The Lost Civilization in Tibet

Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval have assembled a plethora of evidence linking the Great Sphinx to the constellation of Leo, the lion, They have also shown that the Egyptians were knowledgeable of the constellation of Leo, and depicted it as a lion on the Dendra zodiac.

Part of their hypothesis is that the Sphinx, along with the pyramid complex, indicate the time of Zep Teti, the fabled 'Golden Age' when the gods walked the earth. Utilizing the alignments of the pyramids to Orion and Sphinx to Leo they can pin-point the time as 10,800 B.C., roughly the time of Atlantis recorded by Plato.

There is another famous lion statue in that area of the world: the Lion of Kea.

The Lion of Kea is located on the island of Kea, off the coast of Greece. Goethe wrote of the mysterious statue "The Lion of Kea is the only prehistoric trace of a vanished civilization that was great geography and remained so psychobiologically, that of Atlantis".

www.in2greece.com...

www.greece.org...

Jean Richer discusses the Lion of Kea at length in Sacred Geography of the Greeks, uncovering that it's body is aligned with the summer solstice. The Lion of Kea, which could be seen to symbolize Leo, would then indicate the time when the sun was in Leo, at around 4400 B.C. Richer also discovered that the Lion of Kea's head was turned, directing it's gaze across the ocean toward Egypt.

Around 4400 B.C. saw a rise in activity in the city of Abydos, where archeological evidence has uncovered an early temple at this age dedicated to the dog deity Khent-Amenty, an early incarnation of both Osiris and Anubis. Khent-Amenty was the guardian of the underworld, which seemed to have been believed to have been located just west of Abydos.

Vincent Bridges, a researcher into ancient astronomy/astrology and other esoteric matters, shows that Khent-Amnety was represented also as a lion-headed deity in addition to the dog, making it notable that this cult flourished in the time of the solstice sun being in Leo, around the same time as the Lion of Kea. Vincent Bridges takes his hypothesis further, indicating that Khent-Amenty itself represents the constellation of Leo. This would indicate a relationship with the Sphinx as well.

John Major Jenkins raised an interesting issue about the sphinx in his book Galactic Alignment, while talking about the alignment of the Sphinx and Leo indicating the time of Zep Tepi:

And so we have the time, but why should we assume that Egypt was the place? Perhaps the Sphinx is not only pointing to the at the time of the fabled Golden Age, but the place as well?

This would certainly seem logical, based on the direction of the Lion of Kea looking to Egypt. John Major Jenkins demonstrates that if you draw a line from the Sphinx, it passes into the far east, passing closely by Mt. Kailas, the holy mountain of the eastern religions, but you also come to Lhasa, the sacred city of Buddhism.

Mt. Kailas is an interesting mountain, as it is viewed by the Hindus and Buddhists as the embodiement of Mt. Meru, the mountain at the center of the world that is the place of creation:

It is said that the Sacred River Ganga that flows through India tumbles down from the heavens to the Earth falling first onto the head of God Shiva to soften the impact. In this legend the mountains of the Himalayas are Shiva personified. The melting snow from the mountain peaks form rivulets that consolidate into the major rivers that fall thence to bring life to the arid plains below. Most holy of all the rivers, the Ganga is considered pure and sacred, a holy Tirtha - meaning water sanctified by the touch of a God, in this case God Shiva, the ancient name for one of the Trinity. According to legend, Shiva resides at the renowned Mount Kailas also known as Mt. Meru (or Sumeru in ancient texts) - the center of the world, and the most striking and unique mountain in the highlands. A glance at the topography of Tibet will show how, more than any other peak, Kailas stands uniquely at the center of the region.

Mt Kailas is unique in that it rises up from the highest point of the Tibetan Plateau, like the hub of a giant wheel. From this hub four mighty rivers form and flow in four different directions like spokes radiating outward from the hub of the wheel. Unlike the range of Himalayan peaks to the south, Kailas stands isolated on the Tibetan highland so that the pilgrim can walk around it in less than a weeks time. The mountain itself appears like a great symmetrical domed temple coated with ice and snow, shining white and dominating the landscape in all directions around it.
To further enhance the symbolic mysticism of the mountain as a sacred place, two lakes are situated at the base of the mountain. The higher lake, Manasarovar, is round like the sun, and a lower lake Rakastal is the shape of the crescent moon. The two lakes represent the solar and the lunar forces respectively. The inner consciousness of man (the solar force) is often compared to the Manasarovar lake. When the thoughts of the mind are stilled, the reflection of the higher Buddhic mind and Atmic awareness is seen. Manas means Mind in Sanskrit. The crescent lake, Rakastal partakes of the lunar or dark forces and this is reflected in the name which comes from Rakshasas or demons; beings who are totally under the sway of the lower desires and impulses (ie lunar forces).

The outside world knows chiefly of the tallest peaks of the Himalayas - Everest, Annapurna, and the like which the egoistic mind of the modern age is motivated to "conquer" by ascending the summit. But the ancients, the religious pilgrims, and the devotees of Shiva pay homage to Mount Kailasa in a much different way - by circumambulating the sacred mountain. They would never dream of desecrating the home of the Gods by setting foot on the mountain, much less attempting to climb to the summit.

www.cosmicharmony.com...

Other websites on Mt. Kailas:

www.angelfire.com...
www.livinginthelightms.com...
www.pmgeiser.ch...
www.iras.ucalgary.ca...

www.sacredsites.com... says about the sacred lake of Manosaravar:

Pilgrims to Kailash, after the difficult journey getting there, are then confronted with the equally arduous task of circumambulating the sacred peak. This walking around the mountain (clockwise for the Buddhists, counter-clockwise for Bon adherents) is known as a Kora, or Parikrama, and normally takes three days. In hopes of gaining extra merit or psychic powers however, some pilgrims will vary the tempo of their movement. A hardy few, practicing a secret breathing technique known as Lung-gom, will power themselves around the mountain in only one day. Others will take two to three weeks for the Kora by making full body prostrations the entire way. It is believed that a pilgrim who completes 108 journeys around the mountain is assured enlightenment. Most pilgrims to Kailash will also take a short plunge in the nearby, highly sacred (and very cold) Lake Manosaravar. The word 'manas' means mind or consciousness; the name Manosaravar means Lake of Consciousness and Enlightenment. Adjacent to Manosaravar is Rakas Tal or Rakshas, the Lake of Demons. Pilgrimage to this great sacred mountain and these two magical lakes is a life changing experience and an opportunity to view some of the most magical scenery on the entire planet.

The lake, for me atleast, brings to mind the sea constructed next to the temple of Solomon, believed to represent the primordial waters of both the creation and of the deluge (not mention that King Solomon's Temple was built on Mt. Moriah, which seems to be related to Mt. Meru), but the word Manas, at the root of Manosaravar, also brings to mind Manu. Manu was a god mentioned in Vedic literature whose story parrallels that of Noah.
Lhasa is also important, being the sight of many pilgrimages for Buddhists and Hindus. It's their most holy city, and is known as "The Place of the Gods". What is the significance of the line connecting Giza with these two sacred sites?
www.imperialtours.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
In the Eastern religions, we come across a deity that preforms essentially the same role as the Sphinx: Shishis. These lion-like creatures stand guard in front of temple complexes. Most interesting is the fact that the Shishi is considered a composite of both the dog and lion, which instantly harkens back to Khent-Amenty, the Egyptian dog/lion that represented Leo.
To make matters more interesting, I came across this Japanese folktale at www.thecarvingpath.net...:

In the old days of the Japanese there was a madanbashi village that had a problem with a monster who would come onto their island and eat their livestock. One day the king came to visit the village with his guards. The village men decided to fight back. A wise and old woman named Chiru told the king to 'hold out his kara-shishi and the dragon will be sure to retreat.' The king held out the charm (netsuke) and loud lion noises came from the kara-shishi and a giant wave sent the monster back into the ocean. Then a giant boulder came from the sky and pinned the monster underwater. This tale comes from Naha, Okinawa, Japan where I was born. It may be unbelieveable but that is the tale. It is said much better when it is written in depth... but that's what I have from memory.

Giant boulders from the sky... giant waves... celestial cataclysm?
Check this from Professor Arysio Nunes dos Santos's article Corroborating Evidence on the Reality of Atlantis:

Makrisi, a famous Arab historian of Egypt, affirms that "fire issued from the sign of Leo to destroy the world." This conflagration apparently confirms the above connection between the star of Dendera's zodiac and the Atlantean cataclysm disclosed by Plato. The Arabs conquered Egypt, and inherited its magnificent culture and traditions, and it is quite likely that Makrisi was basing himself on them.
A Coptic papyrus indicates the same date for the Atlantean cataclysm. According to it: "the Flood will take place when the heart of the Lion (Aldebaran) enters the start of the head of Cancer". In other words, the papyrus affirms that when the vernal point coincided with the center of Leo - an event that took place some 11,600 years ago - the Flood took place, destroying Atlantis and ending the Pleistocene Ice Age, which had lasted for some 2.5 millions of years. In the terrible event, a great many species of mammals and other creatures became extinct all over the world. This fact attests the universal character of the tragedy.

(cont' below)

From www.npr.org... :

"There are many sites in upper Tibet belonging to this early time -- this pre-Buddhist period -- and they were largely forgotten during the Buddhist period as culture and values changed," Bellezza tells Chadwick. "I've been looking at these sites trying to visit all of them... and photograph them, measure them, and collect stories related to the site, myths and legends that the local people tell."

Bellezza says the evidence of ancient civilizations is often hidden in plain sight. A ritual burial site, for example, might have thousands of rock pillars marking graves -- but the pillars are so weathered by age and exposure that they look like part of the landscape.

"Many of these sites... have been abandoned, no one lives there any more," Bellezza says. "It's kind of like entering a time warp, leaving the modern world behind and entering a world that's no longer populated -- but its monuments remain, its stones are there for us to see and measure and to try to understand the kind of culture that gave rise to them."

Scientists now believe that thousands of years ago, the upper Tibetan plateau was warmer and wetter, enough to support agriculture and give rise to citadels. But the region very gradually turned cold and arid.

"Because the region was so marginal to begin with, it didn't take much to put this civilization over the edge, and it came tumbling down," Bellezza says. "And now only its monuments are left -- the nomads have maintained some of the cultural traditions, but none of their old glories have survived there with them."

And from www.unspecial.org... :

The eyes on the temples of Nepal fascinate. They are not in the traditional form of the sun’s eclipse or of Egyptian deities, nor are they human eyes. They are drawn in all Buddhist stupas and many Tibetan temples in Nepal. I asked many who lived in or visited Nepal what is their biggest impression, and the answer was always – mountains and eyes. Three explanations of the eyes predominate: the most common is that they represent the all-seeing eye of Buddha (all-seeing, because there are in fact four pairs of eyes turned North, East, West and South). Alternatively they are the eyes of the sun and moon. A third, more general, explanation is that these are the eyes of wisdom. What is really strange is the form of these eyes. Where in all other eyes as symbols the pupil is round and fully opened, on the temples in Nepal the pupil is not only half covered, but the form of the upper eyelid has a strange and unusual shape. Why this shape? Fantasy of the painter or were they painted from real per- sons?

and later:

Recently, I came across a book containing an interesting analysis by the Russian ophthalmologist Ernst Muldashev(1) who dedicated a large part of his research to the importance of the eyes in understanding of the roots of civilization. Muldashev noticed that one eye parameter, i.e. diameter of cornea, is invariable with all persons throughout the whole life (as from age of
4), and proposed system of calculations based on the cornea as constanta value to show identity code of individual. Since all other parameters and characteristics of the eye are variable (e.g. the size of the eye, the dimension of its inner and outer angle), he decided to create measurements in geo- metrical way, to calculate all possible variations in combination with constant value of cornea and to trace some relationships. He established a system of lines of projection of the inner and outer angles (tan- gents), crossing them in the area of fore- head and bridge of the nose and forming several rectangles, usually bigger one with smaller ones inside (see figure). On the basis of the various mathematical relations of these lines – a system, which he called ophthalmogeometry – he came to certain conclusions about the interdependence of internal (character, psychic state, health) and external (facial features). Further, he applied the complex ophthalmogeometri- cal formula and given parameters to the eyes of different races and geographical zones and received data for each of these. He supposed that all eyes should have common ancestral eye, or basic eye, or root eye from which eyes of different races are derived, for that he decided to calculate average, or “median statistical eye” from all complex data received. The result corresponded to a typical Tibetan eye. Thus, he concluded that Tibetan eyes might be the primary eyes, and he sup- posed that if Tibetan eye is at the origin of all other eyes, it would mean that the roots of civilization could be traced back to the Tibetan and nearby region, covering some of northern India, Nepal, as well as part of Tibet itself, roughly the Himalayas.

We can see more possible connections between Egypt and Tibet/Eastern countries in their knowledge of precession. The Egyptians certainly seem to have knowledge of it, with the constellations of Orion and Leo functioning as "markers" to record the time and place of Zep Tepi, the first time. Giorgio De Santillana and Hertha Von Dechend's Hamlet's Mill certainly seems to indicate a global awareness of the precession of the equinoxes in various cultures, which was encoded into myth. The Hindus have the four ages, known as "Yugas", that seem to be based on an understanding of the science of precession. In 1894, swami Sri Yukteswar Giri released a book called The Holy Science (discussing the relationship between the Bible and Hindu belief), in which he unveilved a new interpretation of the Yugic cycle, this time more based on precession. cycle-of-time.net... covers his version in depth and its relationship to the precession of the equinoxes. Here's a quote from it:

In re-examining the diagram above we can see that the last descending Dwapara Yuga started around the year 3100 BC. This corresponds with the beginning of the Dynastic period in Egypt. But how did this civilization in Egypt start? What happened before 3100 BC? No one seems to know. As John Anthony West wrote in his book, Serpent in the Sky:

...every aspect of Egyptian knowledge seems to have been complete at the very beginning. The sciences, artistic and architectural techniques and the hieroglyphic system show virtually no sign of a period of 'development'; indeed, many of the achievements of the earliest dynasties were never surpassed, or even equaled later on. This astonishing fact is readily admitted by orthodox Egyptologists, but the magnitude of the mystery it poses is skillfully understated, while its many implications go unmentioned.

How does a complex civilization spring full-blown into being?....The answer to the mystery is of course obvious, but because it is repellant to the cast of modern thinking, it is seldom seriously considered. Egyptian civilization was not a 'development', it was a legacy.

If it was a legacy from an earlier advanced civilization then this would tend to substantiate the diagram above. But a legacy from how long ago?

The Four Yugas correspond to the four "worlds", or "ages" of the Hopis. According to the Hopis, we are now entering the fourth, or final world, which will be a time of both destruction and spiritual rebirth. This would be the Hindu Kali Yuga, which is believed that we are in now. If civilization began in the East during the Age of Leo, perhaps we need to look at the other side of the zodiac for the end of civilization: Aquarius. Is this an indication that civilization ends in the West?

The connection between the Hopi and Hindu worlds is interesting to say the least. There is in fact, more evidence to suggest a relationship between the two cultures.

Gary David has discovered that the layout of Hopi villages in Arizona mirror the constellation of Orion.

www.theorionzone.com...


He also uncovered a distinct relationship between the Hopis and the ancient Egyptians, based on similar myths as well as languages. But perhaps most interesting of his discoveries is the significance of a chakra line that runs through the center of the constellation's earthly layout. Chakras, meaning "wheel" or "circle" in Sanskrit are centers of spiritual energy in the human body, eight in number, that lead to a higher consciousness.

www.theorionzone.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.sacredcenters.com/chakras.html

If the Chakra line from Orion is continued past Arizona, it eventually heads into the South Pacific, where it intersects Mu'a, the ancient capital of Tonga. At one time Tonga had been a massive empire, trading all over the Pacific ocean and highly sophisticated. It is important to take note that Mu'a is the mirror image of Aum, the sacred syllable of the Hindus representing the "echo" of the creation of the universe (this is an very interesting notion in light of this: www.npr.org...), as well as the sacred name of Brahma, the creator god who lives atop Mount Meru (Kailas, on the 30th parrallel). It could also be viewed that perhaps Mu'a is the root of Mu, the lost civilization written about by Col. James Churchward and Augustus Le Plongeon. Though usually dismissed as nonsense, perhaps it is significant that Churchward claims to have learned the story from monks in India. There is one other association between Aum and the Hopis. In an article by Jack Andrews -www.viewzone.com... - there is the symbol of Aum written in a Hopi petroglyph in Sedona, Arizona.

As mentioned above, the Hopi Orion chakra line intersects Mu'a, but it also point on the horizon to the rising of Sagittarius. Sagitarrius is important to many ancient cultures because it marks the galactic center, the center of the galaxy which is, according to Mayan expert John Major Jenkins, both the crown and root chakra of a galactic chakra system. This would indicate that the galactic center is the origin and end of esoteric knowledge. The Hopi name for the Milky Way, which leads to the galactic center, is songwuka, meaning "big reed", bringing to mind numerous Pacific myths about civilizers surviving the flood on a reed raft), a cognate of which is so'ngwamiq, meaning both "towards the end" and "towards the source". If the galactic center is both the end and source (reflected in the root and crown chakras), then it brings to mind the link I posted above on the sound of big bang echoing which reminds us of Aum. Furthermore, the Hopi word Mu'a translates as "shot in with arrow", certainly invoking Sagittarius, the archer, with his arrow pointing to the center of our galaxy.

On a more terrestrial level, the Hopis claim to be descended from a common "snake clan" who seem to have come across the Pacific ocean. In doing so, they would have certainly came in contact with the Mu'a civilization. The Snake Clan would seem to refer to a group of sea-faring people in the Pacific, identified by Mark Amaru Pinkham and David Hatcher Childress as the "Nagas". The Nagas stem from Hindu and Buddhist mythology, and seem to be related to the worldwide theme of the civilizers being identified as serpents. They are also connected to higher states of consciousness, related to Castaneda's Nagual concept (en.wikipedia.org...). Most important to us is the fact that the Nagas live on Sumeru, another name for Mount Meru. Also, the Nagas are referred to in Tibetan mythology as kLu, and were viewed as the guardians of Potola Palace, in Lhasa. So the Nagas appear in two important sites along the 30th parrallel: Mt. Kailas and Lhasa, also the two most important sites of Buddhism.

forums.atlantisrising.com...

Mod Note: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

The Nagas, it is said, mark the enterance to their city Bhogavati with an ant hill. This could possibly relate to the Hopi myth of "Ant People". The Hebrew word for ant is Nemalah, which is very similar to Nephilim, the fallen angels which seem to refer to the lost civilization. Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas point out that Nephilim seems to come from the Aramaic word Nephelia, which was the name of the constellation of Orion, thus translating Nephilim as "those that are that of Orion". Certainly the shape of Orion could seem to be similar to that of an ant. Most telling is the fact that the Nagas are said to have come from Sumeru (variant of Meru). The main difference is between Meru and Sumeru is that Sumeru is shaped like an hourglass. Or perhaps it should be better phrased that it is shaped like the constellation of Orion, considering that Orion is shaped like an hourglass. This also brings to mind the importance of time, and thus, precession and the cycles of ages in Hindu and Hopi thought.

So we can say we have many different cultures that have interlocking themes, the most important of that is the emphasis on time, precession, and essentially, the end of time and its relationship to the heavens.

For centuries occultists have been saying that the East is the root of civilization, which I believe is something we need to start investigating more in depth. It is most important to learn as much as possible about our origins, especially if we are entering the Fourth World, the Kali Yuga, the Age of Aquarius, all of which represent the end of things. Perhaps it is important to note the role of the galactic center as both the crown and root chakra, or as Jesus said "I am the Beginning and the End". We have much evidence from mythology and esoterica to indicate an eastern beginning, but we must see if archeology can confirm it.

forums.atlantisrising.com...

[edit on 27-12-2008 by Someone336]

Quoting External Sources - Please Review This Link

[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

wow....lots of good information. Thanks for sharing.

I have read your posts, and will now go back through and read your supporting links. But i am subscribed to this thread and will watch it with much interest.

I'm glad all of this info was posted in one place. I'm always telling people to do some research on ancient civilizations and what they share. Some of it is mind-boggling.

Starred and flagged.

Stars indeed and F

Great Thread Op,

Hope to add more in near future just looking at ATS quick this week...

Thank you

Elf.

reply to post by Someone336


Thanks for the long series of posts and putting together all of this information. I'm going to comment on a few items that can be verified by what we know now. I'll leave the more esoteric things to our galumptious Byrd, Cormac, Essan and the famous adoxographist Harte.

First: A correction to your use of the Okinawan myth, a better translation would be

When a certain emissary to China returned from one of his voyages to the court at Shuri Castle, he brought with him as a gift for the king a necklace decorated with a small figurine of a shisa-dog. The king found it charming and wore it underneath his clothes. Now it happened that at the Naha Port bay, the village of Madanbashi was often terrorized by a sea dragon who ate the villagers and destroyed their property. One day, the King was visiting the village, and one of these attacks happened; all the people ran and hid. The local noro had been told in a dream to instruct the king when he visited to stand on the beach and lift up his figurine towards the dragon; she sent the boy, Chiga, to tell him the message. He faced the monster with the figurine held high, and immediately a giant roar sounded all through the village, a roar so deep and powerful that it even shook the dragon. A massive boulder then fell from heaven and crushed the dragon's tail. He couldn't move, and eventually died. This boulder and the dragon's body became covered with plants and surrounded by trees, and can still be seen today. It is the "Gana-mui Woods" near Naha Ohashi bridge. The townspeople built a large stone shisa to protect it from the dragon's spirit and other threats.

An image of the woods that use to be on an island.

The story was 'changed' to make it sound more supportive of a 'mysterious' event. The story, a piece of Okinawan folklore explains why there was a hilly island in a bay. when the correct and undistorted version is shown the mystery disappears.

A Coptic papyrus indicates the same date for the Atlantean cataclysm

Er, what papyrus? Please link to this document. I might note that if it is a Coptic document then it is not ancient and dates to the classical period.

Bellezza says the evidence of ancient civilizations is often hidden in plain sight. A ritual burial site, for example, might have thousands of rock pillars marking graves -- but the pillars are so weathered by age and exposure that they look like part of the landscape.

Yes Bellezza can say that but does he have any proof of his ascertion? They could be ...just rocks. It doesn't take long to confirm a civilization existed - a few days of field survey and the odd test pit....

Bellezza says. "And now only its monuments are left

Yes but why didn't this civilization leave any pottery, habitations, stone tools, burial or other signs of its passing? The Tibet plateau, with its cold climate and little vegetation is an excellent place for the preservation of archaeological materials...are there any?

As John Anthony West wrote in his book, Serpent in the Sky:

...every aspect of Egyptian knowledge seems to have been complete at the very beginning. The sciences, artistic and architectural techniques and the hieroglyphic system show virtually no sign of a period of 'development';

This statement is simply false, the Egyptian culture begins as neolithic hunter-gatherers, urbanizes, begins irrigation and slowly builds a culture. Mr. West is conclusions are not based on the available evidence.

Mr. West continues

Egyptian civilization was not a 'development', it was a legacy.

Evidence, real archaeological evidence for this preceding culture? Human cultures leave enormous archaeological footprints. Why is there none for this unknown civilization?

Mu'a

The evidence for a 'Mu' is thin and utterly uncompelling - so how are the Hopis related to a non-existent continent?

You have dropped a large number of well known fringe writers as sources. You do realize that their research ability is highly questionable, and that is a highly charitable assessment.

Thanks again for putting all that together.

Continued below

[edit on 1/1/09 by Hanslune]

I'm unable to find the quote from Goethe, "The Lion of Kea is the only prehistoric trace of a vanished civilization that was great geography and remained so psychobiologically, that of Atlantis".

Could you be so kind as to link to or note it origin?

When you mention Makrisi do you mean, The Arab historian Taqi ad-Din al Makrisi ?

Could you point to the section of his book 'The Road to Knowledge of the Return of Kings,' where this quote/information comes from?

and it is quite likely that Makrisi was basing himself on them.

Unlikely as his sources are known to be Ibn Wasil, Sibt Ibn al Jauzi, Ibn Abd az Zahir plus some others Arabs. Are you stating he had access to original Egyptian source documents? He never claimed nor demonstrated an ability to read ancient Egyptian. In the time he lived during the 14th-15th century the Arabs/Egyptians couldn't read the ancient Egyptian texts. He was primary concerned about and wrote of the crusades.



[edit on 1/1/09 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Someone336


I'm in! S/F and hat is off!

I recommend you try not to be intimidated by Hans. He is certainly knowledgeable but pretty consumed with holding the academic party-line. My advice is answer what you can or will, but don't get dragged into a 'defending West-Bauval-Hancock' urinating contest.

The lines are pretty clearly drawn in this forum as to who is willing to put credence in them (and their peers) as sources. Interesting well-researched threads like this one often die because the skeptics will run you around trying to validate sources they have utterly dismissed.

Keep shining the light!

TWISI

Mod Note: Please stay on Topic – Review This Link.






[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

Howdy Twisi

Long time no read.

I recommend you try not to be intimidated by Hans.

Hans: So Twisi you're saying I'm intimidating because I dare to ask questions and point out what I believe are errors? How is that intimidating? I would suggest its a fine way to deny ignornace and find out stuff.

He is certainly knowledgeable but pretty consumed with holding the academic party-line.

Hans: What is the 'party-line'? Twisi you're not actually suggesting that "academia' all have the same options on all subjects are you? I can tell you secret....they don't, so which party line am I holding?

My advice is answer what you can or will, but don't get dragged into a 'defending West-Bauval-Hancock' urinating contest.

Hans: Yes its best to just to believe everything Hancock and Bauval tell you to believe, question nothing they say, everything they've ever written is 'gospel'. Don't question them, don't do any research, just believe.

The lines are pretty clearly drawn in this forum as to who is willing to put credence in them (and their peers) as sources.

Hans: Yes the people who tend to believe in these and other fringe writers also have a demonstrated tendency not to question what they are told to believe by said writers.

Interesting well-researched threads

Hans: I would question that - oh but you are suggesting we don't actually question that - we should just accept what the fringe writers say? Hmmmm isn't that the opposite of deny ignornance? Aren't you just suggesting to believe what you are told to believe and not to look outside the fringe box?

ike this one often die because the skeptics will run you around trying to validate sources they have utterly dismissed.

Hans: Yes, one should never question a fringe writer's sources - one never knowns what one might find - will one? If one cannot defend the material being put forth, then maybe the premise, the hypnothesis is flawed?

Hans, I swear, it is so easy to get your panties into a twist and send you on a self-righteous tirade . What I was getting at, and what you are trying to do now, is turn this interesting discussion into a "those guys have no validity at all, so your whole line of thought is wrong".

I, and many others here, do not agree that these 'fringe writers', many of them scholars, have no validity at all. There are things I find unlikely about some of the thoeries they put forth, but you dimissing articles here out of hand each and everytime someone uses one of them as a resource for a thread, a thread that reaches far beyond the "Sitchin said" ones (those even irk me) is what I was warning the OP about.

(And what you have baited me into doing...)

OP, come back!

Mod Note: Please stay on Topic – Review This Link.



[edit on Fri Jan 2 2009 by Jbird]

reply to post by TheWayISeeIt


Howdy Twisi

Why is questioning sources inapproriate? You will note that I pointed out the misuse of the Okinawan myth. Why would you want to or desire to have bad data, fradulent data, allowed to masquerade as real? Please explain.

How about that Goethe quote? Is it real? I cannot find it, is it wrong to ask to see it?

What about that claimed Coptic scroll? Why is it you have no interest in seeing it and seeing if it says what it says?

What would be the purpose of that? Self-delusion?

Again you are saying, don't question the fringe writers, just believe.

Sorry I question all sources, science and fringe. You seem to want a truth that is acceptable and comfortable to you while I want the real truth.

[edit on 2/1/09 by Hanslune]

The Lion of Kea/Keos was a delightful thing to read about. I'm afraid, though, that the only ancient civilization it points to is Minoan Greece and it dates to about 600 BC. It was originally part of a stadium!

There's not a lot written about the old fellow -- one charming little myth, and a few works in books on travel. A handful of scholarly references. It's a pity... he's a delightful beastie.

However, he's very clearly Grecian in origin. You can see this same image style on countless blackwork and redwork vases.

(folks, do take a look at him... he's cute and he's smiling! This is the picture I like best of him... makes me want to go out and take a nap with him:
picasaweb.google.com...

At the bottom of this page, you can see him and the shelf that he's slipped down from. The white stones are the local stonework to prop him up and keep him from slipping further... this is modern stonework:
www.greeceathensaegeaninfo.com... )

reply to post by Byrd


Well he is a cute little beastie. I'm a bit annoyed as I was actually on that island for a brief period and didn't know he existed!

I would have stayed an extra day to make his acquaintance.

I'll address your statements in full, but as it is currently late where I live, I'll have to do so tomorrow. However, I can address you questions on Mu/Mu'a. I only Mu in passing, stating that it is generally dismissed as nonsense. I did mention Mu'a, however, as a possible source of the rumours of Mu.

Mu'a was the capital of Tonga, which was

The Kingdom of Tonga in the south Pacific Ocean comprises an archipelago of 171 islands, 48 of them inhabited,[2] stretching over a distance of about 800 kilometres (500 miles) in a north-south line. The islands lie south of Samoa, about one-third of the way from New Zealand to Hawaii.

en.wikipedia.org...

Compare with Churchward's Mu:

Churchward claimed that the landmass of Mu was located in the Pacific Ocean, and stretched east-west from the Marianas to Easter Island, and north-south from Hawaii to Mangaia. He claimed that according to the creation myth he read in the Indian tablets, Mu had been lifted above sea level by the expansion of underground volcanic gases. Eventually Mu “was completely obliterated in almost a single night”[7]: p. 44 : after a series of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, "the broken land fell into that great abyss of fire" and was covered by "fifty millions of square miles of water."[7]: p. 50

en.wikipedia.org...(lost_continent)

Overall, the ultimate point of the thread was my research into the 30th parallel, which runs from the Sphinx's gaze through Kailas and Lhasa, as well as the evidence for a lost civilization in Tibet. Ultimately, all other content is immaterial. However, I will address your concerns.

reply to post by Someone336

Overall, the ultimate point of the thread was my research into the 30th parallel, which runs from the Sphinx's gaze through Kailas and Lhasa, as well as the evidence for a lost civilization in Tibet. Ultimately, all other content is immaterial. However, I will address your concerns.

30th parallel?

This can be found in books of several fringe authors. But you need only a topographic map of Cairo to see, that the 30th parallel runs a good part north of the great pyramid. In fact, it doesn't even touch the plateau the three Giza-pyramids are built on.

The coordinates of he Sphinx are 29'58"34 North and 31'07"58 East
Mount Kialas is at 31'4"0 North and 81'18"45 East
Lhasa is 29'39"29 North and 91'07"01 East

The orientation of the Sphinx is due East so its gaze would pass to the south of Mount Kialas and to the north of Lhasa. If you are using an old fashion 15" globe this and a wooden ruler this might appear as some sort of connection but with google earth the disparity becomes apparent.



I would add that your link goes to a Wiki page on Mu which states

The existence of Mu was disputed already in Le Plongeon's time. Today, scientists dismiss the concept of Mu (and of other lost continents like Lemuria) as physically impossible, since a continent cannot sink nor be destroyed by any conceivable catastrophe, especially not in the short period of time required by this premise. Moreover, the weight of all archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidence is contrary to the claim that the ancient civilizations of the New and Old Worlds have a common origin. So, the very "facts" that the theory was conceived to explain are now seen to be false. Mu is today considered to be a fictional place,

[edit on 3/1/09 by Hanslune]

To the OP,

You should refresh your knowledge of Indian mythology.

Shiva or Shiva pashupathi was a deity of the original inhabitants of the indus valley civilization. They worshiped Shiva pashupathi and had a mother goddess cult too.

The Aryans who came and displaced the original inhabitants of the Indus valley (General consensus is that the dravidians of South India are the displaced inhabitants of the indus valley) took on the deity and added it to the pantheon of gods they had assimilated into their mythology and faith.

Personifying a mountain as mt. kailash is similar to the Jews identifying a particular mountain as Mt. Sinai. No evidence/no proof exists.

Oh but there is solid evidence for Mt. Sinai coredrill. Watch all the youtube videos or websites of Ron Wyatt. In my opinion his info. on Sinai, the crucifixion site, and the Ark of the Covenant are spot on. Sorry to get off topic.


www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Sargoth]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Sargoth]