You think you have rights?

In reading these replies, i feel that the average poster is so absorbed in the belief that they are detached from the creation.

We have rights, because we are the creators of all of this. The only reason we dont have rights is because we believe we dont or should not have, and because the majority of people view humans and hence themselves as finite beings, who are limited by their mistakes and short comings.


When you remember that your consciousness, in conjuction with the rest, is equally responsible for the entire world we live in, then you would perhaps realise taht the rights we have, are those that we decide to give ourselves, but actually all encompassing.

It is obviously common for us to base our rights on those given, or more to the point, not taken away from us by the government. Actually, we have the right to do anything, so long as it does not affect someone else directly. But really, we have the right to do anything. Actually what does the right mean?

Something each person should be free to do.

We do have rights, we are just playing the game, and actually what we are capable of, despite whether we have come to the realisation of it, is that we are capable of anything.

After all are not the people who are taking our rights from us, exactly the same as us?

come on people, you are getting so off the spirit of the topic. The original topic was how many of our rights are our government no longer recognizing, nei, persecuting us for exercising. Is that SO hard to understand??

Theoretically, we all have rights as stated.
But the practicing and observing of those fundamental rights is the issue here.

Whether you believe you are born with rights or not, the American government steadfastly believes that it can remove those rights at will. Or simply ignore them.

It's all very well shouting "I have rights because I am Human. You can't take them away from me" but if you're in a cell and the current laws of that land state otherwise, what then?

What is that family in Ohio who were raided by the SWAT team saying right now?
Their rights have been removed, or ignored, and there is not a thing they or anyone else can do about it.

The media doesn't care.
The majority of people don't know.
The PTB continue as normal.

Bush once said (jokingly, apparently) that his job would be much easier if America was a dictatorship.

How would you define a dictatorship?

Encyclopedia Britannica states it as follows:

"form of government in which one person or a small group possesses absolute power without effective constitutional limitations. The term dictatorship comes from the Latin title dictator, which in the Roman Republic designated a temporary magistrate who was granted extraordinary powers in order to deal with state crises."

Isn't that exactly what has happened in the U.S?

Under the guise of the "terrorist threat" crisis the leadership has given themselves the power over all others, to use and abuse as they wish.

I'm afraid I am with the OP on this one. You think you have "constitutional rights", but the majority of those rights have been made ineffective or have been outright removed. They remain in place only as a bookmark, a statement to show people to convince them that everything is fine, when in fact it is far from fine. They ignore those rights as they choose.

I apologize, you all seem to think you have rights?
Let's clarify:
1st:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Anyone here a member of Congress? Is there employer a member of Congress? The President? Judges?

Thought so.

4th?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Can anyone here describe to me what 'unreasonable' is? 'Probable cause'?

The fact is, one of the glories of the American constitution is its flexibility.

No rights are absolute, and all rights are subject to the balance between safety and freedom. If you have any further questions, please research the concept of 'Strict/Loose Constructionist/Constitutionalist'.

By claiming you have any particular right, you're negating a vast, vast job of our judicial branch.

i think that the worst thing that ever happened to america was that constitution. you people think it is the summation of all justice and the holder of all rights. it's made you sluggish and easily fooled.

your rights are not there because of the damn constitution, the constitution is there because monarchs don't give a fig about rights. the rights are there because you are human.

if someone burns the constitution, do your rights disappear?

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
Who says that you are born with rights?

i do, i say you are born with rights.

Exactly which rights are we born with?

Are abused, negelected, molested, tortured children somehow left out of the meeting?

Oh right, you explained, that is their fault for not excercising their rights, correct?

[edit on 9-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Exactly which rights are we born with?

Are abused, negelected, molested, tortured children somehow left out of the meeting?

Oh right, you explained, that is their fault for not excercising their rights, correct?

that's the most twisted my words have ever been. i really feel for your perspective.

i believe a child has the right to dignity and happiness. i certainly didn't say that
they need to look after themselves, they are not in a position to do so.

i believe that we, as a society, should protect the rights until the child is old enough to protect them for themselves. we have a responsibility to protect, not only our own rights, but those of the other members of our society, every other members rights.

it's not just about friends or fellow citizens or those that are rich or poor, it is about the rights of every other human.

they are human rights.

reply to post by pieman


Then just answer the question...what rights are we born with?

Do not jump around, dodging and tossing insults about my perspective. Just go on to tell me what rights we are born with and by whom's authority.

which part of

i believe a child has the right to dignity and happiness.

did you not understand?

if you need a better explanation then i suggest you read back over the rest of my posts in this massive three page thread, i'm not in the mood to repeat myself for the sake of someone who isn't bothered to read the second line of a post. .

Forgive me Pieman... I still don't see how we are born with these things... dignity and hapiness are ideas. They aren't anything tangible. They don't help me survive. In a civil and moral society people believe we are born with these things, I agree with you there. But once again this is restricted to the believe structure of that particular society. If I was born into a society that did not value these things and instead stated that it was my right to rape and pillage. Would that not then be my right?

In the times of old when a lord excerised "droit de seigneur". A lord could sleep with a bride on her wedding night. Was this not the Lords right then?

[edit on 9-12-2008 by ExistenceUnknown]

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


um, i see what your point is but there is a certain logic that would claim that the only thing that we can be sure of is our thoughts, making thought the most fundamental building block of reality.

as i said, i say we have these rights.

in truth, these rights are there because they are an indivisible part of equality.

if you are an atheist then there is no higher power to bestow inequality.
if you are a theist, these are god given rights, there is no power but god and we are equal in his eyes.

they are fairly fuzzy, which is why i say we cannot protect the actuality of them, but we can, and do, protect the means by which they can be achieved.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

um, i see what your point is but there is a certain logic that would claim that the only thing that we can be sure of is our thoughts, making thought the most fundamental building block of reality.

as i said, i say we have these rights.

in truth, these rights are there because they are an indivisible part of equality.

if you are an atheist then there is no higher power to bestow inequality.
if you are a theist, these are god given rights, there is no power but god and we are equal in his eyes.

they are fairly fuzzy, which is why i say we cannot protect the actuality of them, but we can, and do, protect the means by which they can be achieved.

So we arrive back to my point of it being a Philosophical debate that each person must decide on there own. As you say, the only thing we can be sure of is our thoughts.

My thoughts lead me to believe that the only way we are "Equal" is in the eyes of the law that is established by our society. In any other situation we are equal to none. It is our abilities that ensure our survival not our rights. I can not be equal in nature to someone bigger, stronger, or smarter than I.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
reply to post by pieman

 

Then just answer the question...what rights are we born with?

Do not jump around, dodging and tossing insults about my perspective. Just go on to tell me what rights we are born with and by whom's authority.

Well, according to our founding fathers:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those are just three rights among them, and it's obvious who they believe gave us these rights.

You have absolutely no rights in the U.S.A. except those given at the current time. If the government wants to take your guns they will, and those who say they will fight with their life are either wrong or dead. You do not even own the property in your possession. if you think you own your home and the government can not come there and do whatever they want, just forget to pay one of the many taxes that have been established. You will be shown the truth of what is yours and not. You do not even have the right to life in the states. You can be killed by ANY police officer who feels threatened by you, and he will not even miss a days pay. Truly, question authority and you will suffer by the loss of your rights. And to all of those who say we should fight against the loss of our rights I have to laugh, how would one suggest we do that? They have tanks, fighter jets, and helicopters. What chance would the freedom fighters stand? The revolution is over and we lost, get used to it. Fall in line or you could find yourself like the poor elderly woman in the early video.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


you can think that but you are wrong.

who is there that can say this or that person is smarter than this or that other person. there is no-one who is qualified to judge such a thing. there isn't even anyone who is qualified to designate the conditions by which such a thing can be judged.

we are equal because there is no-one to say otherwise, with just cause, before we have had a chance to proove the truth, or otherwise, of our ability. we are born equal.

because we are born equal, we have rights as a function of our equality. we may, and often do, choose to waive these rights, through crime or complacency, in later life but we are born with rights.

how in the name of god can you live in a democracy and not understand these basics concepts?

In the Animal Kingdom, "Might Makes Right!" In the Affairs and Government of Men, one would hope that Reason would prevail.
Methinks that "reason", however, is relative (defined by TPTB) and thus is the "rationale" for dictates determined to be "for the greater good."

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

you can think that but you are wrong.

How ironic of you to assume I am wrong when it was you that stated thoughts were the only real truth.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

how in the name of god can you live in a democracy and not understand these basics concepts?

The U.S. is not a Democracy it is a Constitutional Republic. In this society, that was created by man, WE defined our rights, WE decided that every man is entitled to these rights by birth, WE decided to uphold these rights. They WERE NOT inherent before that. Before the idea of human rights existed we were animals that were at the will of NATURE. How can you in all of your righteousness not understand these basic concepts?

reply to post by red 5


and again I state what our founding fathers wrote:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Unless the govt. all of a sudden has taken on "god status" They can't simply go killing people just as you say. Well, let me reiterate that statement... they can... but it wouldn't be RIGHT. I think there seems to be a confusion here between what can be done and what should be done. Yes the government can try and take your rights away... it doesn't mean they should, but more importantly, it doesn't make it RIGHT. I myself would rather die defending my rights to life and liberty, than to bow down like a dog.

And just as the govt. can try and take our rights away and threaten me at the barrel of a gun. I too can stand up to them and threaten with fighting back as well. The only difference is that I would be doing what SHOULD be done, and not what I WANT to do (big differences between what one WANTS to do and what one NEEDS to do)

Here's an excellent game trailer to take a look at to see what I mean



[edit on 9-12-2008 by Question]

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


if you're going to try to use my arguements against be, at least quote me correctly, i said thought was a fundamental building block of reality. it is.

look at your statements

In this society, that was created by man,
WE defined our rights,
WE decided that every man is entitled to these rights by birth,
WE decided to uphold these rights.
They WERE NOT inherent before that.

first of all, you weren't there, you did sweet FA
society is a function of humans living together, it cannot be created by anyone.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to define them.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to assign them from birth.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to uphold these rights.
they have been inherent throughout much of human history, despite the best efforts of those in power to tell us otherwise.

Before the idea of human rights existed we were animals that were at the will of NATURE.

yes, but as animals we would have no sentience, without sentience we would have no rights.

[edit on 9/12/08 by pieman]

Fine we will play this petty squabble.

This is what you said exactly.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

the only thing that we can be sure of is our thoughts, making thought the most fundamental building block of reality.

If thoughts are the only thing we can be sure of then by reason they are the only truth. Notice in my statement I did not include the " " in it so as not to quote you directly.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

first of all, you weren't there, you did sweet FA
society is a function of humans living together, it cannot be created by anyone.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to define them.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to assign them from birth.
you were not the first, nor will you be the last, to uphold these rights.
they have been inherent throughout much of human history, despite the best efforts of those in power to tell us otherwise.

This society, this Great American Society, was created by man. We created its government, we created its laws, and we created its rights. We weren’t the first to define, assign, or uphold rights in this you are correct. However you still fail to realize that with each society comes different rights. Because they are merely the product of a society, not something you are due at birth.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

yes, but as animals we would have no sentience, without sentience we would have no rights.

I would suggest you look up the word sentience.

sentient condition or character; capacity for sensation or feeling.

Taken from Dictionary.com