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Homes With No People, People With No Homes

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posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


All I need is for you to look at your last paragraph. That is what I am saying.

If you will not allow them in your house because of this why would you allow them in your neighborhood where your family lives and your children play? Plain and simple you know most are criminals and will proceed to do criminal activity. Otherwise allow some to live in your home until they get on their feet. If not they have shelters for people to live until they get on their feet.

You posted in that last paragraph what I have been trying to tell you all along. As for the neighborhood being empty and who will they affect? Well I live in a neighborhood that has another connected to it on all sides. I don’t know about you but I want to keep the crime down in the areas closest to my neighborhood. Why do I bring up crime again? Simple read your last paragraph again and read what I have been trying to tell you this whole time.



Raist



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I don't follow your logic at all.

The homeless people are still in your neighborhood - currently they're on the streets. If this guy came through town, they'd be in abandoned houses instead of out in the cold.

I don't see how their moving into abandoned homes can have any effect on their tendency towards criminal behavior.

I say again - they're already in our neighborhoods. Homeless people are not going to disappear from the our cities and towns if this guy stops finding them places to crash.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by BlackOps719
People who keep looking down their noses and judging these folks havent had the misfortune to have to walk a mile in their shoes...YET.

Regardless how bad thing ever got for me, I doubt very much I would revert to criminal behavior as the solution. Some people may think it okay to steal what they don't have and need, I do not. Theft would only bring me more bad luck, something I wouldn't need more of in such a situation. There is no excuse for theft, not even hunger or homelessness. Maybe such lack of morals is what is keeping some of these people from succeeding on their own.




So you are saying that if you were starving....if your children were starving....that you would rather go hungry than to steal a loaf of bread?


It is easy to claim high and mighty when you have never been forced to make those kinds of tough decisions. These people arent going around killing and robbing people, they are taking up temporary residence in abandoned houses to try and ward off the elements (it is winter time ya know?)

Lets see what happens if circumstances were to put you on the street with nothing and you were forced to fend for your own survival.....stealing would be the least of your worries.

And if you take the do gooder approach here and say that you wouldnt steal to feed your own family then you are either a liar or a seriously poor example of a provider and likely one of the first to perish when things really do hit rock bottom.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Legally, he is obviously wrong. Ethically, he is definitely right. Interesting how ethics and the law don't always agree. Perhaps that is the underlying issue here.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Mark Twain said "Laws control the lesser man.. right conduct controls the greater ones."

He also said something to the effect of 'it's easy to be moral when your belly is full."


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj75

Times are tough..so instead of being made homeless move out and rent for cheaper, trade in the SUV for a small car, stop buying needless things like cigaretts, alcohol, drugs, etc....and focus in on important stuff. I love it when I hear people cry about money and tough times yet have the cash to go to bars/clubs and smoke like a chimney...

Thats not directed towards you ML...I hope whatever is going on in your life right now gets better...just know that you and me both may or already have given up some things to make sure other things stay in tact!!


Thanks, I wish I could move somewhere cheaper that is safe to live. The trouble is that this is a fairly new home mortgage for only around $65,000. We got it when we could afford it.

Also, rentals around here for one to two bed apartments are just about as much as my mortgage. To actually get something that my family of 5 can actually live in without literally tripping over each other, rent would be even more expensive.

Even where I use to rent before I moved, I found out that it went way up. From the only friend and neighbor that I would really talk with because she wasn't into drugs and didn't have a mean attitude.

As for my car, it is totally paid off. It is a small minivan that will hold my family. I really can't downsize from that if we needed to transport everyone. Besides I would probablly end up owning on another car even if it is smaller. Trade ins don't get that much anymore.

We have given up many things. Good luck to you are yours.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


You simply are not even reading the words you are yourself typing.

First this is taking place in Florida where it is cold where exactly?

Beyond that though you are missing the scope of society as a whole accepting criminal behavior in greater amounts and of greater crimes than they once did. We accept this now which is nothing short of stealing and trespassing when before it would have been frowned upon and for good reason.

As for their moving in to these homes affecting their criminal behavior well that can be looked at two ways one it will not cause them to be any more criminal than they already are or they will accept this form of crime and will decide if they can get by with this they could get by with something else.

Again I will say that if we allow these people move into your neighborhood then you allow your neighborhood at risk of greater crime. More so you allow your family to be at risk. You admitted it yourself that many if not most are criminals and drug addicts.

Also I am not sure where you get the idea that my neighborhood has homeless in it, but I can assure you it does not. That is not to say there are not any homeless in my town as I am sure there are plenty. Many of them though tend to go to the more crime ridden areas of town where they can get their fix or in public areas where they can get a hand out. All of those living in my neighborhood work to pay for the homes they live in, even the child sex offender (who I can assure you I keep a very close eye on). We may not have super nice homes or large homes but we work for every square foot of our home.


Also like I have said in numerous posts. I have no problem helping out those who are in their situation through no fault of their own (lost job because of economy). But those who made their own poor choices and have not tried to fix those choices themselves are not going to learn a lesson until they take responsibility. I am willing to help the guy whose job went belly up and he lost his home. But those who decided that doing drugs and losing a job and not working is a great idea need to find a shelter. Also instead of giving these homes to just anyone how about we set the family that was just in the home back into their place of origin. For those who were renting and got evicted because the owner was a screw up or fell behind maybe the banks could set up a rent to own for those families, after all I would bet they were paying the mortgage anyway why not set them up with the house.

I am not so unreasonable that I do not see those who need help, but I refuse to help those who will not try to help themselves. I do not believe in coasting by and living off the coattails of society. I believe in working to get somewhere, it is not as difficult as many would make it out to be. Sure it sucks not getting to have a bunch of super cool things but big deal I have a family that is more important than any object out there.

Heck I don’t even have anything against the police chief who is refusing to evict people any more.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
At least these people have been in the home and you know who they are.

Raist



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by Mystery_Lady
 


we found ourselves in similar positions in the past years....
that nice hud subsidized housing that we don't qualify for subsidizing goes up beyond what our budget can bare, and well......we've found that buying was a cheaper option, and one we could afford. that's why we opted to buy the house we are living in now.....
four bedroom rentals aren't cheap!!

it's insane to give the low income handouts that overshadow the resources those that you are turning away have at their disposal. and that is what has been happening, and this is probably a good part of the reason why there are so many "living beyond their means"....they can't survive within their means!



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719
So you are saying that if you were starving....if your children were starving....that you would rather go hungry than to steal a loaf of bread?

Yup. Under no circumstances would I feel entitled to steal food from another persons mouth. Only an ass hole steals! Thieves are scum bags, period! I am not a scum bag. I would never think to feed my children stolen food, never. Yes, I would starve before reverting to coveting and theft.

There are always alternatives, family, friends, charities. You seem to leave theft on the table of one of many options. I do not! I guess this just goes to show there ARE two different kinds of souls that walk this Earth, eh?



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 




First this is taking place in Florida where it is cold where exactly?


You'll notice that I wrote, in an earlier post, that he should be doing this in Detroit, New York, Chicago, or some other similarly cold climate.



Beyond that though you are missing the scope of society as a whole accepting criminal behavior in greater amounts and of greater crimes than they once did.


It's not a criminal act unless a crime has been committed, and no crime has been committed if there is no victim. You continue to avoid discussing the nature of crime...



As for their moving in to these homes affecting their criminal behavior well that can be looked at two ways one it will not cause them to be any more criminal than they already are or they will accept this form of crime and will decide if they can get by with this they could get by with something else.


Having a home, having the ability to get a job, being able to open a bank account, get a telephone - these can contribute to an individual committing FEWER crimes. You say they might stay as criminal as they were, or become more criminal, but you won't even consider the possibility that a man can reform?

The vast majority of criminal acts are committed because of necessity, whether actual or perceived. Improving the education or means of a person will reduce perceived necessity. Reducing the perception of necessity will hedge against criminal behavior.

It's a fact that people with better educations, high incomes, and more means of self sufficiency commit fewer crimes (not counting tax evasion).



Also instead of giving these homes to just anyone how about we set the family that was just in the home back into their place of origin.

Heck I don’t even have anything against the police chief who is refusing to evict people any more.


That would be a criminal act! Are you condoning a criminal act? My goodness, but don't you know that will just lead to more acceptance of other criminal acts! Why, you're inches away from becoming perfectly okay with mass murder.


Seriously though, I think that's a good idea...



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 05:03 AM
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my ride to work last maybe 10 minutes at the most. but, well, I pass about 10 empty abandoned, boarded up houses on the way every morning. They are eyesores, look like they haven't been taken care of in ages...the owner, if the city can even find them, are probably getting monthly notices about the mess. as I see it, if I were to move into one of these houses, started cleaning up the yard, fixing up the interior a little, unboard the windows, I would be doing the neighborhood a favor, the city a favor, and yes, even the owner a favor!! probably is why the local authorities are refusing to do much about this in florida......they probably have eyesores all over town also. matter of fact, wouldn't make such abad developement plan for the cities. if the out of state landlord wants to just let their property go into the sewer, well, the city could make arrangements with the homeless, the poor, to move in, provide them with all the stuff they need and maybe some supervision to ensure that they know how to do what they are doing and are doing it right. to make the place livable, have them care for the yard, ect....and well, bill the landlord for the cost of the supplies that were invested in his property! if they don't like what's been done, oh well.....they were given plenty of time to do something about their property themselves!



posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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Homes without people and people without homes. It does not make sense until both voids are filled. The Florida man is doing this illegally. How can it be made legal?

Before European settlers, the indigenous societies had no problem letting people move into empty shelters. Waste not, want not. Greed is the only reason why homeless people should not be given homes. Immoral behavior seems to be the driving force of our modern American society.

There is a difference between lawlessness and lacking morals. Sometimes laws are immoral, not the people who break them. Sometimes immoral behavior is legal. One crime does not breed another worse crime unless the intent is already there to commit a worse crime. For the poster that thinks acceptance of these worse crimes will occur, think again. Morality and the law are not the same thing.

I wonder if any parents taught their children the value of sharing? I am absolutely amazed that society has accepted immoral behavior as the rule of thumb regardless of what the laws dictate. "Mine, mine, mine."

Just because it is illegal, does not make it immoral. Do not confuse the drug-crazed criminals with homeless people. Two different categories, yes alcholics and addicts can become homeless and yes homeless can become addicted and homeless people can commit crimes as well as the addicted, but these are all separate states of existence and are defined by different standards.



posted on Dec, 25 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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how can you make if legal?

all these foreclosed home are either gonna be auctioned off, or more than likely the city will get them when the people controlling them lose control of them and they neglect to pay the property tax on them....either that or things might go smoothly, everyone will be sold to happy new buyers with perfect credit...
okay, so let's say there isn't enough people with perfect credit to buy all these foreclosed homes....
a group in the city could start up an investment program that everyone in the city can invest in. they could go to auctions and well, if things are bad enough, buy these properties for pennies on the dollars, then they could come up with their own arrangements with those in their community to move them in.....sell the property at a decent price and still make a little profit for their investors.

better than having a bunch of chinese or arabs moving in to buy it all to rent out to us.




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