this forum?

What are your referenced "phantom quakes", and does this phrase mean anything beyond the idea that you don't personally know the source of those signature?

The first volcano I planted my butt atop, doing seismic work, mapping, geochemical analyses, and risk assessment, was Kilauea, Hawaii, in 1983, with 9 other USGS geologists.

Originally posted by Trip3
reply to post by Robin Marks

 

Out of curiosity, what would you recognize as "harmonic tremors" and why? What physical factors are at play to cause those harmonics?

What experience do you have reading seismic signatures? Does it go beyond this forum?

What are your referenced "phantom quakes", and does this phrase mean anything beyond the idea that you don't personally know the source of those signature?

The first volcano I planted my butt atop, doing seismic work, mapping, geochemical analyses, and risk assessment, was Kilauea, Hawaii, in 1983, with 9 other USGS geologists.

edit on 23-2-2011 by Trip3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2011 by Trip3 because: (no reason given)

well then,. welcome to ATS,.
Nice to have you here as another person that knows what is going on and can
help with the explanations of how things work,.

reply to post by Trip3


Umm, I've been watching the Yellowstone webicorders everyday for over two years. I've located the origins of prominent swarms, like the January 2010, even predicted it would happen on Dec 28 2009, here on ATS on this thread. You can backcheck it. I recently gave everyone a head's up that Arkansas was going to go haywire just last week. I watch those webicorders as well. I'm no expert but I've research what a harmonic tremor looks like and I've never seen one on the Yellowstone webicorders. And if I happened to miss it, about five other people, who I like calling the Quake Geeks would see it. We're not professional geologist but we have done our homework and know a quake when we see one. I can now even identify when they are blasting mines to the east. Show me the harmonic tremors.

And I emailed the YVO to correct them about the start of the January swarm of 2010, they had the start date as the 17th. I had been watching carefully and noted the start to be on the 15th. They corrected their site not long afterward.

I've even come up with my own hypothesis. Water induce eruptions. Here's my experiment to demonstrate my scenario.

www.youtube.com...

What do you think/

Here's some new research that supports my ideas.

www.cbc.ca...

Sorry, you also mentioned the phantom quakes. The telemetry was apparently getting iced up and the computer was generating false quakes. Which were listed then deleted. Puterman has all them on file. I just call them phantoms because they weren't real quakes.


Also, I asked you to show me the harmonic tremors. I looked and didn't see any on the webicorders on the 25th.

reply to post by Trip3


Can I ask what exactly was the point of your post? You come on a month later and claim this happened, is it to warn us or what? Were you involved in these "closed door" meetings? It sorta seems like fear mongering to me.

reply to post by Trip3


Trip3

Thank you for your insight!
Somebody needed to share the inner workings that have come in to play over the last couple years.
Hopefully, someday the truth will be available - even if never publicly shared

reply to post by Trip3


Thank you for posting this information - it has long since been my belief that were anything to occur at the caldera (and it will) that the those residents of the U.S., would be the last to know. My belief is that it's yet another way of maintaining power and control over the people they govern, but truly care nothing about - and it's not limited to just the US but all world governments. That's a whole other story though...

Again, thanks.

reply to post by Robin Marks



Robin I respect your enthusiasm and interest. However it should be recognized that "quakes" and "quake swarms" do not have the same significance in different geologic environments. The low level quakes seen at New Madrid, to me, represent a good thing, in that they demonstrate the fault zone equalizing stress along its length. As such there is less of an opportunity for a sizable quake in the New Madrid area. I personally believe the government's recent focus on New Madrid is a distraction from the real concern, Yellowstone, and doing so in a place which is the furthest reach of the ash-outfall from historic Yellowstone eruptions - the Mississippi River. Some recent scientific studies seem to think New Madrid is no great threat

Harmonic Tremorsare not the big, obvious seismic signatures some point to , but rather the small squiggly cigar-sharped "packets" narrowing at either end and broader in the middle, seen throughout the entire day's seismogram on January 25th (YSB -Soda Butte Jan25)(YMP - Mirror Lake Plateau ) (YLK - Lake Butte)

These harmonic tremor signatures are what caused a team of USGS senior scientists to engage unscheduled field activities at Yellowstone on January 27th, and undertake a seismic refraction mapping of the magma chamber(s) with more than 8 feet of snow on the ground and two storms that came through.

Two similar Harmonic tremors are seen clearly in the first 1/4 and 2/4 of this USGS definition of Harmonic Tremors, seismogram segment shown below:



Here is Mt St Helens, seismic Station RAN, April 2, 1980, from which the USGS extracted a segment for the "Harmonic Tremor" definition:


(Image source USGS Mt St Helens)


Harmonic tremors are non-localized seismic events that represent a magma (or fluid or gas) traveling through constricted conduits under positive pressure, with the harmonics dependent on the viscosity, the diameter, and the rate of flow. Harmonic tremors are non localized becaue they are not a singular even occurring at a singular location, they have no initiating p-wave, but rather are similar to a "hum" through organ pipes, or by blowing over the top of a soda bottle, conveyed by the body itself.

As stated, Harmonic Tremors are a function of viscosity, conduit size (those "organ pipes" ) , and flow rate.

More specifically they are represented by the Reynolds Number:

Re = μd/v

Reynolds number is broken down to, flow velocity (v), a measure of the characteristic dimension of the flow (d), and "v" which is kinematic viscosity of the fluid (shear or dynamic viscosity divided by density), v = Л/ ρ .

The paper paper, below, goes on to describe the "d", dimension of the flow, as "Depending on the flow geometry, the characteristic dimension may be the cross-section of an obstruction, the diameter of the flow conduit or some other length parameter." It also goes on to compare the harmonic tremors to "eddy shedding", or cavitation.


Reference:

"Physical models for the source of Lascar’s harmonic tremor" (PDF)
Published: Journal of Volcanology and Geothermal Research 101 (2000) 183–198
M. Hellweg
Received 10 October 1999

*** ETA: Why aren't the image showing? Is it someting to do with my "noob" status here?"***

Maybe it's just me, but I don't buy it. I don't care what he claims. He could call himself or herself deepthroat if you want protection. I'm sure I could be convinced if someone present their case in a different way. I'm sorry, but their were no harmonic tremors, a geologist would know that there was nothing on the 25th. Show me the money.
Show me harmonic tremors.

reply to post by Trip3


I looked at the webicorders for the days to which you refered, they always looked like that. That's not harmonic tremor. And when you look at the links you provided, those are harmonic tremors and they are nothing like the readings you've posted. Where's Puterman? He's the techi.

I read all the webicorders all the time and I've learned what all the signatures look like. I can tell you when they're plowing the roads. I can tell you when there's mining nearby. I can locate the windest part of the park. And I can with very good accuracy detemine the location and the size of the quakes that occur regularly. I use YMR the noisiest of all the webicorder to watch quakes from around the world. The interfence you see on those days can be found on off and on and have been occuring over the last two years. It's too regular to be harmonic tremors.

Originally posted by ashleys27
reply to post by Trip3

 

Can I ask what exactly was the point of your post? You come on a month later and claim this happened, is it to warn us or what? Were you involved in these "closed door" meetings? It sorta seems like fear mongering to me.

edit on 23-2-2011 by ashleys27 because: (no reason given)

I post on another forum particularly targeting politics, however, I've a background in "anomalies" going back to 2000.

On that other forum there were general discussions on "strange world events" and I was brought a seismogram from Yellowstone and asked what I thought of it, as I am known to be a geologist and geophysicist. To be blunt, I just about **** myself. And then began to employ a series of contacts with others specifically attached to USGS and Yellowstone, which put me into an uncomfortable position of knowing details I cannot say, as these would cause that avenue of communication to be entirely shut down, along with possibly much more severe implications for persons involved.

Since then I've tried to get a known spokesperson to appear on Coast To Coast AM. While he initially was very enthusiastic about doing so, even though he'd be reversing a position expressed in a recent appearance there. he quickly became cold on the idea once I impressed upon him the severity of the events and what might ensue. I'm referring to not only government repercussions, but also panic in general populace, and perhaps even collapse of the stock market.

reply to post by Trip3


I'm just curious to whether you have read all 667 pages of this thread. If you did, then you wouldn't be questioning Robin's calculations...Just saying...

Here's the most sensitive webicorder in the park. It picks up everything. I've written to the park and found that this station is near a maintence building. You can see the plows on it. You see every quake from around the world on it. Yet, when you look at January 25th, you see nothing. Except noise, and real quakes. There is no hum, no harmonic tremors. If there were tremors in the park, this webicorder would pick them up.

www.isthisthingon.org...

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Trip3

 

I looked at the webicorders for the days to which you refered, they always looked like that. That's not harmonic tremor. And when you look at the links you provided, those are harmonic tremors and they are nothing like the readings you've posted. Where's Puterman? He's the techi.

I read all the webicorders all the time and I've learned what all the signatures look like. I can tell you when they're plowing the roads. I can tell you when there's mining nearby. I can locate the windest part of the park. And I can with very good accuracy detemine the location and the size of the quakes that occur regularly. I use YMR the noisiest of all the webicorder to watch quakes from around the world. The interfence you see on those days can be found on off and on and have been occuring over the last two years. It's too regular to be harmonic tremors.

Ok,even if i dont have much experience with this Stuff,i have to say and ask you something about that.

One: How do you/we/anyone know how HT´s look like at a Super-Volcano?
Two: How do you/we/anyone know how long HT´s show before a Super-Volcano erupts?
Three: After the Activity lately (including the Deformation,the Swarm Early 2010),isn´t it possible that HT´s over Months/Years are normal for a Volcano the Size of Yellowstone before an Eruption happens?

I ask this because,Experts know how HT´s look on the Average Volcano,but on Super-Volcanos? Not much experience...I wouldn´t be so quick as to dismiss them.

One Question Robin,PuterMan. Do they look/sound like HT´s?


Those are meant to be serious Questions,not personal Insults or anything.

reply to post by Shenon


Trip3 provided links which show harmonic tremors. And one of them shows Mt. St Helens. That's what they look like. The signatures that trip3 is pointing to are too regular and are interfernce. I've seen them many times. And at fist they bugged me. Puterman could give you the techincal explaination. The wiring is not my concern or interest. I've learned to read. I've learn to read the webicorders and recognize everything, including the mine blasts which are really wierd. Shirakawa first pointed them out. I've even learn to recognize the ice cracking on the lake.

If I saw something that looked like harmonic tremors. I would recheck and recheck and ask Puterman or the others whether they were seeing the same thing and ask for a second opinion.

reply to post by Trip3

Harmonic Tremorsare not the big, obvious seismic signatures some point to , but rather the small squiggly cigar-sharped "packets" narrowing at either end and broader in the middle, seen throughout the entire day's seismogram on January 25th

Sorry, epic fail! If you are really a geologist you would know those are NOT harmonic tremors.

Want to hear what those signatures are? Here you are: Harmonic tremor NOT!

That is raw completely unfiltered sound straight from the SAC file with no processing at all. It is telemetry interference.

Real Harmonic Tremor

reply to post by PuterMan


I'm exhaling now. I need that. A good laugh. I've been so absorbed with Arkansas and trying to stop a bigger lie. I need that. Ahhh. Epic fail. That's one of the few web words I like. Play the demon voices again, you missed your opportunity on page six hundred and sixty six.

forgot the little faces, i rarely use them. for me it's about the writing

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Trip3

 

I looked at the webicorders for the days to which you refered, they always looked like that. That's not harmonic tremor. And when you look at the links you provided, those are harmonic tremors and they are nothing like the readings you've posted. Where's Puterman? He's the techi.

I read all the webicorders all the time and I've learned what all the signatures look like. I can tell you when they're plowing the roads. I can tell you when there's mining nearby. I can locate the windest part of the park. And I can with very good accuracy detemine the location and the size of the quakes that occur regularly. I use YMR the noisiest of all the webicorder to watch quakes from around the world. The interfence you see on those days can be found on off and on and have been occuring over the last two years. It's too regular to be harmonic tremors.

I've read the data back years. They don't always look like that at all..

Well to be blunt, if you're watching YMR station, then you're making a big mistake and wasting a lot of time.

WMR is a poorly placed seismic station at a bottleneck in the park. During the week it has the snowcoach tours and the peaking of activity at midday at WMR station. Vehicle engines can indeed look quite a lot like pronounced harmonic harmonic tremors even with "chugging", the explosive de-gassing of magma as it rises from depth. But that's not what we're seeing. There's even a regular patrol of some sort that comes through at sometime after midnight. Seismic events don't operate on a regular schedule.

I've seen the telemetry crackles, your "phantom quakes", that look like p-waves at various stations, as they're covered with ice. And they can indeed even look quite a lot like the seismic refraction charges set off the morning of the 28th, but they're not the same.

I've seen the generator kick in throughout the day at the LKWY station and recognize it for what it is.

I've seen the signatures of bison approaching and passing a seismic station, and while it looks quite a lot like a clastic avalanche, it's not the same. I also know what wind looks like at a seismic station.

I do know the difference, and when I don't have some idea, then I find out.

Here are numerous other seismic stations that do not show any sign of Harmonic Tremors on January 25th:

YMR: www.isthisthingon.org...
YFT: www.isthisthingon.org...
YPP: www.isthisthingon.org...
YML: www.isthisthingon.org...
YNR: www.isthisthingon.org...
YUF: www.isthisthingon.org...
LWKY: www.isthisthingon.org...

No Harmonic Tremors.

Once I actually am able to display an image in posts, I'd be happy to show you what specifically happened during those "quake swarms" that you referenced, in January of 2010, and also December of 2008... and in so doing impress upon you how grave the situation is at Yellowstone. This magma chamber(s) have been aggressively expanding well beyond the existing caldera margin.

This is not a damn game. While I an not a volcanologist, I am a geophysicst and have spent some time doing seismic work on a live volcano, and sleeping less than 1/4 mile from an active vent. I know what ongoing harmonic tremors look like from an active eruption and flows. I also routinely employ other remote survey and tomographic methodologies, inclusive of seismic refraction, ground penetrating radar (GPR), magnetometry (mag), electro-magnetometry (EM), resistivity, and others. I consult private industry and the U.S. military almost equally. As a result of my my geophysics expertise being a non-intrusive survey method, I have extensive involving dealing with military toys that go "bump in the night."

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Shenon

 

Trip3 provided links which show harmonic tremors. And one of them shows Mt. St Helens. That's what they look like. The signatures that trip3 is pointing to are too regular and are interference. I've seen them many times. And at fist they bugged me. Puterman could give you the techincal explaination. The wiring is not my concern or interest. I've learned to read. I've learn to read the webicorders and recognize everything, including the mine blasts which are really wierd. Shirakawa first pointed them out. I've even learn to recognize the ice cracking on the lake.

If I saw something that looked like harmonic tremors. I would recheck and recheck and ask Puterman or the others whether they were seeing the same thing and ask for a second opinion.

Bolded (and fixed) the important Part. Just to make sure: So you are saying they look like HT´s? Did you compare those Signatures with those from other Super-Volcanos similiar to Yellowstone?

Im asking this because saying they are too regular and are interference is a dangerous thing to say,because we don´t know what is normal for these things.

reply to Robin
Thats what I love about you Robin, you and Puterman, you always back up everything with facts. And calm down my friend, all of us older members that have been following this thread for years, know that you are well versed and knowledgeable in the topic of Yellowstone and earthquakes. LOL Keep up the good work!!!

edit on 23-2-2011 by kennylee because: (no reason given)