The Religious Case for Gay Marriage

Dooper... whom I have happily placed in ignore has asserted that you cannot pick and chose what you believe to be a Christian...

HOWEVER that is exactly what funnymentalists (and it doesn't matter what religion those funnymentalists are) do... they chose a version of their faith.... after all he could have been a Unitarian or Quaker as opposed to say a pentecostal or Baptist... and then pick and chose from the teachings....

I don't suppose he stones adulterers to death, or burns witches at the stake, or sacrifice a spotless lamb on an altar or have multiple wives or owns slaves....

.... I doubt that he follows the dietary laws in the Bible...

... and so many more... which if he were taking the Bible literally and following all of its laws and stipulations, he would be required to...

... In short he picks what he chooses to follow from both testaments and then has the gonads to lecture us about following God's laws.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by grover]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by skeptic1

 

If incest, bestiality, and all these things are so forbidden, and the analogy is that being gay is not illegal, then why does this gay marriage thing come up only now?

If it was such a "acceptable" thing, why in this country did it wait 200 years to come up?

Marriage for millennia has been between man and woman. Period.

You want civil rights? Get them another way.

But don't drag the institution of marriage down in the gutter just so this aberrant behavior can somehow become more socially "acceptable."

I see a lot of 'end times' threads, and if this spiral downward of our moral base continues, then, it just may be a good thing.

Zeus, while slow in reviewing his notebook, always checks.

I don't know? Why did they wait 200 years to recognize black people as a "whole" person and give them the same rights as white people in this country? We are bass-ackwards in a lot of things.

And, pardon me, but us heterosexuals have already dragged marriage into the gutter. How? Let's see....that 50% divorce rate comes to mind, and guess what? Gay folks didn't have a thing in the world to do with that.

You are entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but those two things do not give YOU and YOUR ILK the right to take rights away from and deny rights to people you don't agree with.

And, for the record, I am straight and in a monogamous relationship. But, some of my best friends are gay, as well as some family members. And, guess what? They are no less human than you and they are no less deserving of rights than either of us are.

People here in the south used the same sort of reasoning to justify owning slaves... because it was Biblical.

Funny thing is, I have no problem with gay marriage per se, believe it or not.

I have more of a problem with the whole concept of "gay" due to all the aforementioned reasons, and a few more.

And with that, I would suggest we all take a deep breath and go back to the OP and try to get this thread back on topic. Poor Grover's probably sitting there wondering why this has expanded into such generality on the issue, when really the issue is "The religious case for gay marriage."

And mystiq, good posts with good points, very well written. They have more of an affect than you might realize.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Poor Grover's probably sitting there wondering why this has expanded into such generality on the issue, when really the issue is "The religious case for gay marriage."

If you think this has expanded you should go read my thread:

The Top Ten Reasons Gay Marriage is Un-American

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dooper and Sty would both benefit from reading it though I somehow doubt that they would understand it even if they did.

If we don't talk about these things we can never reach an understanding.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by grover]

reply to post by intrepid

Intrepid, you're again using a non-argument. You choose opinion, not teachings. If you don't believe the teachings, and instead select what you like and don't like, then according to the very scriptures, then while you may call yourself a Christian, you ain't.

What a silly response. I don't write in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. Do you? I read English translations, four parallel translations specifically, and I have read the same identical same language we are using right now - English.

There's never been a book so reviewed, the texts so pored over, texts so carefully examined. Even the Dead Sea scrolls are a testament to the originality and accuracy of the texts.

Is your God so small and impotent that He wouldn't make certain that what is presented as His Word, would be accurate, and not a jumble of inaccuracies.

Maybe your God would. Mine won't.

Your supposition that the text is vague, mistaken, or wrong is blatant speculation. So the "Thou shalt not commit murder" is wrong? Well according to you, just how should it be written, please give us the original texts you will be using, and is your specialty Aramaic, Greek, or Hebrew?

Please inform us. I love speaking to scholars. I love gaining insights into their method to minimize error.

You like that "perfection concept?" If you'd read more, you just may actually understand it.

Let's get this one out of the way first:

Col. 2:9 "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead (trinity) bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power."

I John 4:12 "No man hath seen the (Father) God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Col. 1:21 "And you, that were sometime alientated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled. 22. In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreprovable in His sight. Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus."

2Col. 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord.

Fifty more verses point to being enabled to be perfect only through obedience, cleansing ourselves of all filthiness, whereby the sacrifice of Jesus will enable that cleansing, and thus our presentation of perfection.

Originally posted by dooper
Intrepid, you're again using a non-argument. You choose opinion, not teachings. If you don't believe the teachings, and instead select what you like and don't like, then according to the very scriptures, then while you may call yourself a Christian, you ain't.

First off, that is what you are doing. Also ignoring scripture pointed out to you.

Secondly, what makes you think I'm a Christian. I'm not but pretty well read.

*snipped, irrelevant*

So answer me this question, that I already posed. Christ preached for over 3 years, don't you think if he had wanted to say that homosexuality was an abomination he would have taken a few minutes to do so?

reply to post by skeptic1


You'd be surprised at what "rights" I would deny others. Bestiality is not to be allowed, and I don't care how "enlightened" I'd be if I'd just go along with the flow.

That thing about going with the flow. Soon you find yourself so far downstream, you can't find your way back.

You may have gay friends, and good for you. That's something to write home about. I'm sure momma's real proud.

I don't care what these abberants do in the privacy of their own homes. They can practice their lisps, break out the swiss cheese and gerbils for all I care. But keep it to themselves. Civil unions? Fine.

Marriage? Give me a break.

This is nasty business. No getting around it. It's abberant behavior. No getting around that either. Nice people? Who cares, because a lot of us don't give a rat's fuzzy pucker.

You can't take a racial misdeed and compare it to an abberation.

It's not healthy, it's abberant, hell, it's just twisted. And through their damned nastiness, a lot of innocent folks, including chldren caught a terrible disease and died. It appears it will practically wipe out Africa before it's over. Tell me it isn't nasty.

reply to post by intrepid

He's already said so. Very clearly. Remember, I and the Father are one?

And not everything Christ said was recorded in the New Testament. And the fact that you aren't a Christian was already made known.

No problem with it, believe me. It's not something one can conceal very easily during a topic like this.

Originally posted by dooper
You may have gay friends, and good for you. That's something to write home about. I'm sure momma's real proud.

I don't care what these abberants do in the privacy of their own homes. They can practice their lisps, break out the swiss cheese and gerbils for all I care. But keep it to themselves. Civil unions? Fine.

This is nasty business. No getting around it. It's abberant behavior. No getting around that either. Nice people? Who cares, because a lot of us don't give a rat's fuzzy pucker.

How Christian of you. Just had to point that out.

Yes, this is a 1 liner. Deducting 20 points from myself.

Originally posted by dooper
He's already said so. Very clearly. Remember, I and the Father are one?

No, that's your interpretation. As I pointed out earlier, and was ignored, not all Christians believe in the Trinity.

And not everything Christ said was recorded in the New Testament.

Well this seems so damn important to Christians, don't you think he would have spelled it out? So you are now saying that Jesus never went on record as saying that homosexuality is an abomination. Thanks, I knew you would eventually come around.

And the fact that you aren't a Christian was already made known.

Really? You wouldn't know it from your post above.

reply to post by dooper


People like you make me sick. That's just how it is. If a Mod wants to warn me or deduct points, then I will take it.

People who cloak themselves in religion in order to justify their hatred and ignorance just make me sick. You twist the "goodness" in spirituality, call it religion, and use it to make yourself feel better about the shortcomings within yourself. It is disgusting.

You have no right to judge anyone else. Your God, His Son, and their religion specifically admonishes against judging others. But, hey, only the teachings that you think prove your point of view count, right??

I take it back; you don't make me sick. You just make me really, really sad.

reply to post by intrepid


Intrepid, you won't honestly consider the Bible so our discussion is pointless, and I much rather go to other threads and converse with those who have a basic grasp of the topic at hand.

The Old Testament was given as law. If I were to sum up the Old Testament, I'd have to say it would say: Obedience.

The New Testament if I had to narrow it down was Forgiveness through obedience, enabled by the blood shed on our behalf.

Now if the same God has said the same things for thousands of years, he hasn't changed, and will not change, then why I ask you, an intelligent man, to keep having to repeat the same thing. Keep in mind, he called this an abomination - that's rather significant. Easy to remember. Simple to understand.

But the Bible also teaches us that there are those who you can show the truth to, and they will not understand.

Thus, I'm off this thread. It's a complete waste of time.

Maybe one day in the hereafter - if there's such a thing - we'll see how things turn out.

Until then, I could care less.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by skeptic1

 

You'd be surprised at what "rights" I would deny others. Bestiality is not to be allowed, and I don't care how "enlightened" I'd be if I'd just go along with the flow.

That thing about going with the flow. Soon you find yourself so far downstream, you can't find your way back.

You may have gay friends, and good for you. That's something to write home about. I'm sure momma's real proud.

I don't care what these abberants do in the privacy of their own homes. They can practice their lisps, break out the swiss cheese and gerbils for all I care. But keep it to themselves. Civil unions? Fine.

Marriage? Give me a break.

This is nasty business. No getting around it. It's abberant behavior. No getting around that either. Nice people? Who cares, because a lot of us don't give a rat's fuzzy pucker.

You can't take a racial misdeed and compare it to an abberation.

It's not healthy, it's abberant, hell, it's just twisted. And through their damned nastiness, a lot of innocent folks, including chldren caught a terrible disease and died. It appears it will practically wipe out Africa before it's over. Tell me it isn't nasty.

Wow. And thanks for the reminder why this Christian wont step foot inside a church.

I have plenty of gay friends and NONE of them are as you describe. In fact, most of them, you would never know they were gay because.....drum roll......they are normal people just like I am (and im straight).

There are PLENTY of straight people who live nasty, unhealthy, unwholesome and twisted lives and 'F' up their marriages and children.
So again, your accusation is nothing short of ingnorance.

I know MANY homosexual relationships that are far more healthy, loyal and perfect then many hetro marriages.



I used to live inside a cramped up tiny box too. But after awhile I was sufficating and my mind was screaming to expand and learn and be all that it could be. What a refreshing feeling it was the day I decided to unhinge my tiny cell and look outside and even climb outside and look around and learn. What a wonderful world existed that I never knew about.

reply to post by dooper


well - I can't make any kind of argument using scripture

but, I have read through the bible some - you know, from time to time

wow! there's A LOT of words in there - isn't there?

how many of those words were used to explain Gods position on this particular aberration - the one we're all talking about right now?

Originally posted by dooper
Intrepid, you won't honestly consider the Bible so our discussion is pointless, and I much rather go to other threads and converse with those who have a basic grasp of the topic at hand.

Don't know where you get that from, oh wait, I do. I just don't buy YOUR interpretation. I've read the bible many times. I was raised JW, I'm quite familiar with that tome.

The Old Testament was given as law. If I were to sum up the Old Testament, I'd have to say it would say: Obedience.

The New Testament if I had to narrow it down was Forgiveness through obedience, enabled by the blood shed on our behalf.

Here's my post on the differences of the OT and the NT:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thus, I'm off this thread. It's a complete waste of time.

Until then, I could care less.

Gotcha, you couldn't answer the question about Jesus taking the time to spell this out.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by intrepid]

The personal attacks will stop now.

Post to the topic and not to the poster.

There will not be another warning.

Recall the topic: The Religious Case for Gay Marriage.

Thank you.

reply to post by skeptic1

Wasn't judging. Simply reading the texts. I mistakenly thought that the topic of this post was the "religious case for gay marriage."

I post the texts specifically, and very, very, plainly showing that God calls it an abomination, and puts it right beside bestiality.

That my dear, isn't judgement. That's quotation.

Since this was supposed to be a religious slant, I find it stunning that some folks can't understand a simple, basic statement.

So if me quoting scripture is puking you out, then stay off these threads where the term "religious" is included.

There's nothing pleasant about truth.

Intrepid will wiggle and deny parts and when those are argued, wiggles another part, and guess what? He's on a topic that includes the religious slant, and he doesn't believe, and then turns around and claims he's "well-read."

It doesn't do much good to be well read if a very simple statement can't be understood. It's selected ignorance.

And there's no helping that.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by skeptic1

 

Wasn't judging.

Everything you've written is judgmental and arrogant. And you hide behind religion as an excuse... if you are bigoted against gays or anybody else fine but stop hiding behind the Bible and using God as your justification... its nausating.

And I note that you ignored my post at the top of the page about how you pick and chose from the Bible when you claim its absolute law.

In case you've forgotten:

Dooper has asserted that you cannot pick and chose what you believe to be a Christian...

HOWEVER that is exactly what funnymentalists (and it doesn't matter what religion those funnymentalists are) do... they chose a version of their faith.... after all he could have been a Unitarian or Quaker as opposed to say a pentecostal or Baptist... and then pick and chose from the teachings....

I don't suppose he stones adulterers to death, or burns witches at the stake, or sacrifice a spotless lamb on an altar or have multiple wives or owns slaves....

.... I doubt that he follows the dietary laws in the Bible...

... and so many more... which if he were taking the Bible literally and following all of its laws and stipulations, he would be required to...

... In short he picks what he chooses to follow from both testaments and then has the gonads to lecture us about following God's laws.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover

I don't pick and choose. I quoted specific scriptures in the interest of saving space, but it won't matter. You folks won't open a Bible and read it for yourself.

And yet you're so certain that I'm selective.

Review my posts, write down the selections, get out your Bible and read them in context for yourself.

But you won't.

Like that priest told Galileo when he was offered to see through the telescope for himself, to confirm what Galileo was claiming "I dare not lest I become like you."

Whatever.