Madoff Bluff?

www.rense.com...
At first sight it was extremely refreshing. A white-collar financial crook raising his hands and pleading guilty to his financial crime. Th is has to be almost a first. Usually financial criminals when caught in the most obvious of wrong-doing plead 'not guilty'. The criminal can be caught boarding the plane, with a suitcase containing US$100mn of someone elses cash, with his mistress holding on to his arm, he will look into the camera with his most genuine 'Tony Blair look of sincerity' and say "What we have here is a misunderstanding.... " You make up the rest of the excuse, there is a million of them.

So yes, an outright confession, "It was me, I chopped down the apple tree" is so against the current socio-political culture it was almost too good to be true. Especially given the pedigree of this perp, the CEO of one of the busiest and most prominent financial exchanges in the world. After his confession the world goes into shock, especially the Jewish world, since affluent members of this community had previously flocked to his door, seeking his world famous high returns. Since his arrest the press is full of people extolling his virtues as a decent human-being and "who would ever of believed it?". It would be so easy for this man to deny any wrongdoing because he could bring out an army of good character witnesses and he could just point at some suspect-looking goy in his hedge fund organisation to lay the blame on.

So a truly heartwarming confession. And it was apparently made to his 2 sons, both of whom who worked for the fund and who had absolutely no idea that this fraud was being perpetrated, until such time as this astounding confession.

But then I sta rted to look more closely at the mix of investors who have lost money. About half of them are professional investing institutions. Look at this quote from the UK's Daily Mail newspaper (online [link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

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[edit on 23-12-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

hmm excellent insight! I'll have to think more on this.

Madoff Bluff?

A judge has already given his approval in principle for compensation, without any evidence having been presented and financial fraud being demonstrated in a court of law. And it would appear that there will never be such a demonstration in a court of law. Why? It would appear that all the funds financial records are mostly "missing" (rather like Dov Zakheim's US$1.4tn) and those few records that do survive are in a terrible mess.

However, since the guy has pleaded guilty we do not need to demonstrate the fraud, because he says he is guilty.

I linked to that piece this morning MBU...here [THE MADOFF DOUBLE-BLUFF] ...which led me here. While it's possible (only saying; possible) that the author [Muhammad Rafeeq] harbors underlying motives...the above excerpt may hold some merit. A tactic reminiscent of the CITIGROUP mea-culpa back in August...when Cuomo was about to start tumblin' dominoes.

CITI Agrees to Pay Fines and Buy Back 7 Billion in Illiquid Misrepresented Securities

The AP headline below makes Citi sound like Saint Nicholas or Robin Hood doesn't it? Citi was caught with their hands in the cookie jar making consciously false claims for securities which they wished to unload on the public, and then attempting to obstruct justice by destroying evidence. They made their plea bargain to avoid the discovery process and criminal prosecution.

****
AP
Citigroup returning billions to investors
Thursday August 7, 12:05 pm ET"

Full Text

More will be revealed on this Madoff thing...smells like team-spirit at every level.

The site I got it from I didnt want to post on here so I just copied and pasted but the info is still the same and still something to think about. Ill look at your info and post my thoughts.

Ok so it does seem maybe this guy has an agenda for sure. I just went to the site you sent to me. Maybe that is the case or maybe it is the case that because of his feelings he is going to spout out what he thinks which to me makes a lot more sense than the story we are being told to swallow. I bought the story up until I found out these people were being reimbursed. Thats when something clicked in my head. I also noticed how the MSM shut it out in a hurry these people were being compensated from the government. It was on CNBC then disappeared. Lots of powerful people took a bath because of this guy and you said it best it smells like team spirit

Excellent and insightful post. Thanks.

An emergingly complex story, for example there were complaints and serious questions about Madoff put to the Securities and Exchange Commision going back a decade, an SEC whistleblower was ignored, one of their attorney's married Madoff's niece, and more will come out on this. As governor of New York, Eliot Spitzer became aware and was in the process of coming down hard on Wall Street and was taken out, so to speak.

It shouldn't be that simple to falsify information when billions are involved - but apparently it was.

Madoff was a lousy fund manager who let himself become a crook. The SEC, on the other hand, is an official body with responsibilities to prevent exactly this kind of thing. Madoff will be convicted and put away. But the real questions is how far up the food chain the investigation will go.

This one is a real political time bomb.

I veer away from conspiracy notions, but am confident cover-up is the operative word.


Mike F

Originally posted by Jrock2
hmm excellent insight! I'll have to think more on this.

Horse manure. The only reason Madoff had his sons bust him was to save their sorry asses from going to jail to.

JK

Originally posted by mybigunit
The site I got it from I didnt want to post on here so I just copied and pasted but the info is still the same and still something to think about.

...then its all a little bit too close to plagiarism...

LINK HERE

reply to post by leo123


the original thought was that they were all involved and he was taking the fall. It seems that the sons were not a part of the 17th floor offices where Bernie, Frank Dipiscali and a few others ran the business. There's an article in today's journal about the "accounting firm" who handled the audits and Frank Dipiscali. The article implies that these two had to have been involved. Frank was with the firm for more than 20 years and the phony transactions seem to date back about 30 years.

Shaina Madoff is being investigated as well. She is Bernie's niece and she is married to an SEC attorney who twice investigated Madoff (prior to their marriage).

He didn't act alone. I used to think it was impossible but when you look at the way he reported to his clients, it's a miracle he lasted two months. The trades are made up, the reporting looks like it was done in the 40's and, for a guy who was supposedly purchasing stock and writing puts and calls to limit the gains and losses, you'd think there'd be some puts and calls on the statements. He would sell out of the stocks and purchase treasuries and S%P indexes when he wasn't holding stocks. He was claiming 10% on the Treasuries (they were paying 0% at the time) and he was claiming close to 7% return on the indexes at a time when the S&P was down 20%.


Blinding by greed, afraid to say anything, lest you be thrown off the gravy train. Happy to be involved with the legend.

Whatever excuse these people want to use is fine with me. I'm sure, had I been asked to invest, I'd have sat by and ignored the warning signs too as I saw my account grow by 15-20% a year when everyone else was losing that much in a month.

I have seen these statements and been involved with Madoff investors for over 15 years and from day one I thought things were screwy. Anyone who saw the operations, saw the reporting, talked to people inside the firm etc before they invested, was skeptical and many didn't get involved. My dad was in awe of the guy when the first client came to us with an account with Bernie. I was fresh out of college, had no clue who he was and my dad filled me in. Said he was a legend. I couldn't make heads or tails of the reporting. When I asked them for some clarification on a few items they sent me hand written spread sheets. It was a joke. My dad, upon seeing this, said the same thing I said. In his eyes, the legend was no more. We advised that client to pull their money. They left us after a couple of years so we never learned if they left Madoff. when my very good friend and her family came to me, I told them the same things. I spoke with her dad about it all the time. He has been cc'ing me on all emails between him, his accountants and his attorneys. The saddest one I've seen so far was the list of organizations he had to notify with regards to his inability to meet his obligations regarding endowments he had established.


that's a sad side effect to all of this. Many of the investors were very philanthropic. Many charities were destroyed by this. this will impact far more than a bunch of rich NY and Florida residents

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by leo123

 

that's a sad side effect to all of this. Many of the investors were very philanthropic. Many charities were destroyed by this. this will impact far more than a bunch of rich NY and Florida residents

Thats interesting you had friends approached by this guy. Its a good thing you guys didnt get involved with Madoff. I wonder if your friends did get away but now they are saying anyone who withdrew money in the past 6 year might have to give that money back so they still might not be out of the woods yet.

As far as everyone who did lose Im willing to make a bet with you that the people and charities get most if not all of their money back from the government. In fact Ill bet you a steak dinner at any steakhouse of your choice they do. Take me up on it?

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by mybigunit
The site I got it from I didnt want to post on here so I just copied and pasted but the info is still the same and still something to think about.

...then its all a little bit too close to plagiarism...

LINK HERE

Then its called I didnt want to advertise your competition but if you insist I put the link where I found it then I will.

www.godlikeproductions.com...

Is that good enough? I found it at God Like Productions website another conspiracy site. I didnt post the link because I dont want to advertise those guys. But Ill give you a star for your one liner.



[edit on 23-12-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by mybigunit


I have 2 clients who were with him. Their sister, father, mother, family trust, aunts and uncles were all with him as well. all told, I'm guessing their family loss is in the 15-50 million dollar range. I've been deeply involved with the family since this broke, advising them on the tax aspects of recovering losses, feeding them info as I get it and I am, in return, getting emails from the lawyers and accountants they all use.

The first client we had that was invested with him probably got out but this family didn't and the father has said, not to me, that he should have listened to me and a few others, when we told him to diversify and move some money into safer investments.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by mybigunit

 

I have 2 clients who were with him. Their sister, father, mother, family trust, aunts and uncles were all with him as well. all told, I'm guessing their family loss is in the 15-50 million dollar range. I've been deeply involved with the family since this broke, advising them on the tax aspects of recovering losses, feeding them info as I get it and I am, in return, getting emails from the lawyers and accountants they all use.

The first client we had that was invested with him probably got out but this family didn't and the father has said, not to me, that he should have listened to me and a few others, when we told him to diversify and move some money into safer investments.

Will you take me up on my steak dinner bet? I happen to feel your friends will get most if not all their money back via the government. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of that much money being lost. I would off the guy if he did that to me. I just feel the government will compensate the people with most of their money if not all. Also it will not hit the MSM that it happens. You will find it on alternative site because of the outrage it will cause if the people find out the government is covering their losses. Sounds mean but it is the truth. I wish your friends the best of luck and do continue to help them if you can.

reply to post by mybigunit


here's what they've been told regarding the possible recovery.

madoff's assets will be frozen and liquidated to compensate the swindled.
the SEC/Feds can ask for return of all monies received during the last 6 years but they have hinted that they will only go back two years as it will be near impossible to collect on the 6 years of disbursements (hard to track and hard to ask people to return what they no longer have). this money will be redistributed to the various investors.
the SIPC will insure up to $500k of the money but this is not on top of the above mentioned potential distributions.


in calculating the net losses, I am assuming they will get no more than $500,000 back on each account. Is this a lot? Yes. In comparison to what they lost? No.

My cousin's grandfather had one bank account, it was with madoff. He's 88 years old and he lost everything. he can't pay his electric bill. he gifted $500,000 to his grandaughter three months ago so she could buy an apartment. They don't have the money to give back but they will probably have to come up with it.

The only way they'll get their money back is if the SEC is sued (someone filed a suit already) and the SEC loses. They won't. I had raised the topic of a class action suit with the lawyers I've been talking to and they said it was a waste of time. Personally, I don't see how this could be. They've had warnings from people for at least ten years. They investigated him several times and found nothing and yet I noticed oddities in the reporting the first time I looked at a statement.

I'm no lawyer, I'm no expert. I'm just someone who looked at it without looking at the legend it was attached to.

I wasn't blinded by the man's myth sized aura.

Reply to Crakeur

$500k on $30 million in investments is not alot of money at all. Thats a blow in fact. I really feel bad for your friends and family. This guy should not only go away for life but the people he swindled should get to give a few shots to the face of Madoff. I was thinking about the suit against the SEC. I think they would actually WIN if they sued. They were negligent. They are given billions to do a job that they are not doing. People need to realize though there is risk when you invest with people and that is what I dont want infringed. Thats why as bad as I feel for everyone who lost the government shouldnt have to compensate them but a good lawsuit will sort all of this out. I think there needs to be a suit against the government also for not prosecuting ALL of the swindlers out there who instead of getting court dates they are getting billions of dollars. These people have bankrupted our country and all trust we have in it. The SEC should be abolished. It gives people a false sense of security.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by mybigunit


they'll join a class action suit if it ever moves to that stage.

the sad thing is, it will take years for them to see any of that $500k, if they even get it. I saw the list of endowments and charitable pledges that my friend's dad had to back out of. He cc's me on all madoff related things and buried in one of the emails was the list of charities he was contacting to explain his problem with funding his promised monies.


This past weekend I was talking about the issue with some friends. They know a fraternity brother of mine who is also broke thanks to this and I was talking about the fishy statements with the husband who had passed on the offer to be introduced to Madoff a few years ago. He said the same things I said - looked too ridiculous etc.
His wife, who's family is loaded (concert and event promotions), said her dad's foundation lost a fortune. I asked her if he ever looked at the investments and she said no, he had hired people to run the foundation, manage the distribution etc. He basically donated money to it and let them do what was needed with the money and the distribution to various chariites. The folks behind the investment should go to jail. Anyone money manager who was tasked with doing the due dilligence should go to jail. Odds are they were getting kick backs for the investment or they were getting a commission. Hopefully it was paid to them in the form of investment in the weasel's funds. That way, at the very least, they'll suffer the loss of money.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by leo123

 

Blinding by greed, afraid to say anything, lest you be thrown off the gravy train. Happy to be involved with the legend.

I was fresh out of college, had no clue who he was and my dad filled me in. Said he was a legend. I couldn't make heads or tails of the reporting. When I asked them for some clarification on a few items they sent me hand written spread sheets. It was a joke.

I guess I cant understand that level of greed. Sure I would love my meager investments to do well and be rich but that level of rich is beyond my comprehension. Seems the richer you are the greedier you are?? Of course that is a generalization.

If you were just out of college and realized it was crap, perhaps due to inexperience, I don't know, why didn't these others see it. They had all this money and no one to advise them it was crazy?

And he is home on house arrest, wonder what his quality of life is where your friend can't pay his utlities because of him.. They should put him on the street and see how long he would last.

It was very interesting to watch the documentary that was made by CNBC on the scam of the century, many said that after the holidays the full impact of the Ponzi scam will take front page as many of his 25 elite clients were hedge funds with hundreds of their individual clients.

reply to post by marg6043


he had thousands of clients. he only reported that he had 25.

I guess 25 were their "elite" ones but like you said he perhaps has more shady dealings after all.

That is why after the holidays the Madoff case will become center stage.