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Christians need to face the facts!

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posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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I simplu don't understand how Sumaerian writing is taken as the template but the Bible is considered a fraud.

Dissecting the bible is like disecting a Road Runner cartoon.

It makes sense or it doesn't. Criticizing it doesn't make you smart. Believing it doesn't make you dumb.

All I ask is that if you don't believe in the Bible don't be mean to the believers.

There is a thread running saying "Mary was knocked up."

Why be so tactless?



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by crmanager
 


Wonderful! You're moving the thread foward! Thank you!

The sumerian tablets and the jewish writings both stem from an even farer reaching civilization that has been lost in time.

The people that are known as the sumerians and the nationalistic jews actually share history, as families, that split and thus the nationalistic spin was put on the Torha.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Uh, why do you skeptics have anything to say about what the OP said? He is correct. I've known this for a long time now. How could you not? There are atleast 25 mythical entities with the same story as Jesus. All their stories were born and gone before the story of Jesus. It doesn't take much of an IQ to figure out that the story of Jesus is blatant plagiarism at its finest.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by spacemanjupiter
Uh, why do you skeptics have anything to say about what the OP said? He is correct. I've known this for a long time now. How could you not? There are atleast 25 mythical entities with the same story as Jesus. All their stories were born and gone before the story of Jesus. It doesn't take much of an IQ to figure out that the story of Jesus is blatant plagiarism at its finest.


But it does take a bit of an IQ to figure out the idol and the actual words of the story isn't the important part, it's the concepts and understandings you can get from those stories that is most important. Thus the reason you see those concepts and understandings passed around the world throughout history.

What you talk about if true IMO gives even more weight to it IMO.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by spacemanjupiter
It doesn't take much of an IQ to figure out that the story of Jesus is blatant plagiarism at its finest.


Although funny, I'd not say it such a way.

You have to put yourselves back then. There was no MTV. There was no weekend miniseries. There was no television, radio, there were hardly story books. Many of what was passed around was still very oral. Many peoples were illerate.

These "mythologies" had a deep rooted base in the human psychie as can be seen by the money of the roman republic coins. They had more discriptive decors that told story of mythological events.

So the early church peoples just assoicated known AND ACCEPTED mythologies with the Ioshaua (jesus) story. This made christianity something easy to understand.

It was adding the old mythological stories that took christianity from a cult to a church.

However I'd question what the people that did this would say about modern and "learned" christians to believe such foolishness as illeral events.




posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
You can disagree with *me* all you want and this matters little to me. It should just be made clear though that G-d does not make this claim. Again, He says He will be WITH of us if we cling to Him with all of our hearts, but that does NOT equate to "He is *in* our hearts." It becomes less confusing when you start reading what HE said rather than basing everything on what a man interprets Him to be saying, even if that man is in the NT.


This is just another example of how people talk about a personal relationship with god, but when it comes down to it, we do not accept that other people may have that personal relationship with god.

I don't need the bible. I never have. I can explain and tell you why Jesus is right in what he says without even quoting the bible, and I did do that for a time. In fact, I only use the bible when talking to Christians mostly. I talk about the concepts without the idol among non-christians.

I didn't learn from the bible, so I do not get my things based on any interpretations from the bible. Again, I learned from a personal relationship - which is again something talked about but isn't truly allowed.

Speaking of which, why is it people speak of a personal relationship with god, but then can only quote the bible? Am I to believe that having a personal relationship with god equates to having a personal bible reader to you?



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


There are several ways of reading the scriptures (bible). In some context the MORE TRUTHFUL statement that God actually does give to us a piece of the Father within us all is shown, but only if you want to see the truth rather then what you want to see.

Jesus taught: "But when you pray, do not do openly like the fools do, go away by yourself and pray within yourself" where the father is.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Yes, he did. Maybe and most likely unintentionally, but it still is what he said.

Ocean = G-d
water drops = us

The flaw in that example is in calling the ocean G-d because the ocean CANNOT exist without water, but G-d CAN exist without ALL of humanity. The logic is wrong. You have all been so confused and have started babbling and now it is becoming evident even to those who don't believe in G-d AT ALL that you are confused. IT is why christianity is mocked and in fact, is why MOST religions are mocked. You are speaking, but you are saying nothing.


Actually, you have totally distorted what I said. What is actually true is that humanity and consciousness could not exist without god, not the other way around. Of course trying to use water and the ocean is going to come up short when you want to take things so literally, it's the ocean and water. You are taking it as the ocean would disappear if you took away all the drops, which is true, but in our world the ocean never disappears. I only mentioned it as a way of giving understanding, not that god is literally the ocean, or that the ocean is an end all description of god.

You know, if you actually try to find the truth in what someone is saying, rather than trying to find a literal way of saying they are false, you can gain a much better understanding.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by badmedia
 


There are several ways of reading the scriptures (bible). In some context the MORE TRUTHFUL statement that God actually does give to us a piece of the Father within us all is shown, but only if you want to see the truth rather then what you want to see.

Jesus taught: "But when you pray, do not do openly like the fools do, go away by yourself and pray within yourself" where the father is.



Yes, I can not say that I alone am I god. I am not. I only recognize that god is inside of me. I have seen and know that connection from my own experience.

God is all knowing, omnipotent etc. I am not all knowing. I am inside a limited perspective where I do not know all. But without that piece or spark of god inside me, then I do not have consciousness, and I get that.

Without god you are basically a Machine. Nothing but action vs reaction, following patterns. If you think, then you are. And if you are, then you are of god. And if you are of god, then god is inside you, and you need to open up your perspective and knowledge and remember that connection with god.

And it doesn't take the bible to learn this. In fact, I don't think the bible makes much sense at all unless you have made that connection. I didn't think it was a coincidence when I learned that without the holy spirit you can't understand the bible. I was amazed when I read John 14 for the first time after my experience as it described everything that happened to me exactly.

I was not a follower of Jesus. So up until John 14:20 it didn't really apply to me. I didn't follow Jesus or do what he said(exactly). I do have honest intentions towards things and did see many of the evils he spoke of before then. But anyway, then one day my life changed. I realized and seen/felt the connection with god. And John 14:20 talks about "on that day". And "on that day" I certainly did change. And I did not see Jesus. I seen the father. And again in John 14 it says that if I do not hear the words of Jesus(and I didn't, they never made sense) I would hear the words of the father instead(I did).

And then it goes on to talk about how the holy spirit will comfort me and bring me knowledge and bring remembrance of things said to me. And that also did happen. Again without the bible. I used to talk about consciousness, perspective and a connection with god all the time to people.

Not once in all this time was I given a single name. Not a single time was I ever once told a specific thing going on was good or bad. Not a single time was I told I must go do this, or I must go do that. None of that stuff. Instead, I was given an understanding of things so that I didn't need to be told individually this is good this is bad. I was shown that the names and images were not what is important, it's the actions that matter - or as Jesus says - their fruits. And by looking at the actions done I can see the truth. I can see right through people.

My knowledge goes so much further than just the bible, as any personal relationship would. If you meet an author of a book, are you still reduce to only knowing that was written down in a book?

And then we see claims of it must be "another spirit" I have gotten. Which is to say that when I or anyone else asked for a fish, we instead received a serpent.



8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


Is this a lie? Did I recieve a serpent when I asked for a fish? Did I recieve a false spirit when I reached out for god? I did not ask the preacher to show me god, I did not ask a book to show me god, and I did not look in the world for god.

If people have a personal relationship with god as they say, then lets see the things that make a person rich in the eyes of god, wisdom which is made of understanding, knowledge and experience. If you have a personal relationship with god, then why is logic which is part of what gives someone wisdom, and what makes a man rich in the eyes of god thrown away? Why is it we must live on what other people tell us, rather than relying on our riches? As such, is not the person who ignores knowledge, throws away the wisdom not the one who is poor in the eyes of god? If you are rich in the eyes of god, then would you not share your riches with others? Which is wisdom, knowledge and helping to bring understanding, and not the physical literal meaning of a book as the world gives.

I will never be reduced to a book. A book, a church or any society will never replace a personal relationship with god, and I will not be fooled by such physical imitations.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia This is just another example of how people talk about a personal relationship with god, but when it comes down to it, we do not accept that other people may have that personal relationship with god.

I don't need the bible. I never have. I can explain and tell you why Jesus is right in what he says without even quoting the bible, and I did do that for a time. In fact, I only use the bible when talking to Christians mostly. I talk about the concepts without the idol among non-christians.

I didn't learn from the bible, so I do not get my things based on any interpretations from the bible. Again, I learned from a personal relationship - which is again something talked about but isn't truly allowed.

Speaking of which, why is it people speak of a personal relationship with god, but then can only quote the bible? Am I to believe that having a personal relationship with god equates to having a personal bible reader to you?


First off, I thought the last post (the one after this) was beautifully written and there is no doubt that came from your heart.

I am not saying that G-d can not show Himself to a person outside of the Bible, and in fact, this is the exact way He had to reach me. To even further that point, the Bible wasn't even in existence when a lot of those events in it took place.. so, no... that is NOT what I am saying.

But if you do believe in the G-d of the Bible, regardless of if you believe that He can work in you from the outside of it or not, we are living in a time of great deception and this deception is what that WHOLE book is about. To slice it up and take only what suits you is to risk falling for the deception.

Right now, we ARE in a time of great confusion. If men who have walked CLOSER to G-d than we have could be deceived by the age old "your eyes will be opened and you will be as gods," how much MORE are we capable of being deceived. Thus the purpose of G-d giving us His words and not only ensuring the perserving of those words in an EXTREMELY meticulous manner (someone else on here spoke of this too) but in a way that we CAN'T say Israel wrote these things down to glorify themselves; because again, they are NOT glorified AT ALL and in fact, THEIR sins ARE exposed in a nasty manner (and those who say otherwise HAVE NOT ACTUALLY BOTHERED READING THE TEXT! PERIOD!).

G-d has gone about giving us His words in a logical manner and in an caring manner so that we could memorize them FOR THE PURPOSE of trying the spirits that will come to you in HIs name. You have admitted you are not god and so what makes you so sure that it is G-d if you are not even bothering to test the spirits by what He says? This isn't the time nor the place for the lovey dovey relationship. This is a sober time. It is a time of quickening and we HAVE been warned over and over again that "His words are a lamp unto our feet and a Light unto our path." If you don't know HIS words, then are you sure that it is G-d that is lighting your way?

I do believe you have a sincere heart. It was very evident in your last post. I don't say these things because you HAVE to believe them, I say them because I care and the way that leads to death is a very deceptive way. Too many people are saying what you are saying and yet we are warned over and over that the path to G-d is one that few will find. So, since most people are either focused on ONE side of the Bible or they are finding god within, it stands to reason that is not the narrow path that was spoken of.

Heed G-d's words as they are because it IS the only way to test the spirits. The spirits will not come to you saying, "hey, I am here to lead you astray." That is wishful thinking and I know how easy it is to believe because I fell for it myself.

Even after having said that, I know I cannot convince you that KNOWING G-d's words inside and out so that you won't be fooled is important. Only He can convince you of that and He will be able to do such if that is really where your heart is. You just have to understand. As mean as some of you are thinking I am, my heart is heavy concerning all of this. I do not feel happy happy joy joy!! I feel sick to my stomach and troubled by the deception that I know many don't mean to fall for. That is why I am trying to get noticed here in any way I can even if it sounds mean. The great falling away is at hand. Pay attention to the ones whose message is easily accepted even if not believed by all because that acceptance is your warning flag!! I care, that is why I urge others to KNOW HIs words and in that, you will have your measuring stick concerning the doctrines in your head.
I do wish the best for everyone, I just know that there is much deception in words that sound good make us feel good but it is NOT good; and if I keep silent, then that is a mark against me... rightfully so. The time is so short and I feel silenced. All I can say is may G-d reach those who can be reached quickly.




[edit on 10-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


1 point of note here. Even god says we will become as gods after eating the fruit.



22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


See, it says out of the garden of eden(the universe, including other dimensions) and casts us to the ground from which we came(earth).

It basically works like this. We were in heaven and all we knew was good, but this made us ignorant, and unlike God. We were good because we were created that way, we had no real concept of what evil was, so we didn't go around doing evil things.

So we were removed from the garden to protect that which was not evil. Or you could say, we are quarantined on this planet. The only way back is to understand the difference between good and evil, and then choose to do good.

We got the commandments. The people were hypocrites and so they would only go persecute those who they see would sinned, but failed to see that in the process they were sinning themselves. So while they had the law and what was good, they did not actually follow it. They see a man who is killed, and so they kill that man thinking they have done good. But instead, they have doubled the killing, doubled the sin. They think they are doing it in good, but are actually doing so in sin(matthew 7).

Thus mankind was pretty well doomed. So then Jesus comes and provides understanding to those laws. Tells them - see when you did that, you sinned yourself. That is not the way, I will show you the way. And even as those people planned and sinned against him, he refused to break a commandment himself. In doing so, he fulfilled the law by showing how it is to be followed. By understanding his life and what he did, you can follow his example and then he is your savior.

It is not a satanic sacrifice. Where they view the sacrifice of Jesus(and the truth) as a way of keeping the illusion and thus power of Satan alive and this world going. They view the cross as the tool that crushed the truth.

And by following his example, then you are choosing good and doing what you need to get back in heaven.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 03:43 AM
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Also, I'm not all happy happy joy joy myself. I am honestly turned off when people excessively use words like "light" and "love". In the same way I am turned off when I see a preacher surrounded by large amounts of symbolism.

Maybe they mean it, maybe they don't. All I know is that the word in itself is meaningless without action backing it up. How many people just say I love you and don't mean it? How many people say things like "God Bless you" while then working at how to best take advantage of you and so on.

These things are meaningless and are not to be trusted. Words are like symbols in that they can be thrown around while doing the opposite of what they actually mean. If they are true, then the actions will show it and those actions will say it.

Of course, nothing is ever going to be sold as bad and evil. And that is something I watch out for. For this reason alone, I can never trust anything based on image and words. I have to look at the actions involved to know the truth. This is why names and things were never given to me and why I was shown they were not important, because any image can appear to be good.

Everyone who does want to be deceived must have their own understandings, of which images/names and such can be switched out and the pattern can be seen amongst an unlimited amount of images. You can't rely on another person for those understandings.

With understanding, you can see who are the pharisees of today. You can see that a synagogue is a modern church of today. You can see that when Jesus spoke of "those who call themselves Jews, but really aren't" also applies to christian leaders of today and so on. As such, you are also able to apply these same things to other things as well. If you are blind and look at the literal only, then all you can do is look and see if someone is holding a sign over their head or claiming to be a pharisee etc.

It was never the specific words of Jesus that drew me to him, it was the understandings he was saying with those words I knew was truth.

The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom. The man with understanding, knowledge and experience.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


So if god is all knowing omnipotent, how did you come to this conclusion?

I will have a stab in the dark here, you conclude this because the bible has told you so or someone else has told you so because they read it in the bible and came to that conclusion.

If god himself/herself/itself told you directly then you would not need a bible, as you'd have a direct communication with the source.


Logically, as you use a bible you have obviously come to the conclusion that god is this or that, because the bible has told you so.

However, the bible contains many errors and contradictions, so it could not be the work of a being that is inerrant. So again, the obviousl conclusion is that the claim that god is "All knowing, omnipotent" is being made by men, who over a period of time wrote the bibles' in their various forms.

So our final conclusion is that you believe that, god is an omnipotent being because someone told you so.

Hm



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by spacemanjupiter
Uh, why do you skeptics have anything to say about what the OP said? He is correct. I've known this for a long time now. How could you not? There are atleast 25 mythical entities with the same story as Jesus. All their stories were born and gone before the story of Jesus. It doesn't take much of an IQ to figure out that the story of Jesus is blatant plagiarism at its finest.


No they are not. ALL of these allegations have been refuted, most for over 50 or more years.

The majority of the refutations , though not all, center on the fact that after the Christian religion began to spread and pull adherants away from Horus and Osirus and etc., the various cults began changing their origin stories - kinda like CocaCola changing its formula to compete with Pepsi's rising sales numbers.

At the following site: www.tektonics.org...

you will find articles written in refutation to each ancient god on Remsberg's list (the major source of this urban myth) and those postulated by such crackpots as Ascharya S and Tom Harpur. The man who wrote them has a Master's in Library Science, so they are meticulously researched.


[edit on 10-12-2008 by papabryant]



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
So if god is all knowing omnipotent, how did you come to this conclusion?

I will have a stab in the dark here, you conclude this because the bible has told you so or someone else has told you so because they read it in the bible and came to that conclusion.

If god himself/herself/itself told you directly then you would not need a bible, as you'd have a direct communication with the source.


You just assume it has to come from a book because that is what makes you comfortable. You can't conclude anything I say, except that my experience is not a good reason for you yourself to believe anything I say. And you are right and I agree. And nothing anyone could have said would have changed my mind until I experienced it myself. Everyone should have their own vision. Which is to say everyone should have their own understanding.

God is the sum of all consciousness, and is thus omnipotent and all knowing. Consciousness is something which can not be created or destroyed. It is the "observer" for which all things are presented to. In the eyes of god the universe is static and doesn't move. There is no time, as time is only the illusion of a limited perception. Thus if you were to go into the consciousness of the "source" you will cease to exist as an individual and the "ride" will be over because you have lost your limited perception.

I don't believe in this stuff because the bible says so. I believe in the bible because it says this stuff.




Logically, as you use a bible you have obviously come to the conclusion that god is this or that, because the bible has told you so.


Logically, if I have understanding, then I can explain these things without quoting the bible and in my own words which carry a more modern understanding. And I can talk about them without the bible, and often do among my friends. But when I am talking to people who are christians, then I am able to better communicate these things to them in the context of the bible. As well, there is alot of other truth in the bible other than what I might mention in a single post, and for someone who believes in the bible, they might can take any new understanding they see and apply it to other parts for their own understanding.



However, the bible contains many errors and contradictions, so it could not be the work of a being that is inerrant. So again, the obviousl conclusion is that the claim that god is "All knowing, omnipotent" is being made by men, who over a period of time wrote the bibles' in their various forms.

So our final conclusion is that you believe that, god is an omnipotent being because someone told you so.


And this is where you just make a bunch of other assumptions. You do that alot. I remember you from another thread, where you assumed that anyone who is christian hates gay people, and I told you that is not what is actually said or true.

Your final conclusion is that you will believe what you want to believe. It's funny. You think I'm expecting you to believe simply because I say. But if you believe what I say because I say it, and not because you understand what I say - then you are the bigger fool. You shouldn't take my word for it, you need to get your own understanding. But yet, I'm supposed to be worried about what your "final conclusion" is?

Let me know when you leave the victim role and take responsibility for yourself.





[edit on 10-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Dude I'm not pointing a finger, I'm just trying to understand where your coming from.

Are you saying (assuming your a christian) that you became this way without knowledge of the bible ?


How did you come to your religious belief?Did god suddenly one day speak to you so you became a christian ?

Or were you raised by your parents this way ?

If I'm coming to the wrong conclusions then fair enough, all I 'm trying to establish is your starting point.

Your knowledge of the xtian god , can only have come from one or all of 3 places ie

God him/her/it self

Through reading copies of ancient manuscripts

Other people.


If your knowledge of god came direct from god, great I can deal with that and politely enquire why should need to use contradictory, flawed copies of ancient manuscripts, when you have direct communication with the creator of everything.


If your knowledge of god has been obtained from the bibles, then I would ask you how you deal with the errors and contradictions of the bibles which were written by men.

Finally if you became aware of god through other people, then I would obviously ask you. Do you believe everything other people tell you, what if they are mistaken or lying.


So there you go, we don't have to end up in a slanging match we now have a starting point, If you could kindly say which of the above applies to you and we can take it from there.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
Are you saying (assuming your a christian) that you became this way without knowledge of the bible ?


Yes exactly. I had a vision and then gained all kinds of knowledge after. Then I started seeing bible quotes(specifically the words of Jesus) and knew they were true and why, but that they were never presented to me that way.



How did you come to your religious belief?Did god suddenly one day speak to you so you became a christian ?


You have to seek God, just as the bible says. I rejected christianity because of what they do in the name of Jesus, and became atheist. Then I realized - that was pretty arrogant of me to claim no such thing because I'd never experienced and so I figured there probably was a god, but nobody had a clue about god. And then I started looking for god, and I found god.

Didn't see Jesus, saw the father. I am not bound to any specific idols like Jesus, but I do follow and know that Jesus spoke the truth.



Or were you raised by your parents this way ?


No, I never had religion forced on me. I am not brainwashed. In fact, growing up in the bible belt I was often at odds with the hypocrisy of christians. Even though I wasn't christian, I knew better than to ever say otherwise while in front of my friends parents etc. You just didn't even think about saying you were not a christian where I grew up and I resented it very much.



If I'm coming to the wrong conclusions then fair enough, all I 'm trying to establish is your starting point.

Your knowledge of the xtian god , can only have come from one or all of 3 places ie

God him/her/it self

Through reading copies of ancient manuscripts

Other people.

If your knowledge of god came direct from god, great I can deal with that and politely enquire why should need to use contradictory, flawed copies of ancient manuscripts, when you have direct communication with the creator of everything.


Because I am talking to Christians and people who are looking for answers. It is not the idol that is import, it is the understandings the idol brings. People who worship the idol do not get it, the idol only shows the path.

As I said, I don't need to put things in the context of the bible, but it helps when talking to people who believe in it. And most of the time, I am pointing out what Jesus actually said and stood for, not what the church says.

I do follow the example of Jesus, but not because he is Jesus. I follow him because I know he is right. I do not take authority as truth, I take truth as authority. And the one who in all of history and such that I speaking the truth is Jesus. If his name is Jesus, or one of the others it doesn't matter to me etc. He understood the truth, spoke the truth and followed the truth, no doubt in my mind about it. But you will never see me in a church.



If your knowledge of god has been obtained from the bibles, then I would ask you how you deal with the errors and contradictions of the bibles which were written by men.


Imagine trying to explain and tell someone what a creature is they have never before seen or known like it. Most contradictions I see are the result of people taking the text literally, rather than getting the understandings from it. Alot of it is stories passed down and "borrowed", although as most things were orally recorded at the time, I'm not sure borrowed is the correct word. The truth is universal and can be expressed originally in anyone, meaning not just from memory.



Finally if you became aware of god through other people, then I would obviously ask you. Do you believe everything other people tell you, what if they are mistaken or lying.


No this didn't happen, and no I would say you are a fool to take anyone at their word. I certainly didn't. I demand to understand and know for myself. There is the saying give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. I seriously demand to be taught how to fish, not just accept the fish someone gives me. Everyone should have their own vision, but if you spend your time trying to disprove god, then that is what you are seeking, and that is what you will find. But if you honestly try to look for god then you will also find that. But do not look externally, look internally.

When it happens, you will think you have gone crazy. You will think you just imagined the entire thing. But then you will get reassurances in the strangest of ways which are totally unrelated and understandings that you did not have before, and the entire world appears different. Not different as in a green tree is suddenly somehow "greener", but different in the way you understand things. They make much more sense and you can pretty much see through people and there intent.

I think the church is the church of Satan. I am not the normal mainstream christian. I do not believe in replacing understanding and knowledge with ignorance and faith. The only faith required is that faith that your understandings are true.

If you want to look for god, then you will need to seek. And to seek you need to ask questions and look for valid answers. Reality is perception, so if you seek for ways to disprove god, then you will find that in your perception.

Like answer me this question. Our eyes take in light, then convert that light into electrical patterns that flow through the brain. These are things reconverted back into the brain to present the image "you" see. Now, exactly to whom/what are those images being presented to? And if those images are being presented to something by the body - then how is our body actually "us"? But isn't our body and our physical how we actually see ourselves as being?

You need to ask those deep philosophical questions and gain answers to them. Just think about them logically and you can come to correct answers. Doing this is what is called critical reasoning. Ask questions about consciousness, perspective and so on and your answers will come.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



That was a decent enough reply dude, It intitially gave the impression that you're a Neale Donald Walsche type of theist. However when you mention the satan thing I kinda cross my arms if you know what I mean.

You say your belief in a creator god (call it what you will) is the result of you having a vision which obviously, no one can dispute and I certainly wont try to.


My question to you then is (assuming I'm correct in thinking you have a personal relationship with a god) why would the creator of absoultely everything there is, or will be, need anything ? The implication being it is not whole or is in some way flawed.
How is it conceivably possible for god to not get what god wants ? Again the implication being that if god should want anything then god is lacking something and not omniscient.



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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Mabey its not a matter of 'God wants something'...but a natural order of how things return to their source.

A seed producing a vine, that vine produces the fruits, the fruits themselves hold a seed, that seed will have to return it the Earth to make a new vine.

A natural order...no 'wanting' or 'demanding or 'forcing'.

The orders of how the Earths works is similar to how the order of the force of life and spirit work. A manifestation that returns to its source through a natural order.

The Earth needs everything to return to her in some form for the Earth to continue to flourish. God needs everything that is of Thee to return also in some form. Earth is not immortal though, its realm is not supernatural but material, Earth will one day not exists....the divine life force within living things is different in this one way, it is eternal it has always been and will always be. Time does not exists to this God or Monad of all things because it always IS. Only through experiencing itself outside of itself (like looking in a mirror) does a thing like time exists. Still yet, that time runs on a order that runs from the source of that pure energy that is within all things from you to the stars.

Just thoughts, as always
LV


LV



posted on Dec, 10 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia These things are meaningless and are not to be trusted. Words are like symbols in that they can be thrown around while doing the opposite of what they actually mean. If they are true, then the actions will show it and those actions will say it.

Of course, nothing is ever going to be sold as bad and evil. And that is something I watch out for. For this reason alone, I can never trust anything based on image and words. I have to look at the actions involved to know the truth. This is why names and things were never given to me and why I was shown they were not important, because any image can appear to be good.


I do concur with this. It is well spoken and you are right in what you say. I have seen the Bible used to belittle others who had a genuine heart for G-d and there is a group that is using God to gain support for their crusade to gain land (this is not G-d's Israel mind you, but they deceive us to think otherwise) by slaughtering innocent families who have lived there in peace for centuries. It was these things that I saw and could not accept that turned me away from the notion of god and the bible.

G-d did have to reach me outside of the Bible because, despite seeing some with true faith that was followed by a different knowledge of the bible and the corresponding actions, those people were so few and far between that my overall view of the bible and G-d was one of distaste.

I am empathetic almost to a fault and thus, if G-d was that devious and cunning, I decided I would still do what I knew in my heart was right despite the consequences of doing it without G-d. I think for some of us, we have to go through this process of questioning and searching to find out for ourselves what the Truth is. In the end, after much time of wondering if I was going crazy, there He was. It *was* that simple and yet that profound. Again, this has been VERY recent for me and when I went back and read the Bible as a story, suddenly, it all made sense. It proved itself to me.

A couple of months ago, I was talking to a friend of mine who was going through very similar things and I told him that I sense there were two different G(g)ods being talked about in the Bible. Now, I know there are and thus is the point... Some will see it and use it for themselves to fulfill their needs and desires; some will be taught to view it that way and will run because they don't have it in them to be that way and find disgust that others do; some will come back to it and see it in a new and profound way and the others will keep running.

Point is, I agree. It isn't the words in and of themselves, but when G-d finally has your heart, those words CAN speak from the pages and they will not need interpretation because the interpretation will be your heart when reading them; and there also will be none of it that needs to be denied.


[edit on 10-12-2008 by justamomma]



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