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McKinnons last stand

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posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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If he did find something he should blurt it out or blab it. what's he doing, holding out for cash for his story?

I think he's going to get locked up and/or silenced forever. He should forget about trying to get paid for the details, and just blurt it all out since he's going away for life anyway, he may as well commit "Treason" (is that what you call it in the usa?).

Maybe he should do it anonymously.

================

my apologies, seems he found evidence of suppressed ufo technology.


books.google.co.uk...,M1

[edit on 6-12-2008 by contactee]

[edit on 6-12-2008 by contactee]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
Free McKinnon!

OK there i was on topic.


What makes you so sure thats me in the pic? And even if it is, how could you possibly know the context. And who pays that much attention to avatars anyways. People have all kinds of crazy ones on here....where have you been?




This is off topic but all I see in that picture is a scared kid holding his teddy bear. I feel sorry for the guy, whomever it is, who thinks that kind of pose is cool. Its just tragic.

The McKinnon example shows just how extremely evil the government is. The are making an example of him to scare off others, since they dont know how to secure their systems.


[edit on 6-12-2008 by Copernicus]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

This is off topic but all I see in that picture is a scared kid holding his teddy bear. I feel sorry for the guy, whomever it is, who thinks that kind of pose is cool. Its just tragic.


Yeah, pretty sad really! But that Teddy Bear gag was well funny!

On Topic:

It's still not very clear what McKinnon did and didn't find. I've heard rumors from radio show presenters but very little actually confirmed by McKinnon himself. In fact he sounded quite aloof in the C2C interview I heard.

IRM



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
If anyone in the entire US Government has a hint of a brain cell, once they get McKinnon over here in the States, the NSA should offer him a job, doing what he apparently does very well. But doing it FOR the government, not looting their own little nests.


What he did well?

The dolt saw a file list of names and cannot even remember ONE. He did not save a copy but went on to look for pictures

He saw an image of a spaceship but does not know enough that if he saw it on his screen there would be a copy of it still in the internet cache that he could pull up after he was cut off?

And you want to hire this guy to fix security? That is about as smart as selling our Port control to Dubai

Because of this hoopla over this case the DoD has tightened secure and has even removed some previously publicly available material?

He found computers without passwords. That is like you not having an alarm on your house and leaving the door closed but unlocked... doesn't make a guy a hero going into that house and rousting your files in your desk then calling you to let you know you left your door unlocked

Beside which you cannot hack the really secret stuff as its not even on the net. All you might get is some sensitive stuff that some guy is working on on his computer

And to top it off he was a NON AMERICAN snooping in AMERICAN computers... that makes it espionage still punishable by death last I checked



...---...

[edit on 6-12-2008 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 08:50 AM
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I've always commented on McKinnon threads because there seems to be two common mistakes.

1. He's a super genius hacker

2. He did no damage

1. McKinnon used a simple perl script to enter blank and common passwords into standard forms. To explain this, imagine you log into a web page. You are prompted for a username and password. Basically he wrote a small program to do this automatically entering blank data or factory data hoping someone hadn't changed it. This isn't a genius super hacker, this is someone trying their luck and relying on human stupidity. Of course he didn't enter it into web pages i just used this as an example of the prompts he encountered.

2. Whilst he apparently did no direct damage those who know about computer security will know the costs involved. So let me lay it out for those who don't know.

In situations such as these when sensitive data has been compromised the standard procedure is to completely overhaul the entire computer and check for any malicious software. This can take literally days not just hours. Now as we're dealing with government computers i am willing to bet they checked the hard drives down to the last megabyte and then scrapped them after taking the important data off of them. This would make sense to be absolutely secure.

The hard drives are inexpensive but the amount of man hours to check, transfer and then reinstall computers really does add up if you consider this attack compromised an entire network. We're talking thousands of individual computers, changing the access data of thousands of employees and then reviewing the rest of the military computers to see if they also havn't been secured.

However lets be fair. McKinnon should be tried within the UK as the crime was committed here and i fail to see why we are even considering kicking him out of this country to be tried somewhere else. We should stop pandering to the USA, we are not the 51st state we are a sovereign nation!

The sentence seems to be based upon the USA's embarrassment. Their systems wern't secured at a basic level and they're really hurting at the international shame, especially since it seems that thousands of other people were online accessing the same information McKinnion was. They are just trying to make an example of him in an attempt to scare others off.

McKinnion was an idiot. The fact he did this from his own home with little attempt at hiding his location shows that he is not exactly a mastermind or even a competent hacker.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by theresult
I knew someone!! lol who hacked hollywood.com for trailers, and he was so kind to send them an email to let them know how easy it was to bypass there.. you cant save our trailers stuff..
They sent him and email back saying thank you.


Yes, at least his case has exposed just how incompetent and lax the security systems actualy were- so some good may come of it.
Whatever the case ,it does appear the authorities have gone a little overboard in claiming he caused 'hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage to computer systems' -also the proposed prison sentence seems hystericaly out of proportion to what he actualy did.
Its also interesting that he mentioned there were lots of other professional hackers exploring the system whilst he was in there.
I read in this article that he has Aspergers syndrome and his condition may be used to fight the extradition:

McKinnon has admitted to hacking into US military systems between 2001 and 2002, but says he should not be extradited to the US as he was only looking for hidden evidence of UFOs.

The US government says he caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to military computer systems.

McKinnon has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, an autistic spectrum disorder that can lead to obsessive behaviour and poor social interaction.

His condition may be used to fight the extradition.

www.computerweekly.com...


They should give him a job lol not lock him up.


Maybe hes been moonlighting for them already

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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"Non-Terrestrial Officers"

Here's the original article I read on the case on Rense.com about 2.5 years ago:

www.rense.com...

I'm certain I wouldn't have been nearly tuned in to this case if, only a few hours before I read the article on Rense, I had a MOST amazing, VERY apparently psychic dream of US military (Thunderbird-looking) planes performing moves that totally defy the laws of (recognized) physics (forward somersaults). (I have a history of many other unexplained experiences). Though Gary isn't talking specifics now, I would wager that what he REALLY did was simply expose the US (or international?) secret space program... One of my earliest blog entries (in September, '07) describes it better. It's titled OFF-PLANET MILITARY:

lightworth.blogspot.com...



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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I actually think he's lying about the UFO stuff. Much of what he claims to have seen is simply things i have already read on the internet. The fact that all this incredible stuff he saw, he didn't capture or even try and write down, sounds more like a fish tale than truth.

That said, I don't believe he did the sort of damage that they're claiming, not if what I have read is true. He's being used as an example, AND, charging him under the Patriot Act, etc, as if he were a terrorist, is a misuse of the law.

Though, "According to his lawyers, the United States offered McKinnon a deal of six months to a year in U.S. federal custody, followed by repatriation by the U.K., where he'd be eligible for parole after six months."

If that is true, it doesn't sound like more than a slap on the hand. But then again, he turn down the offer.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Try him in either location but please for the love of all that is holy just get the trial under way an cut out this blathering about. What he did is a crime irregardless of the state of security on said networks. I will never understand why people excuse his actions simply because they supported their own diluted notions when any other crime they would decry without end, I think the word that applies here is hypocrite. McKinnon is no more a real hacker than that poser Mitnick was (he was a social engineer for the uninformed), neither practiced any of the fundamentals of the trade and have little credibility from either actual hackers or even computer security experts.


Edn

posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


So you blame McKinnon for the US governments blatant lack of security? If they didn't want to spend the money checking there computers after they were compromised maybe they should have spent the money securing there systems in the first place.

If i leave my car unlocked with the keys in the car ive no one to blame when it gets stolen, because it will get stolen. That doesn't mean the theif is innocent he stole my car, but im to blame for putting it there with a giant sign saying 'STEAL ME' just as the government has no one but themselves to blame for leaving there networks insecure.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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I don't think in the end he will be extradited to the U.S ... and I doubt the U.S will ever present the evidence needed to convict him on the serious charges..because the amount of damage they claimed never happened..



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I don't think in the end he will be extradited to the U.S ... and I doubt the U.S will ever present the evidence needed to convict him on the serious charges..because the amount of damage they claimed never happened..


Go back and read the excellent post that explains the cleanup process and all the man-hours involved, now consider that the people fixing this mess likely pull in 60 grand a year (28$/hr) its not hard to see how the magic number was hit when so many systems needed to be pull off-line and checked over with a fine tooth comb.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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What a load of B.s. there's no way he caused that much damage I doubt he's that capable. He walked straight thru their unlocked doors. They probably had someone do the damage on purpose so they could make it even worse to show the media 'look how bad he was' Im not buying, sorry.



Originally posted by Helig

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I don't think in the end he will be extradited to the U.S ... and I doubt the U.S will ever present the evidence needed to convict him on the serious charges..because the amount of damage they claimed never happened..


Go back and read the excellent post that explains the cleanup process and all the man-hours involved, now consider that the people fixing this mess likely pull in 60 grand a year (28$/hr) its not hard to see how the magic number was hit when so many systems needed to be pull off-line and checked over with a fine tooth comb.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Edn
as the government has no one but themselves to blame for leaving there networks insecure.



You all assume that because it wasn't on the news that the government didn't make heads role over this issue but when they do internal discipline they don't call in Fox news at 11 to air their laundry.

I have posted in other GM threads the internal memos from the DoD that resulted from this... here is the info if anyone is interested.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

As to Gary... This happened in 2001 it is now 2008 and he is still in the UK and we are still talking about this case. WTF?

Why is this still news? Why has this not come to trial yet? Why is he still over there? Has it occurred to anyone that there is more to this than meets the eye?

What does Gary say in the original interview about what he saw?




"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.

"Yeah, I looked it up," says Gary, "and it's nowhere. It doesn't mean little green men. What I think it means is not earth-based. I found a list of 'fleet-to-fleet transfers', and a list of ship names. I looked them up. They weren't US navy ships. What I saw made me believe they have some kind of spaceship, off-planet."

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."



If he was truly looking for stuff like that since 1995 you mean to tell me when he found it he couldn't even remember ONE name?

Genius? Super Hacker? gimme a break... I can pull up more data on those 'non terrestrial officers' from military publications.

Here it is in his own words..




Now you want a little direct info on those non terrestrial officers? You can visit .mil sites IF you are within the USA and order publications that have articles like this...


Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specif?ic space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.


High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004
SOURCE: Air Force Space Command
Available by Subscription

Notice the DATE of the standing up of this Cadre? 2001
Notice the DATE when Gary got caught? 2001

Put this moron away and get on with it... he has more press than Bin Laden and he is making a laughing stock of anyone seriously looking for info.





...---...


[edit on 6-12-2008 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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You know what really bothers me about this whole Mckinnon thing?
Any Government worth it's salt would be able to get the same information he did, maybe by different methods but they would be able to get it.

This censorship is for the sheeple plain and simple you are just a pleb and don't get to know these things.
What ever happened to a Government "for the people by the people"?



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Edn
 


I'm sorry but that's like saying that if a burglar kicks my back door in then i should thank him for pointing out the flaw. He still broke the law and should be prosecuted.

Understand my position. I'm on Mckinnons side in the sense of him not being deported but he chose to commit a crime and so must be prosecuted for that crime. You example is pitiful. If someone stole the car in that circumstance then they still chose to commit the crime did they not? Just becuase you made it easy does not mean they shouldn't be prosecuted.

So by your example if a banker gives the code to the vault and someone takes all the money that is fine because it's the bankers fault. If someone hands a gun to someone and they shoot someone then thats not the fault of the person who shot the gun, it's the fault of the person that handed it to them.

Don't be so utterly stupid. You are blinded by your ideals. In the end he chose to commit a crime and so he should be prosecuted for it. However the sentence is far to extreme and he should not be deported. I have signed a pertition against his deportation so please don't confuse me with some extreme nut job who wants him in prisonf or life.

I approach this case quite logically, unlike you.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by atsbeliever
What a load of B.s. there's no way he caused that much damage I doubt he's that capable. He walked straight thru their unlocked doors. They probably had someone do the damage on purpose so they could make it even worse to show the media 'look how bad he was' Im not buying, sorry.



Originally posted by Helig

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
I don't think in the end he will be extradited to the U.S ... and I doubt the U.S will ever present the evidence needed to convict him on the serious charges..because the amount of damage they claimed never happened..


Go back and read the excellent post that explains the cleanup process and all the man-hours involved, now consider that the people fixing this mess likely pull in 60 grand a year (28$/hr) its not hard to see how the magic number was hit when so many systems needed to be pull off-line and checked over with a fine tooth comb.


Well if there were enough other hackers on there at the time, anyone could have done the damage, it was just he who got caught who ended up paying the price for not covering his tracks.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by tigermoff
 


See the problem is that McKinnon by his own admission was using canned exploits to get into these systems (which by definition makes him a Script Kiddie) so the chances of him being smart enough to discern legitimate network users online and external connections from the 'dozens of hackers' he claims were online are very thin at best. He bit the low-hanging fruit of federal networks and now hes facing serious consequences, his actions are no different than the dime-a-dozen defacers who jack entire servers full of websites and deface their content.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by OldMedic
Yep, another criminal (and he is a criminal) who claims to have discovered some secret AFTER he got caught.

He found NOTHING, he just went in and damaged computer SYSTEMS, NOT COMPUTERS.

Stop making excuses for criminals! I do not give a damn what his motives were, or how mentlly disturbed he is,(*SNIP*) this does NOT excuse his criminal conduct.

He frankly deserves whatever he gets. And people that make excuses for such criminal behavior should lose their computers too.
[edit on 5-12-2008 by NGC2736]


I do not know much about this story other than what I just read in the O.P.'s link; however, I could never, ever, imagine a criminal lying, could you? I too think this guy should get what he deserves. He engaged in illegal activities that were legitimate. We're not talking about some guy who did something he didn't know was wrong, or some guy that broke a law that was meaningless like jaywalking or something. No-one would be protecting this guy had he hacked into the children's hospital computers and caused 30 or 40 kids to die, yet because it is a government computer, people think it should be excused. Let's say he gets released and does it again (which would not be too uncommon from criminals now would it) and this time he hacks into a computer that controls logistics and perhaps one of your family members are in one of these unnecessary wars, that they have no choice in, and their unit cannot be resupplied and they all get killed? Would it be considered a crime then? Or if he hacked into your bank accounts and stole all your money, would it be a crime then?

I am no fan of the government, no more than anyone else here, but the fact is he did commit a crime and there is the potential for very serious harm from an action such as his. Furthermore after basically already being in jail or dealing with the courts for the last 7 years over this, I would say there lies enormous potential for him to do it again just out of spite or retribution.

Here is another question that no-one else seems to address. Why was he hacking U.S. computers and not U.K. computers? I would imagine that the U.K. has enough ufo information of their own stashed away in their computers, why not just hack into his own government's system? This act alone would lead me to believe that his story is not entirely truthful.

I know this does not seem to be the common feeling here and that because he hacked into a government's system that WE ALL despise, that many people think that his actions are ok. I do not.



posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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I bet they are hackers right know hacking into NSA, NASA, CIA, FBI, ect!

Did Gary say he knew something else or is that just a rumor? I think if he did, it would be out by now. I mean think of what he's been through the 6 years. It would be hard not to talk about it.




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