Religious Ed. Rebellion

Religious Ed. Rebellion

NationalPost.com

MONTREAL -A new religion course taught in schools across Quebec was intended to improve inter-cultural understanding, but so far it is generating deep division as hundreds of parents pull their children out of class.

A high school in Granby, Que., has in the past week handed one-day suspensions to seven students boycotting the Ethics and Religious Culture course on the grounds that it violates their freedom of conscience. In nearby Drummondville, a couple will be going to court next spring with a constitutional challenge to the mandatory course.

The course "is forcing children to learn the content of other religions," Jean Morse-Chevrier, president of the Quebec Association of Catholic Parents, said yesterday. "Therefore it is the state deciding what religious content will be learned, at what age, and that is totally overriding the parents' authority and role."

(visit the link for the full news article)



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[edit on 21-12-2008 by melatonin]

This is pretty sad really. The course is not meant to be religious indoctrination, they generally tend to leave that to parents and religious leaders. One obvious expression of how some parents are more interested in indoctrinating the child's impressionable and malleable mind rather than education.

Is exposing children to other religious beliefs such a threat to faith?

NationalPost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 21-12-2008 by melatonin]

I'm telling ya.... Some people just get stuck.


People of faith who have an issue being exposed to the elements of other faiths are simply not people of faith.

Faith is not based in fear, but in FAITH!

Geesh...

The parents should see this as a good thing as long as they live in a community with good religious leaders because the childrens' faith and understanding will be much improved as a result of the quality of the questions that the child will find themselves asking their community leaders.

No one likes those fair-weather faithfuls!

Jon

reply to post by melatonin


I actually have mixed thoughts about this. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts, but they come down on both pro and con sides of the issue. Mostly con.

I'm all for teaching kids about the differences in society and therefore teaching them acceptance, but on the other hand, as an atheist, I feel religion is a personal subject that should be taught by the family IF it's important to them. Teaching religion in school gives it a validation that I wouldn't want my first grader to be taught.

I also think there are MANY ways to teach kids bout different cultures (music, art, families, activities and other beliefs) without delving specifically into the religious content of different cultures. For one thing, one important piece of the foundation of the culture of the United States is that we are free to practice whatever religion we like, if any. I wouldn't want them learning that "The US is a Christian Nation", for example. Religion and culture don't always map, so I don't buy that this is part of "Cultural Education".

I guess I'd like to see the curriculum.

I, personally wouldn't send my child to public school, but this might seal the deal against it. I wouldn't want my child learning that religion is an important part of life or culture. Especially not in the first grade. I wouldn't want them to grow up with all the hang-ups I had about it. I also wouldn't want them thinking that there's something wrong with his or her family because we don't practice religion.

So. I think I might come down against this in public PRIMARY schools, simply because it's not the school's job to teach religion. In High School and College, I have no problem at all with the schools OFFERING education on religions of the world, but it's not something I think the school should start at such a young age.

There's no need for it as there are plenty of other ways to teach acceptance of other cultures. I think this is an excuse to indoctrinate kids with religious beliefs and "morals" of religion, itself. It's all too like teaching them to be "conformant"... with the assumption that they even have a religion or should have one. Religion itself is indoctrination and I wouldn't want my kid involved in that or taught that it's important.

If people want their kids to learn about religion in school, they can send them to a private school.

The course "is forcing children to learn the content of other religions," Jean Morse-Chevrier, president of the Quebec Association of Catholic Parents, said yesterday. "Therefore it is the state deciding what religious content will be learned, at what age, and that is totally overriding the parents' authority and role."

Why should parents and religious teachers have the monopoly over which religion, if any, their child learns and follows?

Spirituality is a personal relationship between each soul and God.

Teach people about all the different religions no matter whether conventional such as Christianity, Islam or Buddhism or unconventional such as Voodoo, Satanism or Wicker. We should even teach the old systems as shown in Mythology.

Accepted belief systems have changed so little over the years, and they're all practically the same in essence, only their paths, heroes, foes, stories and festivals differ that it really doesn't matter how many are taught. It's more important to ensure non is censored for the sake of another.

Like anything else, if it has to be protected from its competitors then it probably has a lot to cover-up.

And another thing, didn't single mindedness create most of today's problems with extremism? What kind of example are we showing our children when we display ignorance and censorship to them over a couple of words that contradict us? Shameful.

[edit on 21/12/08 by Rapacity]

rough translation :

thier ` faith ` is so fragile that even knowing what other faiths think scares them

how pathetic

Do you guys really think Public School is the place to learn about various religions? With the school teaching about religion, morals, sex and politics, what are the parents for???

Originally posted by Rapacity

The course "is forcing children to learn the content of other religions," Jean Morse-Chevrier, president of the Quebec Association of Catholic Parents, said yesterday. "Therefore it is the state deciding what religious content will be learned, at what age, and that is totally overriding the parents' authority and role."

Why should parents and religious teachers have the monopoly over which religion, if any, their child learns and follows?

Uhm... it really should only be the parents who decide what their children follow. The purpose of teaching different religions in a school should be from a sociological perspective, not from a belief standpoint.

Spirituality is a personal relationship between each soul and God.

Spirituality is a HUGELY different discussion from religious beliefs. Religion is about much more than spirituality.

Teach people about all the different religions no matter whether conventional such as Christianity, Islam or Buddhism or unconventional such as Voodoo, Satanism or Wicker. We should even teach the old systems as shown in Mythology.

I agree with you here.

Accepted belief systems have changed so little over the years, and they're all practically the same in essence, only their paths, heroes, foes, stories and festivals differ that it really doesn't matter how many are taught. It's more important to ensure non is censored for the sake of another.

Actually you will find that the accepted belief systems have changed a lot over the years. Christianity today doesn't look anything like it did 50 years ago, or even 100 years ago.

Like anything else, if it has to be protected from its competitors then it probably has a lot to cover-up.

You jump to a conclusion there which is not really based on anything but assumption. I think there is more to it than a need to cover up. There is a genuine, but juvenile, concern that other religions are actually demonic.

And another thing, didn't single mindedness create most of today's problems with extremism? What kind of example are we showing our children when we display ignorance and censorship to them over a couple of words that contradict us? Shameful.

[edit on 21/12/08 by Rapacity]

Yep... Agreed there.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Do you guys really think Public School is the place to learn about various religions? With the school teaching about religion, morals, sex and politics, what are the parents for???

BH, I do... from two perspectives though.


1. Sociologically. Much like I learned about taoism and Shintoism in social studies, I believe kids should learn about the role of religions today in social studies.

2. Psychology. Compare and contrast the different religious beliefs and what they represent from a psychological perspective.


Now... this is tantamount to taking your religion and viewing it as an object which is equal to other religions, which is what these people are taking issue with.

People love equality until they have to practice it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by melatonin

 

I actually have mixed thoughts about this. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts, but they come down on both pro and con sides of the issue. Mostly con.

Aye, I can see both positives and negatives. Religion already has a priviliged position in society, so why consolidate it? I think the differences come from culture - I'm assuming you're in the US, BH, in most of the commonwealth RE classes are the norm in some form and have been for donkey's years. Whereas, RE in US public schools is not acceptable (amazingly, we tend to have lower numbers of religious and less 'toxic' religion, heh)

However, if our communities do want to give our kids insight into other people's beliefs, rather than leave it to often less than adequate parental guidance (i.e., sometimes bigotted and closed-minded), then it's not a bad thing.

It really depends how schools go about it.

There's no need for it as there are plenty of other ways to teach acceptance of other cultures. I think this is an excuse to indoctrinate kids with religious beliefs and "morals" of religion, itself. It's all too like teaching them to be "conformant"... with the assumption that they even have a religion or should have one. Religion itself is indoctrination and I wouldn't want my kid involved in that or taught that it's important.

Again, as long as it does contain the spectrum of non-belief, then I'm not that concerned. Indeed, I had no issues sending my boy to a CofE school. The issue is that it does depend on how the teacher approaches it. For example, I could see that such a course in rural Kansas might not go as expected.

I did love this quote from the article...

A 2005 law changed Quebec's Education Act and its Charter of Rights to eliminate parents' right to choose a course in Catholic, Protestant or moral instruction, and the changes came into effect last June.

Nice distinction, lol.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
...

Now... this is tantamount to taking your religion and viewing it as an object which is equal to other religions, which is what these people are taking issue with.

People love equality until they have to practice it.

Exactly!

I think taking religion from a dispassionate 'academic' perspective is a good learning experience. Even for kids. The problem is that some parents feel the need to isolate kids from other ideologies, essentially 'locking' their minds in a basement for adequate programming.

[edit on 21-12-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Are first-graders learning Sociology and Psychology, though? I just think it's too young.

melatonin, that's one issue I'm concerned about. The teachers who practice evangelical and other extreme versions of religion in their own lives might see a class full of 2nd-graders as their "project" and see this as their opportunity to bring the little "innocents" to God, because a VERY important part of some religions is to proselytize.

And I don't want my children being preached to.

If we could trust that it was "education only", I wouldn't have as much a problem with it, but I still don't think religion should be taught in primary school any more than sex.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Aye, that is the biggest problem - finding someone who can approach such issues from as objective a position as possible. They can't even do that in science in many places in the US, what chance for a comparative Religion & Ethics course...



[edit on 21-12-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Are first-graders learning Sociology and Psychology, though? I just think it's too young.

You're right. At that age, the difference between myth and reality are just not there.

I was talking school in general. I would agree that these things should or could be taught only when the students are ready to study the things I mentioned before.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


IMHO they are only teaching the FACTS of what other belief systems consist of , ie :

shiek men must wear a turban and carry a ceremonal dagger

etc etc

if people do not want the facts of other religions tought - how anout allowing them to pick and chose the facts of history thier children are taught ?

war of northern aggression any one ???????????????

I think that if they only taught older kids, say 5th grade on, it might bea little better. Itwould be less indoctronation. Granted, at the age of 5 and 6 I was curious about everything under the sun, it's a good thing i didn't learn everyhting i know now then.

On another note, you can't teach cuture without teaching religion. A persons faith plays a big part in their culture. Something like religion that leads large groups of people is important to know in order to understand those people. What you believe says a lot about who you are.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
if people do not want the facts of other religions tought - how anout allowing them to pick and chose the facts of history thier children are taught ?

But the article says the CONTENT of the various religions. It talks about teaching moral instruction and values.

It's not like there are several belief systems about history or math.

Like I said, I'd want to see the curriculum and I don't think this should be taught to grades 1-6 any more than teaching that Santa Clause isn't real to such young children. Leave the myth and fantasy to the family. After 6th grade, I'd be ok with it.

I have compassion for the religious families who are teaching their children in the way they wish (which is their freedom of religion) and the child gets confused wondering which is the true religion. There's plenty of time for that later in life. Not in the first grade.

Edit: There, their, they're

[edit on 21-12-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by melatonin
Is exposing children to other religious beliefs such a threat to faith?

Exposing children to religion in public schools schools is a crime.

I could generalise that to mean exposing children to religion anywhere is a crime, but I won't.

Can we just hurry up and focus on banning this archaic form of manipulation from our education system? Religion has no place in a public school.

You don't bring it up in the work force, you don't bring it up in your education.

You want to talk religion? Do it in your own homes.

reply to post by melatonin

This is pretty sad really. The course is not meant to be religious indoctrination...

...Is exposing children to other religious beliefs such a threat to faith?

you aren't kidding - it is sad

since religion - whatever you believe or don't believe - is a huge chunk of our history - current affairs - our culture, how we relate to each other...we should just remove it?

so, this is also - what? Disturbing, frightening, wrong...

you can't just eliminate it - remove it from the schools - education - it's a part of the world

how is this any different from book banning?

I have a huge problem with teaching ONE religion - but teaching the basics of all religions - that's just common sense

and even explaining the differences to younger children - what better point in their lives to learn that people are different - and that they think differently - and that that's OK?

when better to teach them that they themselves, even as children can think, for themselves - on their own and that the thoughts and beliefs of others don't have to influence their own thinking or beliefs

this is also part of their education - learning how to learn - learning how to think

and how to play nice with others

A high school in Granby, Que., has in the past week handed one-day suspensions to seven students boycotting the Ethics and Religious Culture course on the grounds that it violates their freedom of conscience.

freedom of conscience? give me a break

what are they so afraid of? how feeble is their own belief system that they should feel so violated by knowledge?