Christians need to face the facts!

reply to post by justamomma


Just some thoughts

When God called out to Moses and Moses turned aside, Moses took off his sandals and turned his face because he was afraid to look upon the face of God.

Later, when Moses was to ascend Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments, God commanded him to keep the people at a distance. If the people even touched the mountain, they would die. Death was the price for gazing upon the face of God.

Originally posted by Simplynoone You see this is where I see that you (Justamomma and Leo) are missing out on the PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with GOD ....through CHRIST >.

Leo calls him thee (so impersonal) and Momma calls him G..d (impersonal)...it is as if God is unreachable and impersonal to both of you .
This is just not so ,...that was why CHRIST came to connect us PERSONALLY with the Lord GOD ..through him ...we can come boldy before the throne of GRACE through Christ and have a one on one with GOD the father ..

And Momma ...he wont be within you ,...if you have not allowed him in ..that is for sure ....
He comes WITHIN when you allow CHRIST within ...then he works from within you ..not just outside of you ..

To answer your previous post. Again, as I have said, I filter the New Testament through the Old. In doing so, I have come to see the deception AND the truth in the New Testament. It is quite clear if you read the Bible the right way, as it was laid out (so long as you can erase your mind of what you *want* to believe about G-d). The New Testament acts as a sword to divide those who worship self and those who understand self only exists because of our Creator.

And you telling me "he won't be within me" makes me smile. That is a good thing and not something that makes me cringe in the least. For the first time EVER, I see the LIGHT and the Light is not in me, but the Light shines on the ONLY way back to the ONLY G-d, the only Saviour, and the only Truth. When I was focused on the light in me, I was missing the point of my existence.

"He comes WITHIN when you allow CHRIST within ...then he works from within you ..not just outside of you." Yes, this is true. This CHRIST you speak of is merely you falling for a great deception that is VERY anti-G-d and you choose to fall for it; it's really quite tragic that we shun Him, our Creator. We desrve what we get in the end.

This is what you want to believe and so it is what you see. You have that choice, but this CAN NOT be attributed as being what G-d said. He wants you to focus on Him, NOT yourself...

He does say "Consider your ways" but if you read His words, this is not meant to be the excuse for our focusing inward.

1. consider your ways
2. the intruction of the Lord
3. obedience = blessing and G-d *with* you (not in you)
4. disobedience = chastisement or a falling away to your own lusts.

Here is an example of how G-d works CONSISTENTLY... over and over and over and over and over again.

Haggai 1:
5Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

6Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

7Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

8Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.

9Ye looked for much, and, lo it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is waste, and ye run every man unto his own house.

10Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.

11And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.

12Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the LORD their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the LORD their God had sent him, and the people did fear before the LORD.

13Then spake Haggai the LORD's messenger in the LORD's message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD.

G-d gives instructions for how we are too live. There is no need for you to question that. There is no mystery. Trust and Obey.. that is it. There is no "christ" in you.... that is YOUR way to soothe your conscience into submission of mans ways. This WILL be your downfall and this will be used to manipulate you. Too many will realize too late and because they only know trust in themselves, they will be lost because they have not learned to trust the words of G-d.

What I am saying I have been backing it up with what G-d said and NONE of you have done the same. You have only given me what YOU say.

Some of you even feel something upon reading, but because you are so full of self and what you want to believe, that feeling is fleeting. I give you THE WORDS OF G-D and you argue with it THINKING you are arguing with *me*... I don't set the rules. I must submit and follow just like anyone else in order to know G-d and trust G-d.

It is evident that I have more faith and trust in G-d since I believe His words and made no excuses or interpretations about them. He speaks for Himself. This is something I still have yet to see from anyone else on this thread. SHOW me that you have arrived at your conclusions via the words of G-d.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by justamomma

 

Just some thoughts

When God called out to Moses and Moses turned aside, Moses took off his sandals and turned his face because he was afraid to look upon the face of God.

Later, when Moses was to ascend Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments, God commanded him to keep the people at a distance. If the people even touched the mountain, they would die. Death was the price for gazing upon the face of God.

Because GOD is so HOLY he cannot look upon sin ....we are SINFUL in FLESH and in spirit we are EARTHLY (Without Christ) ...The HOLY GLORY OF GOD WOULD KILL US AS WE ARE BUT MERE FLESH >.

WHich was why CHRIST is that ONLY mediator ...it is through HIM that we can come close to GOD and his presence ...CHRIST IS the only one who can see GOD >..and stand in his PRESENCE ..as he is NOT FLESH ..but spirit .....through the SPIRIT that Christ sent to us upon his death and resurection ...now we too can behold the face of GOD through CHRIST >>>..
Spirit to spirit ....Moses was FLESH ....Christ is SPIRIT ....Christ can approach that Mountain ...and now we can too through CHRIST >>>


Read about Joshua who was a foreshadow of Christ ..
vision Joshua as Christ in these scriptures ..
www.blueletterbible.org...

Even Christ said...the Father is greater then I

John 14:18 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The spirit can show truth that might not be in scriptures, in my understandings....

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

When the prophets received the spirit upon them...they didnt find this is a book...the spirit showed them things and spoke to their heart.

Many find themselves unworthy of this...Christ has shown me we are very worthy and this is how the Christ shows himself through us.

I rarely will quote scriptures, because I believe it has been tampered by man. Many feel they MUST find a way to understand ALL scriptures...even if it doesn't seem of Gods nature to them within their heart...they spend their life searching for the understanding to make God something he might not be.

Many say they go by faith...but yet use scriptures to back what they say. This is NOT faith. To claim faith...one should be able to support their thoughts with words from their hearts because the spirit has spoken to them. The truest walker of faith will not back themselves with a book or material.

I am only quoting scriptures that seem to show different then what others are saying that scriptures DONT say. You will not ever find me quoting scriptures to prove my faith in God Almighty to anyone. This is what absolute faith is. Allowing God to place the word within you. You speak from this 'word' written within because it has proven itself to you. You then are obliged to show others of your treasures in your heart so they can find these treasures within theirs.

LV

Even Christ said...the Father is greater then I

John 14:18 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The spirit can show truth that might not be in scriptures, in my understandings....

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

When the prophets received the spirit upon them...they didnt find this is a book...the spirit showed them things and spoke to their heart.

Many find themselves unworthy of this...Christ has shown me we are very worthy and this is how the Christ shows himself through us.

I rarely will quote scriptures, because I believe it has been tampered by man. Many feel they MUST find a way to understand ALL scriptures...even if it doesn't seem of Gods nature to them within their heart...they spend their life searching for the understanding to make God something he might not be.

Many say they go by faith...but yet use scriptures to back what they say. This is NOT faith. To claim faith...one should be able to support their thoughts with words from their hearts because the spirit has spoken to them. The truest walker of faith will not back themselves with a book or material.

I am only quoting scriptures that seem to show different then what others are saying that scriptures DONT say. You will not ever find me quoting scriptures to prove my faith in God Almighty to anyone. This is what absolute faith is. Allowing God to place the word within you. You speak from this 'word' written within because it has proven itself to you. You then are obliged to show others of your treasures in your heart so they can find these treasures within theirs.

LV

Originally posted by justamommaIt is evident that I have more faith and trust in G-d since I believe His words and made no excuses or interpretations about them. He speaks for Himself. This is something I still have yet to see from anyone else on this thread. SHOW me that you have arrived at your conclusions via the words of G-d.

but we're only allowed use the words you believe are from god, right. it is only the words that you deem to be true.

you say you do not interpret the word of god yet you do so by giving an opinion on it's meaning that someone else might not have.

you put yourself above others so i know you're wrong.



[edit on 9/12/08 by pieman]

[edit on 9/12/08 by pieman]

looks like I got trigger happy with the post button lol,

sorry about that...

Originally posted by justamomma

To answer your previous post. Again, as I have said, I filter the New Testament through the Old. In doing so, I have come to see the deception AND the truth in the New Testament. It is quite clear if you read the Bible the right way, as it was laid out (so long as you can erase your mind of what you *want* to believe about G-d). The New Testament acts as a sword to divide those who worship self and those who understand self only exists because of our Creator.

And you telling me "he won't be within me" makes me smile. That is a good thing and not something that makes me cringe in the least. For the first time EVER, I see the LIGHT and the Light is not in me, but the Light shines on the ONLY way back to the ONLY G-d, the only Saviour, and the only Truth. When I was focused on the light in me, I was missing the point of my existence.

"He comes WITHIN when you allow CHRIST within ...then he works from within you ..not just outside of you." Yes, this is true. This CHRIST you speak of is merely you falling for a great deception that is VERY anti-G-d and you choose to fall for it; it's really quite tragic that we shun Him, our Creator. We desrve what we get in the end.

This is what you want to believe and so it is what you see. You have that choice, but this CAN NOT be attributed as being what G-d said. He wants you to focus on Him, NOT yourself...

He does say "Consider your ways" but if you read His words, this is not meant to be the excuse for our focusing inward.

1. consider your ways
2. the intruction of the Lord
3. obedience = blessing and G-d *with* you (not in you)
4. disobedience = chastisement or a falling away to your own lusts.

Here is an example of how G-d works CONSISTENTLY... over and over and over and over and over again.

Haggai 1:
5Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

6Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

7Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

8Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.

9Ye looked for much, and, lo it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is waste, and ye run every man unto his own house.

10Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.

11And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.

12Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the LORD their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the LORD their God had sent him, and the people did fear before the LORD.

13Then spake Haggai the LORD's messenger in the LORD's message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD.

G-d gives instructions for how we are too live. There is no need for you to question that. There is no mystery. Trust and Obey.. that is it. There is no "christ" in you.... that is YOUR way to soothe your conscience into submission of mans ways. This WILL be your downfall and this will be used to manipulate you. Too many will realize too late and because they only know trust in themselves, they will be lost because they have not learned to trust the words of G-d.

What I am saying I have been backing it up with what G-d said and NONE of you have done the same. You have only given me what YOU say.

Some of you even feel something upon reading, but because you are so full of self and what you want to believe, that feeling is fleeting. I give you THE WORDS OF G-D and you argue with it THINKING you are arguing with *me*... I don't set the rules. I must submit and follow just like anyone else in order to know G-d and trust G-d.

It is evident that I have more faith and trust in G-d since I believe His words and made no excuses or interpretations about them. He speaks for Himself. This is something I still have yet to see from anyone else on this thread. SHOW me that you have arrived at your conclusions via the words of G-d.
[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

Your still not getting it ....that light within is NOT ME it is not the LIGHT OF MAN .(there is a light of man and some do think they are that light).it is the LIGHT of GOD ..the HOLY SPIRIT ..the comforter ..the LIVING SPIRIT OF GOD >..

You cannot have that Holy Spirit (THE LIGHT )without CHRIST .....

(Here is the light of CHRIST)
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Luk 11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
Here is the light of man
Isa 50:11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass [yourselves] about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks [that] ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Jhn 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
Jhn 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.


oh Lord help me here ..in explaining this ..

I know what I want to explain ...I just dont know to explain it where you can understand it ...

[Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

When the prophets received the spirit upon them...they didnt find this is a book...the spirit showed them things and spoke to their heart.]

That spirit is the HOLY SPIRIT ...
Jhn 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


This comforter they did not have in the OT .
Ecc 4:1 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of [such as were] oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors [there was] power; but they had no comforter.
Lam 1:9 Her filthiness [is] in her skirts; she remembereth not her last end; therefore she came down wonderfully: she had no comforter. O LORD, behold my affliction: for the enemy hath magnified [himself].
Lam 1:16 For these [things] I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: my children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed.

For Christ had not yet come ...

I believe this was why Christ was necessary ...a way which would turn the hearts of men back to God through spirit (from within ) ...because flesh and earthly had so consumed men (in heart mind body and soul) mens hearts were earthly fleshly ..mens minds were earthly fleshly (as we are made from earth) we must also be born of spirit ..(Born again ..from flesh to spirit ..we know flesh now we must know spirit )Adam the first man was flesh ..Jesus the second man was spirit ... ....which was why the sacrifices or the law was of none effect to man ....it did nothing ..they repeated same ole same ole mistakes and sins etc ....


I am sorry I know I may not be saying all of this to where it can be understood ....(I may even be explaining it all wrong ) as I am seeing it in my mind ...I have a hard time explaining it .
I understand it ..I just have a hard time explaining what I understand about it .

Does that make sense ..LOL

reply to post by dAlen


Jesus, and a few writings from the others, is the only redeeming feature in the entire bible. I'm not sure exactly where the OP is going with this, but its the myths, politics, legends that pertain to et overlords, and renegade ones at that, animal, blood sacrifices, personal visions, ie. the first chapter. On that one, which was one of the newer chapters in the bible, and a vision at that, Scotland was burning at the stake women who took natural pain relief herbs in hard labor giving birth. The bible is a terrifying book, and it doesn't depict God. Jesus is a breath of fresh air in it. Its not his message I find fault with.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 9-12-2008 by mystiq]

I guess people do not understand what being born again means .

Read these scriptures... Read it all in context (The whole chapters)
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Christ was the word ..the word was spoken to the apostles ..the holy spirit came and opened up that word to them that Christ had spoken to them ...(after his death and his ascension) they did not comprehend most of what he said to them (or what it all meant) UNTIL after he died and rose again and sent the COMFORTER to LIVE IN THEM >>.and the Holy Spirit came upon them and INTO THEM at Pentecost ..Then everything Christ said they understood more about it ..What Christ told them ..they told us in these BOOKS >>..then without the Holy Spirit in us ..we also will not understand these books or the words that Christ spake to them and to us .....

As they are hard to understand in the fleshly earthly condition that we are in .(in this flesh in this earthly fleshly heart mind and soul of man ) ...
The flesh is dead if you are in Christ ...the heart mind soul and spirit is where that comforter dwells when you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour and pray for the comforter to abide in you ...then you abide in Christ who abides in God and we have become one in spirit with them ..
That fleshly earthly heart mind and spirit and soul DIES ...and the spirit is MADE ALIVE .....(death to the flesh ..made alive in spirit ) ..the old man ..(Earthly fleshly hearted man ) goes away ..and is made the new man (the spiritual man the spiritual in heart mind body and soul) in a way your living OUTSIDE OF THIS BODY and OUTSIDE OF THIS SPIRIT (yours) ..and INSIDE THAT BODY AND INSIDE THAT SPIRIT >.(GOD).

So hard to explain this ...help someone who is good at explaining this ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


i think i understand what you are saying, you believe that the bible cannot be understood in it's proper context until after you have been "born again".

the reason for this is that in our corrupt state, the one in which we exist by default, we can not comprehend the words of god, or christ, fully. it is only by accepting the holy spirit, that the apostles accepted at penticost, that it becomes clear what god is saying.

you believe that the old corrupted body dies and is "born again" uncorrupted, from an uncorrupted seed, which i assume is the holy spirit.

is that right?


[edit on 9/12/08 by pieman]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo Im going to speak for badmedia becaue I KNOW he did not ever state that God is ONLY mankind as a whole and without us, God would not be.

Its not right to take something out of context and twist it because you dont understand it.

Yes, he did. Maybe and most likely unintentionally, but it still is what he said.

Ocean = G-d
water drops = us

The flaw in that example is in calling the ocean G-d because the ocean CANNOT exist without water, but G-d CAN exist without ALL of humanity. The logic is wrong. You have all been so confused and have started babbling and now it is becoming evident even to those who don't believe in G-d AT ALL that you are confused. IT is why christianity is mocked and in fact, is why MOST religions are mocked. You are speaking, but you are saying nothing.

I don't misunderstand you all. I just don't *understand* you. You are not bodies that house some entity that is G-d. That is a false spirit you have allowed inside of you; and yet you try to speak on G-d's behalf without having any of your theories based on His words. Does He NEED you to interpret for Him? seriously?

The Spirit of G-d has been known to fill men because they were walking so close to G-d; but understand, the Spirit of G-d IS NOT G-d; hence the *of*. The Hebrew translation for the Spirit (of G-d), when it talks about man being filled, either refers to "breath" or "disposition."

If someone were to say to you that you have a sweet spirit, they would not be speaking of an entity outside yourself that now is in you. They would be speaking of your disposition. This is the case in some of the references made to a man being filled with the Spirit of G-d.

In some instances, it is breath... In this case, that still is not speaking of an entity outside of G-d that is G-d. It is referring to when G-d used the mouth of a man to speak His words which always came with a prophecy of some sort to solidify that it was indeed G-d and not just some random person saying he was speaking the words of G-d.

Study your scriptures so that at least you have some grounds to stand on. Once you do study though, you will find you have no ground to stand on and thus, I suspect, why many stick to just pulling out what makes them feel better and lifts them up. But still... it isn't of G-d.




[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by Incarnated


I believe Christians need to come to the wraps the Jesus could simply be a super hero of his time. Think about it he was a friend to jews when christians and jews didn't see eye to eye. He performed countless miracles none of which have any basis of fact. Also anything ever witnessed as an action of jesus was always viewed by a small group of people never the masses. So there for Jesus was simply the "Captain America" of his time.

So in short start a newer, catchier religion with Batman as your savior.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply to post by Lokey13


the miricle of the loaves and fishes was witnessed by the masses.

the changing of wine into water was at a wedding, which i assume was well attended in view of it's length and the free wine, but i don't have a guest list, so i can't be sure.

which ones were witnessed by a small group?

the Seed is the word which the word is CHRIST and what he is and what he is doing and what he came to do etc etc .....(how can they know unless they HEAR OF IT)(the messengers bare witness of that word )...
The Holy Spirit is the one who waters the seed so it can grow (If it is not watered it withers and dies) (water baptism symbology) born again washed by the WORD by the HOLY SPIRIT of Christ ..watering of the spirit (spiritually speaking) which only comes by feeding it spiritual food (THE WORD)
And God gives it the increase ..(If it is not increasing and growing it has not been watered )
1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
Read about the seeds
(This is what Paul was trying to relay in the verses above)

REad this in context ....
Mat 13:3
Mar 4:3
2Cr 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for [your] food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

reply to post by mystiq


You too are wrong. Jesus is NOT the only redeemer spoken of in the Bible.

Psalm 19: 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psalm 78: 34 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

Isaiah 41: 14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 44: 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


48: 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

49: 26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

54: 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

I could go on and on with who G-d (not man) says the Redeemer is. It is our Creator. The G-d, the ONLY G-d, over all the earth. He alone is the Redeemer. There is no other who can redeem you.

He even speaks of being the Saviour of the gentiles and that was the point of making the covenant with Israel.. to lead the rest of the nations to the true G-d, the only Redeemer.

And in fact, I could be wrong, but *is* there even a passage in the NT that says Jesus is our Redeemer? I am hardpressed to find one myself.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Actually, you proved what is said in the Bible about the light.

Only one verse that you listed said ANYTHING about a light that is in man and it was a warning about the "light" in man. I am telling you... many of you would do well in ACTUALLY reading AND studying the Old Testament as it is written and not as you have heard it interpreted and THEN going to read the New Testament. Jesus most certainly WAS a "light" come to earth for the sole purpose of exposing the darkness.... He even gives blatant warnings that his purpose here will be misconstrued and used as you all are using it.. as was the point. You don't know this though because you discard the most important part of this whole story... you have no foundation for your beliefs.

Luk 11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

i think i understand what you are saying, you believe that the bible cannot be understood in it's proper context until after you have been "born again".

the reason for this is that in our corrupt state, the one in which we exist by default, we can not comprehend the words of god, or christ, fully. it is only by accepting the holy spirit, that the apostles accepted at penticost, that it becomes clear what god is saying.

you believe that the old corrupted body dies and is "born again" uncorrupted, from an uncorrupted seed, which i assume is the holy spirit.

is that right?

[edit on 9/12/08 by pieman]

Hi Pie ...the old corrupted body is (Fleshly earthly heart mind body and soul)
it becomes born again upon recieving the HOLY SPIRIt to (body mind soul and spirit into a spiritual uncorruptable body ) as in collectively speaking .
And to the first question is a YES >>>

in other words the Holy Spirit within you ....will think HOLY as Christ does .it will think on spiritual things ..(not earthly fleshly selfish things) ....
As we are by default .....(being born of earth ) ........we must become of spirit (born of spirit) .......
It will not be complete though (as in we wont leave this fleshly body persay ) until Christ returns (or as some will be raptured prior to that time)and that COMPLETE (regeneration) takes place ..
This corruptable (Literal) will put on incorruptable(Literal) a literal change will take place at that time ..In the mean time a SPIRITUAL CHANGE IS ALREADY HAPPENING IN YOU RIGHT NOW (as you are born again ..and yes it is a walk in spirit and comes in baby steps)
We will recieve new bodies at that time (changed)

Read here I think this will help explain it ...
www.blueletterbible.org...

When I first felt the Spirit of God in me ....I almost felt like I could literally leave this body ..I was like floating in the spiritual realm ..
But of course over time you come back down to earth so to speak ...the world (our earthly literal body) does that to you .(it is heavy and the spirit is light).and until we SHED this literal sinful body ...we will stay partially in flesh (keeping it under subjection) ,...until that change come *when Christ FINISHES that which he has started in us ...
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Hbr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Originally posted by justamomma
Luk 11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

mathew chapter 5

14 "You are the light of the world.
A city built on a mountain cannot be hidden.
15. "And a lamp is not lit and placed under a bucket,
except on a lamp stand, giving light
to all those who are in the house.
16. "This is how your light
will shine before humanity,
So they can see your good deeds
and glorify your Father in heaven.

i need not add anything.