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A Birth Certificate Study - Mine

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posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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Since each state is different in labeling their certificates and the process by which one can attain either a "birth certificate" or "certification of live birth" - considering this is a federal job - maybe instead of using a birth certificate to prove he's a "natural born citizen" - maybe they should be using the hospital records. After I brought her home, I scanned all my toddler's records - and they have her footprint on them, weight, height, breathing, skin color, apgar scores, everything about the delivery, etc. Everything has doctor's signatures and hospital stampings. This should clear things up if he can get hospital records, right?



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by themamayada
Since each state is different in labeling their certificates and the process by which one can attain either a "birth certificate" or "certification of live birth" - considering this is a federal job - maybe instead of using a birth certificate to prove he's a "natural born citizen" - maybe they should be using the hospital records. After I brought her home, I scanned all my toddler's records - and they have her footprint on them, weight, height, breathing, skin color, apgar scores, everything about the delivery, etc. Everything has doctor's signatures and hospital stampings. This should clear things up if he can get hospital records, right?


It would really be pretty intrusive to demand of presidents that they give us information that includes everything about their delivery. That's personal to the mother, and I certainly wouldn't want the details of my deliveries spread around the States.

Obama has allowed his birth certificate to be splashed all over the web. How many other presidents have we expected this from?

Some will say: "oh, but that is only a Certificate of Live Birth, not a birth certificate!"

However, by doing that they are only showing their ignorance. Except for what is issued to the mother originally, the State of Hawaii only issues one type of birth certificate, and that is titled Certificate of Live Birth.

The Certificate of Live Birth only contains details which are copied from the original birth certificate. This, as it states Obama was born in Honolulu county in Hawaii, is legal proof that Obama was born in Honolulu county in Hawaii.

People wanting to disregard this certificate should perhaps look at the Constitution.


The United States Constitution
Article. IV. - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 05:01 AM
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The problem everyone must realize, is that the Kenyan government claims Obama.

There may in-fact be a birth certificate for him over there, too.




posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
I was beginning to think no one would want to play.


Sounds like the first 2 are photocopies of the vault original, issued in the 70s, when it was common to issue actual copies and the 3rd is the short form, issued more recently in 2004.

Very interesting! My friend's also said Certificate of Vital Record at the very top, but under that it said Certificate of Live Birth. Yours don't have "birth" in their titles?


So, why don't these people filing the lawsuits have this information, or are they just that desperate to ignore it?



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by themamayada
Since each state is different in labeling their certificates and the process by which one can attain either a "birth certificate" or "certification of live birth" - considering this is a federal job - maybe instead of using a birth certificate to prove he's a "natural born citizen" - maybe they should be using the hospital records. After I brought her home, I scanned all my toddler's records - and they have her footprint on them, weight, height, breathing, skin color, apgar scores, everything about the delivery, etc. Everything has doctor's signatures and hospital stampings. This should clear things up if he can get hospital records, right?


It would really be pretty intrusive to demand of presidents that they give us information that includes everything about their delivery. That's personal to the mother, and I certainly wouldn't want the details of my deliveries spread around the States.

Obama has allowed his birth certificate to be splashed all over the web. How many other presidents have we expected this from?

Some will say: "oh, but that is only a Certificate of Live Birth, not a birth certificate!"

However, by doing that they are only showing their ignorance. Except for what is issued to the mother originally, the State of Hawaii only issues one type of birth certificate, and that is titled Certificate of Live Birth.

The Certificate of Live Birth only contains details which are copied from the original birth certificate. This, as it states Obama was born in Honolulu county in Hawaii, is legal proof that Obama was born in Honolulu county in Hawaii.

People wanting to disregard this certificate should perhaps look at the Constitution.


The United States Constitution
Article. IV. - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


Plus a HIPPA violation.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
Its already been well established that the people who are pretending Obama is a Muslim from Kenya are delusional and ignorant. We understand them to be less culturally competent than us.

These threads are draining the ATS collective energy. Just my opinion don't flip out.


I don't understand your post. Obama really is a Muslim from Kenya, that is already a well known and documented fact. Grew up as a muslim in Indonesia. I think what we are talking about here is him proving that all the stuff surrounding his place of birth, and his parents citizenship is still up in the air. If it wasn't up in the air still, there would be no more posts.

Doesn't matter either or, our government is a fake charade and hasn't been "for the people" in so long most have forgot why it's even there. Keep your eyes open, America just witnessed the "perfect" brainwashing of it's people.



I assume this was a "tongue-in-cheek" post. A well known fact? By whom? The patients at the state mental hospital? This is well known by the same people who insist FDR was a member of the CPUSA and that aliens had JFK killed because he wouldn't go along with the new world order. Paxcil works well - try some.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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Thanks again for all the responses! And please, let's try to keep this less confrontational and more about fact-finding. I want to know about the certificates themselves. The Obama thing can be argued in a ton of other threads.
Thanks.


Originally posted by redhatty
But as I have posted somewhere in the forums before, my BC is full of false information.


This is an interesting point. The vault original CAN have false information. On my certificate, there's a place for "Informant's Name or Signature" and it was filled in with my mother's name. Whatever information she gave them they filled in. And there is also one piece of false information on it. But the important stuff (date, place of birth) is all correct. The doctors and nurses would have to be in cahoots to falsify that. That's pretty strange and I doubt it happens often.


Originally posted by themamayada
I scanned all my toddler's records - and they have her footprint on them, weight, height, breathing, skin color, apgar scores, everything about the delivery, etc. Everything has doctor's signatures and hospital stampings. This should clear things up if he can get hospital records, right?


What you have is a "souvenir" birth certificate. Read about it in the Original Post. If I were you, I would send away for a "real" birth certificate.



Originally posted by aero56
So, why don't these people filing the lawsuits have this information, or are they just that desperate to ignore it?


I'm sure you'd have to ask them. I will say that I read that one guy, upon finding that the Supreme Court would probably NOT hear Obama's birth case, immediately started on a lawsuit to sue him for some campaign finance funds. This tells me that he just wants Obama out and doesn't necessarily believe that he's foreign-born. It's my personal opinion that many people who are so gung-ho about getting Obama out don't care what reason is used.


I'll be posting again after some research.

Does anyone have a certificate titled "Certification of Live Birth"?



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Are we missing the point? Obama can be born in Kenya and Hawaii will issue a Cert. He doesn't have to be born in Hawaii. This is not uncommon. Why does he fight this? LOL. President McCain or Biden? That's the question.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:24 AM
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My parents' copy of the "vault copy" of my birth certificate has been gone for years. We lost it while moving. This is very common in my experience (the same thing has happened to almost everyone I know.) All I have now is the more recently issued "short form." I asked if there was a way for me to get a copy of the original old one, and I was told that I couldn't.

If that's the case, then I can't imagine how Obama could either if neither he nor his family have anything other than the "short form."

I didn't vote for Obama, but there are really only two possibilities here. Either, 1) he's a natural born citizen, or 2) he isn't and everyone who has vetted him officially is conspiring to hide that fact.

Either way, there's nothing to be done. If he's a citizen, it doesn't matter. If he's not, no one is going to be allowed to do anything about it.

My hypothesis (hypothesis because I cannot prove it definitively) is that he a natural born citizen. My other hypothesis is that almost no other president elect would be subjected to this level of vetting in my opinion, not even the one leaving office at the moment despite his extreme unpopularity (I'm not bashing; I'm just observing.) McCain's Panama birth, of course, sparked similar concerns, yet they never reached this level of intensity (and no, I don't just mean since the election ended.)

Again; just observing, and hypothesizing. Not stating anything as fact or belief.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by aero56

So, why don't these people filing the lawsuits have this information, or are they just that desperate to ignore it?


Berg has been filing cases in which he actually quotes "internet rumour" as evidence. He collects donations on his site, and my guess is that he is not interested in facts and not trying to win a case. He's only trying to inflame gullible minds and make a killing out of the donations he's getting.

Donofrio's case, which is the one the Supreme Court looks like on Monday making a decision on whether or not to hear, accepts that Obama is born in Hawaii. He is charging that none of 3 candidates, McCain, Obama and Calero, (the guy who ran for the Socialist party,) are are natural born citizens. With McCain and Calero, it's about their place of birth. With Obama, it's because his father was not an American citizen.

So the current lawsuit does not question the validity of Obama's birth certificate.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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Now obviously being from New York State my BC is probably what they all should look like, NY being so important and all.


Forget all that "live birth" BS, mine says Certified Transcript of Birth.
State of New York
Dept. of Health
Full name of child
Sex
Date of Birth
Time of Birth
Place of Birth (city/state, not hospital)
Maiden Name of Mother
Name of Father
Date Filed (15 days after my birthday, wanted to be sure I made it?)
Local Registration Number (wow, only 3 digits, I must be old! Number that year maybe?)

This is to certify that the information concerning the birth of the above named person is a true and accurate transcription of the the information recorded on the original local certificate of birth on file with the local registrar of Tompkins County, New York.

Signature of Local Registrar
Date

Do not accept this transcript unless the raised seal of the issuing locality is affixed thereon.
Any alteration invalidates this certificate
See reverse side for a list of security features used in this form.
DOH-2673 (9/2002)

Valid document contains watermark of state seal on back - hold up to light to validate.

On the back ... Safety Features Used In This Form
1. Chain link watermark visible when document is held up to a light source.
2. Press number and bar code in upper right corner of document front.
3. Blue border the red to blue to red background with black workings on document text.
4. Void appears on photocopies made on either a black and white or color photocopier.
5. Fiber thread marks visible when document front viewed with a black light.

Whew, and that just the copy.

Now for the fun part. The raised seal is just that, an impression stamped into the paper, not inked. You have to really look for it and my copy is only a few years old.


More fun below..



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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QUESTION:
If I adopt a child from China and get a birth Certificate for her here, where does it say the child is born? Here or China?
.....................................................................

Here is what I have found as regards "Certificate" vs. "Certification":

The answer was actually in the first link posted


Encyclopedia Birth Certificate

Certification is simply the name sometimes used for the "short form" or computer printout... We have to remember that all states are different, so it's impossible to say that one rule applies to all. See Hawaii's rule below.




Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are cheaper than photocopies and much more easily accessible. Limited information is taken from the original birth record (the long form)...
...
Sample of a short form birth certificate (certification of birth)


Sample of Certification

Why these lawyers and video-makers can't find this information, I have no idea...


More Specifically:

Department of Hawaiian Homelands

This is talking about people applying for Hawaiian Homeland status. They require a Certificate (long form) because they need some of the information from that (parents' place of birth) - not because the information is any more valid than that which is on the Certification (short form).



DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout).


Florida



In Florida, a "certificate of live birth" is the original certificate completed at the time of the child's birth.
...
A "Certification of Birth" also known as a "computer copy" is a document issued by the Florida Office of Vital Statistics that only includes some of the information from the original "certificate of live birth".


So, in Florida, as well as Hawaii, the "Certificate" is the long form and the "Certification" is the short form computer printout (extracted from the long form).

Each state has its own Health Department and that's why they handle things slightly differently. For example, my friend's certificate in the original post is clearly a "short form" but it's NOT a simple computer printout (the border is raised and the paper is thick and fibrous - like zlots331 I'm guessing) and Oregon calls it a Certificate as well. They may have a third form called a Certification, but after a cursory search, I didn't find it.

Conclusion: The difference between a Certificate and a Certification is in amount of information only. The information on a certification is the SAME as the original birth record.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by mel1962
 


exactly.
i think certification of birth varies state to state. my copy in no way resembles my original birth certificate.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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I worked for the Tompkins County, New York Health Dept, back in the 1970's.
We were the local branch of the state health dept. and our office included the Environmental Health Division (mine), County Nurse Dept., and the Office of Vital Statistics which harbored birth and death certificates. I knew the lady in the VS dept quite well, I could hit her office with a rock from my office. Nobody, and I mean nobody, was allowed in that office but her. You wanted to see your BC, you got a copy. Period.

I remember seeing my souvenir hospital certificate a few times (have no idea where it is now). It was real cute, had my little baby footprint, a lock of my hair, and the little bead bracelet that I had around my chubby little wrist. Cute, but worthless.

Thanks BH, you da best.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by zlots331]



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

This is an interesting point. The vault original CAN have false information. On my certificate, there's a place for "Informant's Name or Signature" and it was filled in with my mother's name. Whatever information she gave them they filled in. And there is also one piece of false information on it. But the important stuff (date, place of birth) is all correct. The doctors and nurses would have to be in cahoots to falsify that. That's pretty strange and I doubt it happens often.

[


My birth certificate was amendended after issue. Nothing was "incorrect" on my certificate, but it was amended to include my parents' middle names. So the copy I have is two pages long. If I were to lose it, I would get a shorter version, I'm sure.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Barack Obama claims “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation” in the Berg case and has filed a request for dismissal and a protective order. Berg’s filing asks for copies of his birth certificate, citizenship records, passport and travel records, and other documentation proving citizenship in the U.S. as well as other countries.


they then filed a motion for DISMISSAL and for a PROTECTIVE ORDER.


Their reasoning for requesting a protective order is that revealing the information (birth certificate, passports, citizenship in other countries) would “cause a defined and serious injury” to Obama and/or the DNC. They say revealing these documents raises a “legitimate privacy concern” and the above mentioned risk that “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation.” Then they claim Berg has no standing to ask for it.


www.flds.ws...

[edit on 103131p://bSunday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Stormdancer, if the text in your external tags above is in the document you linked, I cannot find it. I found a computerized copy of the dismissal and as expected, the text you posted is NOT found there.

Computerized Copy

I believe your text is from blogs or other opinion pieces. And I have no reason to think it's true.

If you would like to talk about birth certificates, please feel free to add further to the thread.
If your wish is to mis-link external quotes and try to pass them off as connected, please don't do it here.

Thanks.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Thanks BH for calling my attention to the thread. Great idea!


I have the original that they gave my mom when she requested it two years after I was born. It is titled:

Registrar of Vital Statistics Certified Copy
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Department for Human Resources
Registrar of Vital Statics
Certificate of Live Birth

It then lists the following information:

File No.
Registrar's No.
Registration District No.
Primary Registration District No.
Child Name
Date of Birth
Hour
Sex
This Birth (to list if it's single, twins, etc.)
If Not Single Birth
County of Birth
City, Town, or Location of Birth
Inside City Limits
Hospital Name
Mother - Maiden Name
Mother's Age
Mother's State of Birth
Mother's Social Security Number
Father - Name
Father's Age
Father's State of Birth
Father's Social Security Number
Informant
Informant's Relation to Child
Signature of Certifier
Date Signed
Attendant - M.D., D.O., Midwife, Other, (Specify)
Certifer Name
Certifier Mailing Address
Registrar - Signature
Date Received by Local Registrar

Mine was signed by the doctor and received by the local registrar on the same day I was born. My mother was the informant and the doctor was the certifier. It has a raised seal that is a bit obscured by the following block of text, though you can see it clearly if you turn the paper over:

I, __________________, Registrar of Vital Statistics, hereby certify this to be a true and correct copy of the certificate of birth of the person therein named, and that the original certificate is registered under the file number shown. In testimony thereof I have hereunto subscribed my name and caused the official seal of the Office of Vital Statistics to be affixed at Frankfort, Kentucky this ___ day of ____, 1984.

_________________ _________________________
Fee Control Number ____________, State Registrar

* Areas above with _______ are filled in on my copy but I removed them while typing.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Barack Obama claims “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation” in the Berg case and has filed a request for dismissal and a protective order. Berg’s filing asks for copies of his birth certificate, citizenship records, passport and travel records, and other documentation proving citizenship in the U.S. as well as other countries.


they then filed a motion for DISMISSAL and for a PROTECTIVE ORDER.


Their reasoning for requesting a protective order is that revealing the information (birth certificate, passports, citizenship in other countries) would “cause a defined and serious injury” to Obama and/or the DNC. They say revealing these documents raises a “legitimate privacy concern” and the above mentioned risk that “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation.” Then they claim Berg has no standing to ask for it.


www.flds.ws...

[edit on 103131p://bSunday2008 by Stormdancer777]


Actually, there would have been no reason for a lawyer to respond to the case in this way. From everything I've read, they filed a motion for dismissal on lack of jurisdiction and the protective order was placed on pending the decision of the dismissals. Here is the true dismissal.. And here is a copy of theprotective order..

What many are not looking at is that Berg requested 17 different documents from Obama, including "a copy of your entire presidential file pertaining to be vetted", a copy of his college applications.

Because of the types of documents requested, it could result in "annoyance, embarrasment, oppression, or undue burden or expense.' (emphasis mine).

Since the document was quoting a rule, in which all reasons would be valid, it seems like bloggers are only finding the reasons that satisfies their curiousity..not the true reasons..annoyance or undue burden of expense.

What you mentioned was internet rumor only. When we claim to want the "truth" and spout lies and rumor as fact, we really don't want the truth..we want our version of the truth.

edited because I found the protective order...only want to post the truth.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by its bologna]

[edit on 7-12-2008 by its bologna]

[edit on 7-12-2008 by its bologna]



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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This post has merit. My father was military & stationed in France. My mother used her passport which was amended to include me for years. Stating that the original was lost during travels we incurred. I had to get a copy in 1985. After a ordeal with the American Consulate & $50. They sent me a copy. It states Department of State Foreign Service of The United States of America “REPORT OF BIRTH”. Along with all of the parental info, including their births & occupations.
On the back is a note explaining that I was granted provisional citizenship by remaining in the USA for 5 years between the ages of 14 & 28. I am a fairly new member, so I am not allowed to post images yet. [Sorry, I sit back & watch & listen!!! But I do have a scanned copy.]
My husband was born in LA, USA, he has one of the short ones with foot prints. It has an imprint of the seal of Louisiana, so the U S Government accepts it with no questions. It also has a pic that says “A Mother’s Pride/A Father’s Joy”.
Then for the last note, My daughter was also born abroad. Her father was military. After an ugly divorce he took her BC & my passport. He claims to have lost them, she has tried numerous times to get a copy from the American Consulate. Who states it is not filed. I happen to have a copy of “The Certificate of Live Birth” in my medical records, with all of the information on it. But the BC still cannot be found. The Dept of VS is “considering to allow her to use a certified copy” of my med records to prove her citizenship. It feels to me that USA’s government makes the rules as they go.




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