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Christians need to face the facts!

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posted on Dec, 12 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Brother ..not necessarily true ...in fact I am leaning more towards those texts may be satans version of things ..I guess I am going to have to read them myself ..since I really do not know what is in them ..

I mean satan was the head angel and would have known alot of stuff from being there with God ..he knew the plan of God ....so why not send out some deception ahead of time to fool and confuse the masses ....



[edit on 12-12-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Dec, 12 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Brothers
From what I have read so far in these comments then if the Summerians started it then the Torah and Bilble as well as the Koran are wrong. Which make them false. Gee. I wonder how the people who believe in them will think about that.


First off, I'd disagree about the "wrong" if Summerians started it, however that's not even the case.

The Summerians, and other such area races come up out of the races of the nodites, a far older group of men.



posted on Dec, 12 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


Yes the men of reknown ..or the nephalim ....
darn one liners lol sorry ..



posted on Dec, 12 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



No, actually the "Nephilum" they that "fell" or "came down", a.k.a. "the fallen", also known by many other names throughout WORLD mythology, all stem out of an event that can be traced through science to around/about 125000 years ago.

At about that point the stories reflected in the summerian writings about genetic manipulation reflect in science as an unknown jump in evolutionary process.

There have been generations and geneartions and world and world to rise and fall over the last 125+ thousand years that we only understand as being far back in "recorded" histroy to the summerians.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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Search for 'David Flynn' on Youtube and GoogleVideo he is a Christian and a conspirator and will convince you.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 03:46 AM
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Christianity is just one more religion in the history of humanity ... like many others before it and many others possibly after. There is no more proof for the Christian God than there is for the Greek Gods.

Some of us are still too afraid to face "living" without an "imaginary protective father"! Too bad this "father" (be it Jewish, Sumerian, Greek or anything you wish), allows so much evil in this world - and doesn't do anything to protect millions of us from it, each and every year ...

As Epicurus wrote hundreds of years before christianity was even born:

"If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?"

[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by zamolxis
Christianity is just one more religion in the history of humanity ... like many others before it and many others possibly after. There is no more proof for the Christian God than there is for the Greek Gods.

Some of us are still too afraid to face "living" without an "imaginary protective father"! Too bad this "father" (be it Jewish, Sumerian, Greek or anything you wish), allows so much evil in this world - and doesn't do anything to protect millions of us from it, each and every year ...

As Epicurus wrote hundreds of years before christianity was even born:

"If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?"


Read Genesis. You took from the tree of knowledge. What gives knowledge is understanding BOTH sides of things. Thus why it says may will become LIKE GOD, knowing both good and evil. And before anyone says that was a lie by the serpent - try reading down a few more verses where God repeats the same thing. The serpents lie is that we wouldn't "die", but God said we would surly die. And we do have to die before moving on.

How can you understanding what it means to be "hot", if you do not at the same time understand what it means to be "cold"? As such, you could never understand or have knowledge of good if you did not understand evil.

As such, we are quarantined on this planet to keep the evil that is going on separate from the rest of life in the universe. Our languages and cultures were manipulated, so that we would war within, rather than be united together and war with everyone else in the universe. We fight with each other over our differences, and if we roamed the universe with this same attitude, we would want to war or enslave anything that was different than us. Thus, why the languages and cultures were specifically created. Once we learn both good and evil, and then choose to do good, then you are released. Call it a prison if you want, or call it a school if you want. I consider it to be a school, and I am the student.

And you will find this basic premise among almost all beliefs. Even people who don't believe in religion but believe in UFO's talk about these same basic principles, and how if we can't get along on earth - how are we going to get along in the universe. It's just something I think most people kind of "get" or understand on a more subconscious level.

As well, there is the whole thing about if we keep advancing our technology without figuring out how to get along, we will destroy ourselves - same basic principle really.

Answer honestly please - have you ever had general thoughts along this lines yourself when you look at how humans act as a whole?





[edit on 14-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 06:03 AM
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So are you saying God allows evil to "teach us a lesson"?

If a man kills a child he is the most evil person alive - but if God does it, it is to teach as a lesson and test our faith?

Is God allowing a child to die in agony from an incurable disease, to test the child's faith? That of the parents? Is that God worth loving? Nice way to teach!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]

[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by zamolxis
So are you saying God allows evil to "teach us a lesson"?

If a man kills a child he is the most evil person alive - but if God does it, it is to teach as a lesson and test our faith?

Is God allowing a child to die in agony from an incurable disease, to test the child's faith? That of the parents? Is that God worth loving? Nice way to teach!



Most of those dogmas are things that have been created by people who do not understand. Part of evil is death and the fear of(created by ignorance towards what happens after).

Death is natural. It's something we all go through, it's a part of life. I never feel sorrow for someone who has died, I do feel sorrow for any pain they had to endure until that point however. The only real death going on is from our own perspectives.

I could explain this to you in more detail if you want, but it takes a long time to explain and very few seem to grasp it.

You only see death in itself as evil because it appears to be the end. If after those people died - good things happen to them - then was it really so evil?

Do you ever watch scary movies? Where it scares the crap out of you and you get wrapped into it deeply, but in the end you were safe the entire time.

Evil however is more about infringing on someone's free will. Murder for example is evil, because it is infringing on someone's free will. Same for theft and pretty much every basic law(thats worth anything) comes from. I call this the universal law, it's how I learned it. Jesus calls it loving they neighbor as thyself, which I agree with because if you truly love something you will set it free and thus you wouldn't infringe on their free will.

Seriously, if that kind of stuff were true about god in that context, then he is hardly a god at all. Just so you know, the ruler of this world is Satan, always has been for thousands of years. There is a reason spirituality has been put on halt while our technical advances have been increasing in huge rates mostly from research in military and the like.

Let me ask you this. How do you think people will have to act towards each other in a peaceful society? Are the people in a truly peaceful society - one without excessive prisons and laws, going to act any different than the example Jesus gave? Think about how a good society would have to act towards each other. Not laws, not systems of government, just how the people themselves would need to treat each other. Then, if you want to see that change, start being that change.

I'm pretty sure you will come to the conclusion that people will have to act as Jesus did. And if you see and be the change to what it takes for a peaceful society, then you will be walking the path of Jesus. This is what Jesus says is to believe for the very works sake.

If you do that, then the rest will come naturally.

Really, it's nothing like what you see on TV, or what you think it's about. If it was, I wouldn't be following it. Don't let their foolishness and hypocrisy make your decisions for you.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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Firstly, the Epicurus paradox is not a dogma. A "dogma" is defined as the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from. Thus the Epicurus paradox is pretty much the contrary to a "dogma".

Secondly, are you saying that we only consider something connecting to death as evil only because we are afraid of death? Or because death is forced upon us and thus the only evil commited is the infrigement on our free will - to continue living? In other words God says "Thou shall not kill" to us because we "simple humans" if killing would be infringing on someone's free will - but God can kill as whenever He wishes and that is not evil? That wouldn't infringe our free will to continue living?

What about the suffering preceding the death? Again, what about the agony a child, suffering from an incurable disease, may go through before finally being "allowed" by this kind God to die? Is that not an evil act of God? What about the suffering of the parents seing their child go through the pain? Is that a test of faith, again? Is that not evil?


[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by zamolxis
Firstly, the Epicurus paradox is not a dogma. A "dogma" is defined as the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from. Thus the Epicurus paradox is pretty much the contrary to a "dogma".

Secondly, are you saying that we only consider something connecting to death as evil only because we are afraid of death? Or because death is forced upon us and thus the only evil commited is the infrigement on our free will - to continue living? In other words God says "Thou shall not kill" to us because we "simple humans" if killing would be infringing on someone's free will - but God can kill as whenever He wishes and that is not evil? That wouldn't infringe our free will to continue living?

What about the suffering preceding the death? Again, what about the agony a child, suffering from an incurable disease, may go through before finally being "allowed" by this kind God to die? Is that not an evil act of God? What about the suffering of the parents seing their child go through the pain? Is that a test of faith, again? Is that not evil?


I guess I didn't make myself clear. God doesn't do those things, you choose to learn this lesson. It is your own free will that brought you here.

Would you rather be ignorant and have no understanding, and thus no free will?

As for the suffering preceding death, I am told that god takes their place for that, or is with the person for support, but I can not say for certain that is true, as in that case I am only going off what I've read, not what I know/experienced. Other than to say I know how it is possible. Also, take a look at the footprints in the sand poem, maybe it can give you a little insight.

I will go in more detail with you later, these are questions I don't get very often and interest me. But it's way past my bedtime and I am falling asleep at the keyboard.





[edit on 14-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Would you rather be ignorant and have no understanding, and thus no free will?

[edit on 14-12-2008 by badmedia]


That would only be valid if all evil resulted from men - and from our actions caused by our so called "free will". But is not so! There is plenty of evil which comes from acts of God and not from our ill exercised will. In what way would the "free will" of an ill child cause his incurable disease? And what if a child dies in an earthquake, after days of suffering, buried under rubble? How would his "free will" cause that?


Originally posted by badmedia
As for the suffering preceding death, I am told that god takes their place for that, or is with the person for support, but I can not say for certain that is true, as in that case I am only going off what I've read, not what I know/experienced.
[edit on 14-12-2008 by badmedia]


If the child goes through six months or so of pain finally ending in death , at what point does God "take the place" of the child? Does God also take the place of the parents suffering from seeing their child in pain? Does he continue then to "take their place" also afterwards, as they mourn the loss of their child? Or he only takes the place of the child in agony? To me this only seems another attempt to find (and if unable to find, to invent or imagine) more excuses for random evil acts of God. Oh wait - he was only testing their faith!

So, again:

""If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?"

[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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When you realize that the only way out of this 'life of flesh' is to lay down your idea of 'FREE WILL' because you are here to learn how to do the ONE WILL OF THEE, a whole other light comes to the soul of our purpose. If anyone has a problem with this, it is ok, they are simply not ready for such a purpose...but it is a purpose for every single soul, at some point, at some life time. If you believe you have free will....you are still lost. You have not gave your life of flesh as an offering to be an instrument for THEE ONE WILL of all things.

This is a material world, the result of spirit coming into flesh is the experience of good and bad things. These things makes souls stronger, wiser, and humbles the ones that are ready to be humbled. Stop blaming God for an experience we all chose to be a part of. Its not God nor Satan....its a result of cause and effect. All material worlds experience sorrows and pain....you are to rise above and realize...this is only an experience....you choose if you become stronger or weaker, live in the pain or rise above the pain....its a process that provides growth to the souls that are ready for it.

This material world is just a speak, a mark, in a much bigger process and a 'real 'life'. This life is minuscule to our 'true life' in the spirit.

Jesus died because a righteous will wont allow you to fight the flesh, it wont allow you to force the divine light, it will not allow you to fight for a flesh life because it is unrighteous to do so. God does not force, the will of God is not a will as we think of 'free will'. It is a will that does things because it is a righteous way, a pure way, unblemished. If Christ would of fought and or killed to keep his flesh life...he would of became a blemished spirit.

Christ remained unblemished because his actions remained righteous..not fighting back...not forcing the light to anyone. Those we could accept the light...Christ offered it to them. An offering is a gift, its not forced. This is the same way we are to find our way....God is patient and makes a way for all....God is waiting on us...not us waiting on God.....through becoming humble, through seeking the nature of Thee....one can find the way to becoming just as Christ lived...unblemished and remaining righteous...even when someone comes to take your flesh life.

Like I said, many are not ready for this....But more are ready in this age then 2000 yrs. ago.
Peace,
Lv



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



Just as much so as the OT could be influences by the creator god...who only THINKS he is god....you can see through this is you understand the Most High is not greedy nor prideful nor jealous nor wrathful.

The creator god claiming to be God in the OT can be looked at as Satan...but most importantly, one just needs to know that this is not the teachings of THEE MOST HIGH, who is also above each co-creator.

There are many realms with rulers that God gave inheritance to. Call them the 'sons of El' or the Elohim....it shows itself throughout history, this ruler ship here on Earth has became forceful and greedy.

Without weighing the seed of 'what is righteousness', one can not see this understanding.

God owns many vineyards...sons of El received inheritance for ruler ships (also knows as the 'powers')....many became greedy and prideful with the power of ruling the vineyards and their fruits. This ruler would love to find ways to keep these fruits.

I know this disagrees with what you feel Simplynoon...but just as though your passion burns to tell others what you have learned, so does mine. It is a path I can not turn back on, and in agreement with this path, I have to tell others what I have learned. I dont speak to hold truth or reverence, I speak because my spirit tells me to. Again, back to the will thing....my will exists only through the will of Thee.

Guilty of highjecking thread topic again


sorry Incarnated....cant seem to help it sometimes.

Peace to all
'LV



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
When you realize that the only way out of this 'life of flesh' is to lay down your idea of 'FREE WILL' because you are here to learn how to do the ONE WILL OF THEE, a whole other light comes to the soul of our purpose. If anyone has a problem with this, it is ok, they are simply not ready for such a purpose...but it is a purpose for every single soul, at some point, at some life time. If you believe you have free will....you are still lost. You have not gave your life of flesh as an offering to be an instrument for THEE ONE WILL of all things.


So first when confronted with the "evil God paradox", the religious attempt a feeble excuse saying "God allows evil so that we can experience free will". Now you are saying we have no free will and all evil in the world happens because it is the will of God?!


Originally posted by LeoVirgo
This material world is just a speak, a mark, in a much bigger process and a 'real 'life'. This life is minuscule to our 'true life' in the spirit.


And as always, when running out of arguments, the "Christian conspiracy" defenders run to their imaginary world and invoke their imaginary heroes...



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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I am not Christian...I claim no 'group'.

Its not a will as to we see will as 'what we want'. Its a will that follows a order for processes. Its just the way it works.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



When you realize that the only way out of this 'life of flesh' is to lay down your idea of 'FREE WILL' because you are here to learn how to do the ONE WILL OF THEE,


Exactly, and it is in this one will that true free-dom is found. Free will, or would that be freed will?


Just playing with you. Beautifully put.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Does a fruit will itself to be a fruit....

It is a process...material worlds have cause and effect...

Its accepting the process 'as is' without playing the blame game. We might not like it...but it is what it is. By allowing the pain and sorrow to over come you...you are allowing the material world to over come your spirit...which is to rise above this place.

We dont like processes because it involves something that is out of our control. This is what keeps most people from 'growing' because they get caught up in the effects from the cause and refuse to overcome it.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



Its accepting the process 'as is' without playing the blame game. We might not like it...but it is what it is. By allowing the pain and sorrow to over come you...you are allowing the material world to over come your spirit...which is to rise above this place.


There was a time wherein "effect" was giving me pain and sorrow and I heard a line in a song: God wants us to be grateful even when seeing our heart laying beside us on the floor gasping for it's last breath.

Gratitude and thankfulness in ALL things may be hard to do, but it is indeed the only cure.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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In other words we must be "virtuos" - but never question the morality (or better said "immorallity") of God?

I'd rather try to be happy in this life - I'd rather try to be "virtuos" here and now - without having to invent any Gods or "other lives" where I can hope to "do ... better"! Do Christians need to be hypnotized into happiness by priests and sermons and hopes of escaping "the flesh"?!



[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]







 
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